Judgmental Holy Roller Church Lady

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BouncingBall

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Well, this is possibly what I’ve become. I am trying to climb higher in my walk with Christ by trying hard(er) not to detract and sin against charity. With this backdrop, here is the dilemma.

I have a bff who haaaaaaaaates her boss. She tells me stuff about him, etc etc. She has another friend who is rich beyond belief. My bff tells her boss about her outings with the rich friend and then he reacts by saying ‘well hey you should introduce me to this friend and we can make money’. But my bff has no intention of introducing them and her rich friend doesn’t like my bff’s boss just from what she has heard about him from my bff.

So I told my bff that maybe she is baiting her boss by bringing up her personal life. She wants nothing to do with her co-workers because they treat her very shabbily. (One of them is into spiritism, placing curses on people, all that jazz.) So I told her, well if it disgusts you that your boss asks to meet your rich friend, maybe you are being passive-aggressive by telling him anything at all about the rich friend. Baiting him. I advised my bff that she climb higher (my words) and not talk about anything but work-related stuff to her boss. Why? Because no matter what a schmuck he may be, we still have to be charitable and behaving as such DOES pay off in the long run.

Somehow this stance of mine turned into my bff thinking that I am judging her and that I might possibly be taking her boss’ side. (Remember, she haaaaaaaaaaates her boss. I never hear anything good about him).

Now she is icing me out.

Did I do something wrong? Is it better for Catholics who are trying to live more like Jesus wants, to not advise others about sin, detraction, charity, and so forth? What should I do?
 
It is not appropriate to discuss one’s personal life at your workplace. Unless maybe you’re explaining unusual circumstances that might affect your work, such as your mother having a serious illness. Doing otherwise is asking for problems. Clearly, your friend is being uncharitable in gossiping about her boss. So she probably doesn’t get that you’re trying to be helpful, and may be angry at you. Just be sure you explain that you’re just trying to be helpful since you care about her, and make sure you have other friends.
 
Viki63 said:
It is not appropriate to discuss one’s personal life at your workplace. Unless maybe you’re explaining unusual circumstances that might affect your work, such as your mother having a serious illness. Doing otherwise is asking for problems. Clearly, your friend is being uncharitable in gossiping about her boss. So she probably doesn’t get that you’re trying to be helpful, and may be angry at you. Just be sure you explain that you’re just trying to be helpful since you care about her, and make sure you have other friends.
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That’s true; you’re right. I did not explain my reasoning to her; that is where I went wrong. I’m just worried because her ice-out sessions tend to last for a long time, and then I invariably get compared to her other friend, who she thinks is perfection personified.

Believe me, I have a lot of other friends, though! It’s just kind of a drag because we have been buds for like 25 years.
 
It sounds like your friend is not much of a friend at all. Actually, according to this question answered by Fr. Serpa, it sounds like her vicious gossip is in the realm of grave sin. I would not particularly care to be friends with someone who would speak so uncharitably of others, because that same person could easily tarnish your reputation in the same way.
 
GracedUpon said:
It sounds like your friend is not much of a friend at all. Actually, according to this question answered by Fr. Serpa, it sounds like her vicious gossip is in the realm of grave sin. I would not particularly care to be friends with someone who would speak so uncharitably of others, because that same person could easily tarnish your reputation in the same way.
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I know that it is a sin. And therefore, it bugs me that no one (OK well very few) actually wants to hear sound, Christian advice so they can act on it. I didn’t used to want to, but once I started, I noticed the results.

I can’t really fault her for talking about her boss; I mean we are probably detracting my bff right now LOL just by discussing my problem! But it seemed illogical to me for my bff to become equally as jerky as her boss, by baiting him with these extra-curricular outings. I know it’s lashing out in self-defense, in a way. I guess I started to feel sorry for him and she understood it as me taking her boss’ side.

I guess the command is ‘love your enemies’, not ‘command your friends to love their enemies.’
 
Part of being a good friend is telling them what they need to hear versus what they want to hear. It’s one thing to let off steam, and talk about what’s bothering you, and another to keep bringing it up over and over and doing nothing about it. I am sure he was joking about meeting this friend, but becuase she dislikes him so much she likely takes everything he sais in the worst possible way.
I agree with you, why would you engage in conversation about your personal life with someone you can’t stand?
 
Did I do something wrong? Is it better for Catholics who are trying to live more like Jesus wants, to not advise others about sin, detraction, charity, and so forth? What should I do?
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My suggestion, in the future offer her baby-step solutions to the problems that she’s creating in her work situation.

Some people only learn by banging their heads against brick walls.

Advice like, “Try banging your head here, on something not as strong as baked clay.”

Sounds to me like you’re her go-to-person who is willing to listen to her problems. Most of these people don’t want outside advice, they prefer to continue putting more bruises on their own foreheads.
 
Barbkw said:
My suggestion, in the future offer her baby-step solutions to the problems that she’s creating in her work situation.

Some people only learn by banging their heads against brick walls.

Advice like, “Try banging your head here, on something not as strong as baked clay.”

Sounds to me like you’re her go-to-person who is willing to listen to her problems. Most of these people don’t want outside advice, they prefer to continue putting more bruises on their own foreheads.
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True. Well if she starts talking to me again, I will try that (the baby-step solutions).

And @Petitfleur, THAT is exactly my point. Why talk about personal life with someone you dislike? I never thought about it, that maybe her boss is just joking.

See, this is why the Internet is so awesome. Sound advice, lickety-split. Thank you guys so much!
 
OP, what you said is not something her Buddhist friend might not have also said, or her secular humanist friend, or her Alcoholics Anonymous friend…that is, that doing anything out of a habitual need to indulge negative thoughts about another person is self-damaging, while avoiding such behavior and thinking truly is a better way to live. IOW, she is flunking “Higher Living 101” on a world-wide scale.

You didn’t say that she was baiting him or being passive aggressive. You never said he was a nice person or that he deserved to have her like him. You asked her to consider that “if it disgusts you that your boss asks to meet your rich friend, maybe you are being passive-aggressive by telling him anything at all about the rich friend. Baiting him”. Then you suggested that there was a higher path than obsessing about how to bring misery to her enemies. It doesn’t take St. Francis to come to that conclusion.

You have to accept that she is putting a lot of herself into this odd little war she’s waging. You’ve said your piece about it, and she’s undoubtedly gotten the message, even if she doesn’t want to hear it. Now you can just change the subject whenever the topic of her boss comes up. If she doesn’t like that and doesn’t want to be around people who rain on that parade by asking not to hear about it, then let her go until she comes to her senses.

I like the suggestion that maybe it is her boss that is playing her. It may not be true, but the idea that her attempt at tormenting her enemies was met with amusement could stop the behavior, even if it doesn’t stop the enmity itself.
 
You are hearing her gossip. She is gossiping to her boss about her bff, to the bff about her boss, and to you about both of them! And you have now carried the tale to us! See how bad gossip can be?

😦

Change the subject when she starts this. I mean, REALLY change the subject. Like, she says, “Oh, I told my boss XYZ today and he said…” and you say, “Hey, let’s go to Chik-fil-A and get a peppermint chocolate chip shake before they are all gone!” Not a great example, but DO NOT LISTEN to the gossip. Don’t give advice, don’t provide a shoulder to cry on or an ear, just stop it whenever it starts.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
You are hearing her gossip. She is gossiping to her boss about her bff, to the bff about her boss, and to you about both of them! And you have now carried the tale to us! See how bad gossip can be?

😦

Change the subject when she starts this. I mean, REALLY change the subject. Like, she says, “Oh, I told my boss XYZ today and he said…” and you say, “Hey, let’s go to Chik-fil-A and get a peppermint chocolate chip shake before they are all gone!” Not a great example, but DO NOT LISTEN to the gossip. Don’t give advice, don’t provide a shoulder to cry on or an ear, just stop it whenever it starts.
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Gossip is definitely bad. When I’ve been on the receiving end of it in the recent past, I do change the subject. I am just distraught that, in this situation, I am getting iced out for trying to suggest that she lead life on a higher plane.
 
BouncingBall said:
Gossip is definitely bad. When I’ve been on the receiving end of it in the recent past, I do change the subject. I am just distraught that, in this situation, I am getting iced out for trying to suggest that she lead life on a higher plane.
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Your choice was to be complicit by your silence or to be punished for your objection. You chose well. 👍
 
BouncingBall said:
Sigh. Jesus didn’t say it would be easy, did He?
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No. If anything, He predicted exactly what you’re getting. Hang in there…your friend may yet see that she’s putting you through a bad time, and for bad reasons. People who run up on or have a near miss with the rocks can come to appreciate light houses!
 
TheRealJuliane said:
You are hearing her gossip. She is gossiping to her boss about her bff, to the bff about her boss, and to you about both of them! And you have now carried the tale to us! See how bad gossip can be?

😦
.
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Brilliant point. I wish more people thought like this.

Gossip is brutal. Fair warning-what goes around comes around. Keep running your mouth about others behind their back, you’ll find yourself in trouble.
 
Could it be that your friend really doesn’t hate her boss? Second graders say, “I HATE him!” but then obviously show that they like the person in question once that person pulls said second grader into his conversation or activities.

After 25 years of working at the same job, seeing crowds (of co-workers, and supervisors, too) come and go, I’m convinced that those who bother to attempt conversation with someone they claim to dislike are really disappointed, hurt, or angry because that person hasn’t given them the attention that, consciously or unconsciously, they think they need.

When people are truly teed off, repulsed, annoyed, angered, or disgusted by someone, they steer clear of that individual and talk to him/her no more than is necessary to conduct the job. They may also sound off ad nauseum to their closest friends about their strong dislike for the person who infuriates them, but they don’t engage in idle chit-chat with that person, unless it’s an occasion to make that person look like a fool in front of others.

I think that your friend would be thrilled to have her boss pay attention to her, judging by what I’ve seen in my workplace.

I agree that she’s no great loss as a friend. Were it I, I’d not attempt to regain her friendship, since she’s apparently made it clear over the years that if she feels slighted she’ll punish you by icing away from you. I’d be friendly in return to any overtures by her, but I wouldn’t initiate any get-togethers, and I probably wouldn’t agree to do things or go places with her, preferring only to communicate by phone or a happenstance bumping into each other.

As for commenting to friends about their actions or words to others (that don’t involve you directly), play it by ear and your conscience. Sometimes we must say something or we can’t live with ourselves, even if we know it means the end of the relationship before we say it. Other times, we need to weigh what we hope to expect by our statements against the possibility of a severed friendship, and whether we can accomplish more good from commenting now or by our comments and examples that we demonstrate to our friend as time passes.

You must be aware, however, that any time you attempt to point out another’s shortcomings, they’re most likely going to be hurt, at the least, and angry, at the most, so your choice of words is crucial, both in conveying what you mean and in an effort to keep feathers unruffled.

“Baiting” has an ugly connotation (as in the common “bait and switch” tactic used by unscrupulous retailers), I think, although it may be used to legitimately and accurately describe what she did. To laugh and say, “Linda! Shame on you! You were playing with his mind!” might have resulted in her laughter, too, and her admission that, yeah, she did, and she’d probably laugh more about it. Laughter and rather exaggerated exclamations that didn’t cause immediate hurt feelings still would have gotten the point across. After the zinger comments and laughter had died down, a “Seriously, though, if you truly don’t like any thing about this man, don’t you think you’re wasting a lot of time bothering to talk to him?” (or some such statement) might have brought levity and an opportunity for her to think about her comments, actions, and motivation.

I know: what’s done is done. I’m merely trying to give an example of how a difference in wording might result in a different set of circumstances.

Don’t worry about it, Sugar! In the overall picture of life, it’s merely an ink dot. Just be true to your conscience so you won’t be disappointed in yourself.

Best wishes to you.
 
Thanks, you guys. Shoutout to Easterjoy, Barbkw, Petitfleru, Rascalking and Qwestions.

I shall take my own medicine. I will pray that God bless her and bring her peace.
 
BouncingBall said:
Thanks, you guys. Shoutout to Easterjoy, Barbkw, Petitfleru, Rascalking and Qwestions.

I shall take my own medicine. I will pray that God bless her and bring her peace.
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You rock. Best answer EVER to a thread.

God bless you-welcome to the forums and I hope you stay around.
 
BouncingBall said:
Gossip is definitely bad. When I’ve been on the receiving end of it in the recent past, I do change the subject. I am just distraught that, in this situation, I am getting iced out for trying to suggest that she lead life on a higher plane.
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I got burned 2nd hand by gossip. Sooner or later, it comes back to bite you, even if you think you are doing a good deed by listening.

I was listening to a bunch of malcontent moms whose kids weren’t doing very well in a particular teacher’s class (5th grade). My son was doing fine, and I suspected that it was a case of these moms not being able to see that their kids had a problem, not the teacher. The teacher was a right-brained, not too organized person, very creative, quite a good teacher really, but she made a rather large target. I would listen and try to sway the conversation into “Well maybe you could consider having your child tested for ADD, etc.” One mom said her daughter took HOURS to do homework, when it wasn’t much at all, and that was a red flag. But it was to no avail, they kept on complaining and agitating.

Well I got included on their group emails, and they were quite nasty about the teacher. Eventually, some of these emails found their way to the teacher, and I was tarred right along with the others, even though I was not in agreement. The teacher and I had had a good relationship up to that point and I really liked her.

She ended up quitting, and the rest of the school year was taught by a substitute teacher. I never forgot my lesson and now, if people start gossiping, I RUN, not walk, in the other direction.
 
Bouncing…I am sorry you are going through this. It’s not fun when your not getting along with friends.
 
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