Jungian Pyschology and Catholic Mysticism

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St_Aloysius

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I have a thread going in which I asked for recommended readings from and on various saints and blesseds who adopted a mystical spiritual path, but I thought this deserved a second thread.

I was introduced by my mentor to a book by an author named Dave Richo, a former Catholic priest whose work is very Jungian and global in nature.

I must admit: I have been so blown away by his book Shadow Dance (and some of his various other works) that it’s been hard for me to find something new now. His works need to be absorbed and reabsorbed! I look at a lot of Catholic literature now and must admit, aside from first-hand accounts from the saints, find much of it dull at times, like it’s trapped in a cage of dishonest “orthodoxy” (whereas I’d take honest heresy over that any day of the week) and seems somehow forced and doesn’t really deal with the whole person–just parts.

I was wondering if there are any works out there, perhaps Jungian in nature, that deal with the whole-person and spirituality, are very global, very universal, in nature, that are super reads.

Thanks!
 
Perhaps instead you might want to check into this book:

Catholics and the New Age:
How Good People Are Being Drawn into Jungian Psychology,
the Enneagram, and the Age of Aquarius
by Fr. Mitch Pacwa

I recommend sticking with what the saints have to say on the topic of mysticism.
 
St_Aloysius said:
I have a thread going in which I asked for recommended readings from and on various saints and blesseds who adopted a mystical spiritual path, but I thought this deserved a second thread.

I was introduced by my mentor to a book by an author named Dave Richo, a former Catholic priest whose work is very Jungian and global in nature.

I must admit: I have been so blown away by his book Shadow Dance (and some of his various other works) that it’s been hard for me to find something new now. His works need to be absorbed and reabsorbed! I look at a lot of Catholic literature now and must admit, aside from first-hand accounts from the saints, find much of it dull at times, like it’s trapped in a cage of dishonest “orthodoxy” (whereas I’d take honest heresy over that any day of the week) and seems somehow forced and doesn’t really deal with the whole person–just parts.

I was wondering if there are any works out there, perhaps Jungian in nature, that deal with the whole-person and spirituality, are very global, very universal, in nature, that are super reads.

Thanks!
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you may want to consider the late Bishop Fulton Sheen- he seemed to have a keen insight to psycology and catholicism.
 
Please confine your reading to the Bible, Butler’s Lives of the Saints, or Fox’s Book of Martyrs. Anything else might lead you astray. 🙂
 
Figaro_Jones said:
Please confine your reading to the Bible, Butler’s Lives of the Saints, or Fox’s Book of Martyrs. Anything else might lead you astray. 🙂
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Is there some reason you feel the need to inject anti-Catholic sarcasm into threads in a Catholic Spirituality forum? How about take your little routine over to the non-Catholic religions forum. It is not appreciated here where people are asking sincere questions about how to grow in their CATHOLIC faith. :mad:
 
I think psychology and theology should walk hand in hand…and if they dont, then I know something is amiss somewhere in either one. I know which one I would be more inclined to lean towards anyway at this point as the various sciences continue their search for truth…bias is a strange thing and we are all biased…I read somewhere and I really like it: Information in, information out/garbage in, garbage out…
trapped in a cage of dishonest “orthodoxy” (whereas I’d take honest heresy over that any day of the week)
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Neither appeal to me…both have abandoned truth or at very least to be charitable stopped short of truth…
must admit: I have been so blown away by his book Shadow Dance (and some of his various other works) that it’s been hard for me to find something new now. His works need to be absorbed and reabsorbed! I look at a lot of Catholic literature now and must admit, aside from first-hand accounts from the saints, find much of it dull at times, like it’s trapped in a cage of dishonest “orthodoxy” (whereas I’d take honest heresy over that any day of the week) and seems somehow forced and doesn’t really deal with the whole person–just parts.
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Fair enough…a personal to you experience and assessment and notion, and not a universal truth proclaimed, is it?..something like I can defend with my life your right to say it, while not necessarily therefore agreeing with you;) …

I read somewhere “everyone has the right to experience reality from their own ground of being”. Mind you not a Church declaration I know…I think I might have picked it up in book on psychlogy:shrug: Obviously this book (reality) and what it contains has spoken to your own ground of being?..
Guess I’m trying to make the point that the parameters of Catholic Spirituality might be broader than any one person (you, for instance) might envision.
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The notion that challenging texts and authors can’t be read with profit by reasonable people is absurd.
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“Might” being operative? Of course challenging texts and authors can be read by some people to profit…providing the challenger has not got in mind the profit the other should draw.😉
​

Blessings and regards…Barb:)
 
beckycmarie said:
Is there some reason you feel the need to inject anti-Catholic sarcasm into threads in a Catholic Spirituality forum? How about take your little routine over to the non-Catholic religions forum. It is not appreciated here where people are asking sincere questions about how to grow in their CATHOLIC faith. :mad:
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Guess I’m trying to make the point that the parameters of Catholic Spirituality might be broader than any one person (you, for instance) might envision.

The notion that challenging texts and authors can’t be read with profit by reasonable people is absurd.
 
When it comes to reading such books, an author’s opinion is only as valuable as far as it matches the truth.

When one tries to “broaden one’s horizons” by dabbling in materials that are contrary to Catholic teaching, then one is likely to be led astray.
 
St_Aloysius,
have you read Thomas Merton’s works?

New Seeds of Contemplation and No Man Is an Island are my two favorites.

I also like Fr. Thomas Keating?

Also there’s Teilhard de Chardin, but you have to get the right translation, or else it can be dry.

Jim
 
beckycmarie said:
When it comes to reading such books, an author’s opinion is only as valuable as far as it matches the truth.
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Give thinking people the right to take a look and decide for themselves. God gave us brains and rationality for just such work.
beckycmarie said:
When one tries to “broaden one’s horizons” by dabbling in materials that are contrary to Catholic teaching, then one is likely to be led astray.
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(a) You’re assuming that the book he’s talking about is “contrary to Catholic thinking.” I guess you’ve read it? (b) It’s a pretty fragile “faith” that can’t weather a little contrariness. How can you even read a newspaper, if that’s your criteria?

There’s an ugly strain of anti-intellectualism running through much “orthodox” opinion these days. It smacks of narrowness, of fear, and of disrespect for our God-given rational capacities. If your faith is genuine and true, it ought to be sturdy enough to put side-by-side with any contrasting views.

I just don’t have any patience for such book-burning attitudes.
 
Hi Jim…I have two books - one is a series of many different thoughts of Teilhard de Chardin compiled into a book, the other has heaps of pictures and tells his life story and is somewhere in this mess I call a library, title escapes me…I really like much of what he has to say. I think his sister collated and tried, or indeed did, publish his works after he died in Paris in a flat, impoverished and alone, abandoned by his Order, the Jesuits, on Easter Sunday I think it was as he had hoped, that he would die on Easter Sunday. It was I think some sort of major work he really hoped to see published in his lifetime, but of course never did - I think it was supressed if memory serves. My memory is not good. And Thomas Merton along with Anthony de Mello are two of my favourite authors, although I don’t necessarily adhere to every single word an author may write. They had many important things to say and share I think - to me anyway…all the above authors. I have five cassette tapes here of Thomas Merton addressing novices in Gethsemane Monastery.

Amongst many things Anthony de Mello wrote that were very thought provoking indeed and most often also very funny, I particularly like this one on “Authority”

A boy is sitting in a picture theatre with a very tall man sitting in front of him…and he can’t see the screen.

The man turns around to him “Can you see, sonny?”

“No, sir, I am sorry, but I cannot see”

“Oh that’s ok…if you just laugh when I laugh, you will be fine”
 
Figaro_Jones said:
Give thinking people the right to take a look and decide for themselves. God gave us brains and rationality for just such work.

(a) You’re assuming that the book he’s talking about is “contrary to Catholic thinking.” I guess you’ve read it? (b) It’s a pretty fragile “faith” that can’t weather a little contrariness. How can you even read a newspaper, if that’s your criteria?

There’s an ugly strain of anti-intellectualism running through much “orthodox” opinion these days. It smacks of narrowness, of fear, and of disrespect for our God-given rational capacities. If your faith is genuine and true, it ought to be sturdy enough to put side-by-side with any contrasting views.

I just don’t have any patience for such book-burning attitudes.
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Figaro,

The OP has an interest in Christian mysticism, and is asking about using Jung as a sort of spiritual direction. I am pointing out that this is not such a good idea based on my background knowledge of Jung compared to Catholic teachings.

If someone wants to read Jung for intellectual purposes, that is one thing. But the OP is looking into using Jung’s teachings to further his spiritual growth, which is not a good idea.

You are confusing the issue by twisting a spiritual direction question into a debate on intellectual freedom.
 
Thank you beckycmarie for raising the point of the question in the OP.
I was wondering if there are any works out there, perhaps Jungian in nature, that deal with the whole-person and spirituality, are very global, very universal, in nature, that are super reads.
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Hi St. Aloysuis…Sorry, but I have never read Jung I dont think and thus cannot insight at all “Jungian in nature”. I can’t be of any help at all in addressing your question. Certainly Merton, de Mello and de Chardin make thoughtful reading and to my mind Merton and de Mello do make attempts to address the whole person psychology included - de Mello (Jesuit) to a lesser degree perhaps I think than Merton, who was a Benedictine monk and interested in the mystical per se and in the Catholic tradition in the main. He did have much interest in Buddhism in the later period of his life. His interest was more in mysticism and contemplative prayer and living…although he certainly regarded psychology as being intrinsic to the person. Teillhard de Chardin who was a Jesuit priest and geologist certainly has a global and universal outlook. All three I have read about in the context of “mystic and mystical, mysticism” all depends on one’s definition I think. Certainly de Chardin is the most complex in thought at times. All three are or were questionable in certain areas by The Church - I dont try to keep up with these things unless I happen to fall over something pertinent. Rather than a book that is a good read, you may need to read a few and arrive at your own conclusions. God bless you in your seeking…Blessings and regards…Barb:)
 
beckycmarie said:
+1

His Guide to Contentment is a good read.
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the guide to contentment is a great example of how the intergration of psycoloogical principals and the catholic understandiong of the virtues works together- you have to look for it , though, since bishop sheen writes it in a very easy to read way that a 10 year old would be able to understand, so he doesn’t really cite his sources too much. great aid spiritually thaough!

A note to the whole “mysticism” topic going on here: I am not sure that the definition is really defined in the discussion. the title “mystic” can have a variety of meaning depending on what you mean. the general usage is ment to denote a person who is united to God through love and submission to the divine will. it can be as varied as st. francis to st thomas to st john to st therese- all very different examples of mysticism.
 
beckycmarie said:
Figaro,

The OP has an interest in Christian mysticism, and is asking about using Jung as a sort of spiritual direction. I am pointing out that this is not such a good idea based on my background knowledge of Jung compared to Catholic teachings.

If someone wants to read Jung for intellectual purposes, that is one thing. But the OP is looking into using Jung’s teachings to further his spiritual growth, which is not a good idea.

You are confusing the issue by twisting a spiritual direction question into a debate on intellectual freedom.
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It’s just possible, though, that the bounds of Catholic spirituality and mysticism as you (or even Mitch Pacwa) understand them may not encompass the entire body of useful insight on the topic.
 
Fr. Mitch Pacwa is indeed a very good source on Jung. If you have a credit card and a high-speed connection, you can listen to this excellent talk of his for only a dollar: keepthefaith.org/detail.aspx?ID=491

Even if you don’t agree with the conclusions Fr. Mitch comes to, I believe the talk is very fair and that he has studied Jung very thoroughly.
 
I read some of Merton the other day and was mesmerized!

His works were just incredible. A Sister from my parish that is acting as my spiritual director now loves him and gave me a booklet of excerpts from his various works. She is also a fan of St. John of the Cross, and I must say I am too now. The Dark Night of the Soul is on my must-read list now. She is also an avid fan of Jung.

She did not actually introduce me to him. It was, rather, a “synchronicity,” so to speak.

I’m aware that Jung is not always orthodox (then again, neither is Voltaire and I adore him and feel that in various ways he has helped me in my spirituality, interestingly enough). I am by no means a believer in astrology, though I understand why the human pysche is so prone to look toward the stars for guidance. He also has no problem calling God a metaphor for the universal Self, and angels and demons metaphors for various warring pyschic and spiritual realities. I have no problem with this. It is supremely sensible and orthodox when one thinks about it. He does, however, at times assert the impersonal nature of the Self–that is, God. Here I dissent.

I am far from being afraid to incorporate truths from various sources into my own spirituality–but never at the expense of my Catholic faith. As Rumi once said, all Truth is but a mirror in God’s hands that one day dropped and broke into a million shards. Men from all ends of the earth ran to collect each just one shard, and then proceeded to say: “I have the truth!”

Catholicism to me represents a fuller truth. Still… I also recognize and embrace the noble and beautiful aspects of various other religious traditions as being entirely complementary to my own, in keeping with Vatican II.

I needn’t be Muslim to be moved by holy Qur’an’s truth or poeticism; Buddhist to be aspiring toward nonviolence and love; to be a Deist to find humor and wit (and even truth) within Voltaire’s works; etc.

I need only be confident enough in my own faith as a Catholic Christian to explore and learn from these various sources, and to never cease questioning things, even–no, especially–the Church to which I look for guidance.
 
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