Just after seeing Spotlight

[Luvz2travel]

Now you can see “Risen,” which I believe was the other film you were considering. That may have a more beneficial effect on you although I haven’t seen either film.

Risen was really good. I wouldn’t go see Spotlight or anything else which is negative about the church. I’m really bored with all the anti-Catholic or evil nun or priest senarios. They hold no interest for me. I also recommend “Marie’s Story” about a dying nun who teaches a deaf and blind girl it’s a lovely story and very entertaining.

 

[Leo2014]

Risen was really good. I wouldn’t go see Spotlight or anything else which is negative about the church. I’m really bored with all the anti-Catholic or evil nun or priest senarios. They hold no interest for me. I also recommend “Marie’s Story” about a dying nun who teaches a deaf and blind girl it’s a lovely story and very entertaining.

Wow, if that isn’t putting your head in the sand.

I think it’s a poor reflection of all us Catholics if we deny the horrible events that had taken place. We grow when we strengthen our weakness, which both you and I have many of them. I agree with you, we are directed to spread the Word of the Lord. But also, we must seek repentance and prayer as we move forward from events while not forgetting the lessons learned. We need to be a guiding light and not a source of ridicule…

Now go and share with your neighbors your movie interest. As Catholics we need to do a better job evangelizing.

 

[gracepoole]

I guess I was more troubled with the information in the movie that most of those reporters were lapsed Catholics.

I must be misunderstanding you. You’re more troubled that the reporters were lapsed Catholics than the knowledge that 70+ priests in the diocese molested children?

In one scene the reporter talking about being sick to go to Church when he knew what he knew, like the problem was the fault of the whole Church and not with some priests in the Church and authorities who enabled them.

I can well understand the feeling of sickness as a result of this controversy that might come over a Catholic when attending Mass. To violate the innocence of children is sickening. While I still attend Mass and I love my parish priests, I feel for those who feel betrayed by those meant to be held to a higher standard. Multiple princes of the Church – those one step below the pope – permitted an epidemic of sexual abuse. Once that happens, it requires an extra leap of faith to trust anyone in the hierarchy. I may love my parish priests but I would never permit a priest (or a teacher or a coach or…) to be alone with my child now.

Also, what bothered me is when they said about the abused----“Well, they are lucky, they are still living” that made it sound like the Church had some abusers killed so they would not talk.

No, that’s not what was suggested.

But I think they were talking about the ones who killed themselves because they had been abused.

Yes, that’s what was suggested.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Any abuse is horrendous, but it should be remembered that Catholic priests have committed abuse at a lower rate than school teachers, ministers of other religions, and men in the general public. It has been blown out of proportion by the media.
Here is a site of interest: I don’t know how accurate it is, but I would tend to believe it before a Hollywood movie, which after all is designed to raise our ire. Catholic sex abuse facts.

.

We have long, long passed the point where we should cite, let alone take any consolation in, such comparative statistics. And everything in the movie is a documented fact presented in a non-sensationalistic way. This wasn’t “Hollywood;” it was, sadly, Boston.

 

[Viki63]

We have long, long passed the point where we should cite, let alone take any consolation in, such comparative statistics. And everything in the movie is a documented fact presented in a non-sensationalistic way. This wasn’t “Hollywood;” it was, sadly, Boston.

Why should we not cite such statistics? They are correct.
Priests are human beings and as such, some are serious sinners, like any other class of men. The reason I think such statistics are worth citing is that many people think only priests are molesters. Some people believe that MOST priests are sexual predators;
I was just trying to convey that priests are actually less likely than teachers, for example, to be offenders.
We have the right to stand up for our priests, most of whom are good and holy men.

.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Why should we not cite such statistics? They are correct.
Priests are human beings and as such, some are serious sinners, like any other class of men. The reason I think such statistics are worth citing is that many people think only priests are molesters. Some people believe that MOST priests are sexual predators;
I was just trying to convey that priests are actually less likely than teachers, for example, to be offenders.
We have the right to stand up for our priests, most of whom are good and holy men.

.

“… that priests are actually less likely” is the problem. Citing such statistics, however accurate they may be, smacks of a defensiveness, deflection, and a circle-the-wagons mindset that makes it all too easy - as recent history has shown - to avoid fully confronting all aspects of this horrible situation.

 

[dixieagle]

During that time 10,667 minors reported sexual abuse by 4,392 clergy in the USA.
And who knows how many never reported it.

But if the numbers don’t strike a person as horrendous, perhaps what might is the knowledge that–unlike a school teacher or an athletic coach–these children believed the priests were their link to God and heaven…and they entrusted these abusers with their eternal souls.

.

And that is the crux of the matter, that makes the scandal so horrific.

 

[dixieagle]

The film isn’t “negative” about the church, nor is it anti-Catholic.

It is honest, that is all–and it presents the facts of what happened.

Refusing to look at the problems of something that is such a profound part of one’s life is not only unwise, IMO, it’s turning away from the truth.

But…if it doesn’t interest you and it bores, you…well then…

.

Agreed. I grew up in Boston. It turns out that two of the 3 priests in my childhood parish were molesting children, as did the priest who presided at my sister’s wedding. It is a disturbing - but necessary - truth to face.

 

[HB11]

:thumbsup:In my Parish being an usher, choir member , etc requires the class, a background check and signing a code of conduct form.
Yes at that time it was thought to be cured. When the subject is bought up I always tell folks that. I also ask them if their kids are in sports, scouts, and whatever and inquire if they check out people running it.

I wish the film had followed up with what the Church is doing now to stop the abuse. Veritas training for anyone who has any work with kids in the least bit. It was thought at the time these men could be cured but we now know they can’t.

 

[7_Sorrows]

And that is the crux of the matter, that makes the scandal so horrific.

Agreed! :sad_yes:

 

[Leo2014]

Any abuse is horrendous, but it should be remembered that Catholic priests have committed abuse at a lower rate than school teachers, ministers of other religions, and men in the general public. It has been blown out of proportion by the media.
Here is a site of interest: I don’t know how accurate it is, but I would tend to believe it before a Hollywood movie, which after all is designed to raise our ire. Catholic sex abuse facts.
.

I am actually sadden to read your referenced website. That site has such a poor Alexa rating that I think your link alone helped bring over the few people that have actually viewed the content. But that is the freedom of the Internet; there are many sites out there attempting to propagate negative messages and your link is one of them.

One of our foundational beliefs is that Our Lord entrusted Saint Peter with leading His sheep. A Priest has a responsibility to continue the lineage and profess to the Word and propagate that message to the people he shepherds. Sadly in this case, there were many that seek the guidance of their local Priest only to encounter these evil misdeeds.

The most vexing issue is the way the Church handled these issues when they raised. There are thousands of documented cases involving the clergy of the Church. But rather than dealing with the predators, they simply transferred them to another Parish where they could continue with their crimes. There is written evidence of Cardinal Law siding with his perpetrators while being stoic to the victims of the crimes even after knowing in advance of the horrible misdeeds. Many of the victims were ignored, guilt-ridden into staying quiet or when they sued, they were required to sign a confidentiality agreement as part of the settlement. Never once during that period, did the Church involve local law enforcement.

Therefore, because others sins does that eradicate my sins? That is how preposterous your argument sounds. You want to tell the victim’s; well if it wasn’t your Priest, it could have been your teacher!

Sadly, there are many that left the Church. There are many with negative views of the clergy. However, without confronting these issues, the process of repentance cannot proceed. We need to pray for forgiveness and the strengthening of our Church leaders.

 

[dixieagle]

I am actually sadden to read your referenced website. That site has such a poor Alexa rating that I think your link alone helped bring over the few people that have actually viewed the content. But that is the freedom of the Internet; there are many sites out there attempting to propagate negative messages and your link is one of them.

One of our foundational beliefs is that Our Lord entrusted Saint Peter with leading His sheep. A Priest has a responsibility to continue the lineage and profess to the Word and propagate that message to the people he shepherds. Sadly in this case, there were many that seek the guidance of their local Priest only to encounter these evil misdeeds.

The most vexing issue is the way the Church handled these issues when they raised. There are thousands of documented cases involving the clergy of the Church. But rather than dealing with the predators, they simply transferred them to another Parish where they could continue with their crimes. There is written evidence of Cardinal Law siding with his perpetrators while being stoic to the victims of the crimes even after knowing in advance of the horrible misdeeds. Many of the victims were ignored, guilt-ridden into staying quiet or when they sued, they were required to sign a confidentiality agreement as part of the settlement. Never once during that period, did the Church involve local law enforcement.

Therefore, because others sins does that eradicate my sins? That is how preposterous your argument sounds. You want to tell the victim’s; well if it wasn’t your Priest, it could have been your teacher!

Sadly, there are many that left the Church. There are many with negative views of the clergy. However, without confronting these issues, the process of repentance cannot proceed. We need to pray for forgiveness and the strengthening of our Church leaders.

 

[Russell_SA]

As an outsider of the religion, let me give you view from that angle. Any organization that does not allow the rule of law to be applied to its leadership is not living up to its adult responsibilities in any sense of the word. The rule of law and the applicability of that law and its consequences applies to everyone equally. If the CC would hand over its priests and documentation about its complicity on this, and be held accountable in a legal sense, then the healing can begin and the trust as well. But the institution is still taking care of its own regardless of the how the law applies to the rest of the governed. This is not taking responsibility the CC played in the institutional rape of people, still today. It’s gotten so bad from an outside view, that the UN Human Rights council is calling out the institution still. How many good works does it take to not be held accountable for child rape? I don’t know that equation but the CC seems to have it down. How much social power does an organization get before it can not be held accountable in any court system in the world? How is a punishment of a life time of prayer and penitence the response to child rape? This outrage is all on the institution, not on individual priests. Until the institution is accounted for, then there can be trust earned.

 

[Leo2014]

As an outsider of the religion, let me give you view from that angle. Any organization that does not allow the rule of law to be applied to its leadership is not living up to its adult responsibilities in any sense of the word. The rule of law and the applicability of that law and its consequences applies to everyone equally.

Unfortunately, what you are pontificating is an ideology that is never really applied evenly in practice. We have seen so many examples where that has been the case. However, I don’t want to minimize the tragedy that took place.

The Church is a multi-national organization; therefore which laws are you stating are applicable? There is no counsel that would advise their client(s) to simply “hand-over” evidence. A client could have the best intentions but find themselves exposed to additional litigations and entanglements that are unforeseen. Remember were dealing with issues that could set a precedence on a multi-nation level. Truly not advisable.

Another precedence that adds to the complexity is allowing individuals to step forward after decades have past. I don’t know the statistic, but not every injustice is amended with some type of amicable solution. However, these days the only recourse we find the plaintiff willing to agree with are those with a financial settlement. Which you know that in the end…only the legal counsel comes out ahead.

In regards to the Church, retributions have been paid - $650 million in my diocese alone. There are priest that have stood trial. The topic is more openly addressed both within the Church and in the media. Healing will take a life time and we can never return to the time of innocence.

The concern I see is when people start to eradicate the past by “adjusting” the facts or making the circumstance trivial. I saw the movie (Spotlight), we can argue the details but the point is that these events did take place. Yes we should be ashamed, but we should now be more vigilant regarding any events we find suspicious.

The Lord ask each of us to seek repentance and to offer forgiveness. That is easier said than done…