Judging the Fate We Face

[CMatt25]

Do Christians have the ability to judge who faces eternal death? Or only God? I was told here on this forum by a Catholic I would face eternal death if I disobeyed my bishop by committing a mortal sin as defined by the Church, example missing Mass on Nov 1 a defined Holy Day of Obligation by the Church if I did not repent. But the same poster also told me if I attended another church, the poster could not judge whether I would go to hell.

I understand the delicacies of semantics and code words sometimes used and how staring at eternal death in the face may not mean actually being condemned to it.

But I also read in catechism # 1860 where feelings can diminish the offense. So if one feels after praying about this for guidance by the Holy Spirit they are not committing mortal sin, then what?

 

[Publisher]

I have understood that there are certain conditions that have to be in effect for something to be a “mortal” sin in Catholic belief…and one of them is intent or knowing it was a sin and doing it anyway…how anyone could judge the intent of another is beyond me…unless there is some special chrism Catholics receive to allow them to look into the hearts and minds of others as well as have in depth knowledge into the heart and mind of God.

Only God is Judge…and it is He and He alone each of us must stand before at the Last Day…and thankfully and graciously He has spared me from that fearful responsibility of walking through the minds and hearts of other and being responsible for their eternal destiny…and unless Catholics have some special “powers”…He has graciously spared them from it as well.

 

[crazzeto]

We can judge an action as being good or intrinsically evil, but we can’t judge the hearts of anyone… Thus, no we can’t judge who will experience the second death.

 

[CMatt25]

I have understood that there are certain conditions that have to be in effect for something to be a “mortal” sin in Catholic belief…and one of them is intent or knowing it was a sin and doing it anyway…how anyone could judge the intent of another is beyond me…unless there is some special chrism Catholics receive to allow them to look into the hearts and minds of others as well as have in depth knowledge into the heart and mind of God.

Only God is Judge…and it is He and He alone each of us must stand before at the Last Day…and thankfully and graciously He has spared me from that fearful responsibility of walking through the minds and hearts of other and being responsible for their eternal destiny…and unless Catholics have some special “powers”…He has graciously spared them from it as well.

No I don’t believe we have any special powers to do those things any more than you have. We have the same greater power above.

 

[CMatt25]

We can judge an action as being good or intrinsically evil, but we can’t judge the hearts of anyone… Thus, no we can’t judge who will experience the second death.

I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying we can judge who faces the 2nd death but not who will experience it?

 

[regression]

My understanding is the Church teaches if one dies in the state of mortal sin, that person will go to hell. However, the Church has not said a specific person is in hell because no one can judge a person’s heart. The worst sinner could repent right before he dies and because of God’s wonderful mercy, that person could go to heaven.

On the flip side, the Church has said specific people are in heave (ie Saints), but I guess that is for another thread.

 

[crazzeto]

I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying we can judge who faces the 2nd death but not who will experience it?

No, I’m saying you can judge that murder is intrinsically evil, and there for anyone who commits murder commits an intrinsically evil act. We are not able to judge whether a person who has commited such an act will face the second death. We don’t know that they won’t make a perfect act of contrition, or otherwise repent and accept the Gospel. Most especially, we dont’ know what was in their hearts. All we can say is that we do know the act of murdering someone is intrinsically evil.

 

[crazzeto]

My understanding is the Church teaches if one dies in the state of mortal sin, that person will go to hell. However, the Church has not said a specific person is in hell because no one can judge a person’s heart. The worst sinner could repent right before he dies and because of God’s wonderful mercy, that person could go to heaven.

On the flip side, the Church has said specific people are in heave (ie Saints), but I guess that is for another thread.

There are certainly a select few individuals the church at the very least strongly believes are in hell, if not out right teach it. Judas Iscariot for instance, it’s most certainly accepted that he is in hell due to the Sin of dispair.

 

[CMatt25]

My understanding is the Church teaches if one dies in the state of mortal sin, that person will go to hell. However, the Church has not said a specific person is in hell because no one can judge a person’s heart. The worst sinner could repent right before he dies and because of God’s wonderful mercy, that person could go to heaven.

On the flip side, the Church has said specific people are in heave (ie Saints), but I guess that is for another thread.

Can a person repent directly to God then without Anointing of the Sick?

 

[regression]

This sums it up.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1861

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

So, for your original question, the answer is only God.

Do Christians have the ability to judge who faces eternal death? Or only God?

 

[crazzeto]

Can a person repent directly to God then without Anointing of the Sick?

Under normal means, it’s not possible. Under certain extrodinary means, it’s possible to make a perfect act of contrition just prior to death, and be saved. For instance someone who is martyred for professed faith in Jesus Christ will most certainly be a Saint, regardless of their past. Their professed faith, even unto their death serve as a perfect act of contrition.

One should not, however rely upon extrodenary means of salvation. Just because it may have worked for one person, doesn’t mean it’s going to work for you. Better to accept Christ now, receive the sacraments, and live as holy a life as you can.

 

[regression]

Can a person repent directly to God then without Anointing of the Sick?

Sure, if someone is about to die, is unable to receive the sacraments for whatever reason, and repents, God can forgive him. God can do anything. That isn’t to say we get rid of confession / anointing of the sick, why would you want to? God instituted these for us.

 

[regression]

Under normal means, it’s not possible. Under certain extrodinary means, it’s possible to make a perfect act of contrition just prior to death, and be saved. For instance someone who is martyred for professed faith in Jesus Christ will most certainly be a Saint, regardless of their past. Their professed faith, even unto their death serve as a perfect act of contrition.

One should not, however rely upon extrodenary means of salvation. Just because it may have worked for one person, doesn’t mean it’s going to work for you. Better to accept Christ now, receive the sacraments, and live as holy a life as you can.

I think we were posting at the same time

We said pretty much the same thing, but you worded it better.

 

[CMatt25]

This sums it up.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1861

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

So, for your original question, the answer is only God.

That seems to be sayng 2 things. If not repented, hell. But then in the next sentence saying leave it up to God.

 

[crazzeto]

I think we were posting at the same time

We said pretty much the same thing, but you worded it better.

lol, jinx buy me a coke?

 

[regression]

That seems to be sayng 2 things. If not repented, hell. But then in the next sentence saying leave it up to God.

I don’t see if saying two different things. If one dies in the state of mortal sin, he will go to hell. However, we cannot say a specific person is in hell because we cannot judge, only God can.

As an analogy, we know the rules for a game show, like the big wheel on Price is Right. However, we don’t know the outcome of the game until it is over. So, we know the rules on how to live (ie, don’t commit mortal sin, if you do, go to confession), but we do not know the outcome, only God does.

That isn’t a perfect example, but does it help?

 

[CMatt25]

Under normal means, it’s not possible. Under certain extrodinary means, it’s possible to make a perfect act of contrition just prior to death, and be saved. For instance someone who is martyred for professed faith in Jesus Christ will most certainly be a Saint, regardless of their past. Their professed faith, even unto their death serve as a perfect act of contrition.

One should not, however rely upon extrodenary means of salvation. Just because it may have worked for one person, doesn’t mean it’s going to work for you. Better to accept Christ now, receive the sacraments, and live as holy a life as you can.

Are you saying we can’t rely on God for our salvation?

 

[CMatt25]

I don’t see if saying two different things. If one dies in the state of mortal sin, he will go to hell. However, we cannot say a specific person is in hell because we cannot judge, only God can.

As an analogy, we know the rules for a game show, like the big wheel on Price is Right. However, we don’t know the outcome of the game until it is over. So, we know the rules on how to live (ie, don’t commit mortal sin, if you do, go to confession), but we do not know the outcome, only God does.

That isn’t a perfect example, but does it help?

Well yes I know it’s best to get the closest to the dollar on the Price is Right wheel. But even if I am the closest on the big wheel it doesn’t mean I am going to win the showcase.

 

[regression]

Well yes I know it’s best to get the closest to the dollar on the Price is Right wheel. But even if I am the closest on the big wheel it doesn’t mean I am going to win the showcase.

Yeah, that is why I said it wasn’t a perfect example . I was just trying to illustrate the quote from the CCC. We are given the rules to live by, but ultimately, God will decide our hearts. I don’t see that as saying two different things.

 

[regression]

Are you saying we can’t rely on God for our salvation?

In either case, going to confession or extraordinary means, God forgives us. In either case we rely on God, whether it be through the ministry of His Church or “going directly to God”, as you put it.