Just Because I'm Catholic...

[hoosierdaddy]

Cool Jared.

I myself may get rather passionate and have my convictions but I appreciate this site and the opportunity to talk to Catholics about what they believe. Unlike that moderator you mention I am not even close to being afraid to talk to Catholics, even when I passionately disagree with them.

 

[Allweather]

Now, I understand that the church put together the Bible. But they were guided by the Holy Spirit so they aren’t really the authority, the authority is the Bible itself. And even if I am wrong, this still doesn’t prove apostolic succession or that priests are always right, etc. Because I still believe that some of the things the catholic church teaches is way out there. But this article has given me something to think about.

Daddy, priests are not always right, nor does the Church claim that they are.

About 20 years ago I was a non-denom fundamentalist who moved Home. Lots of things in the Church seemed “out there” to me then, just as they do to you now. All my indoctrination had been Protestant, some denominational, some non-denom, but all Protestant, and mostly anti-Catholic. It takes time, years, to overcome years of religious indoctrination. If you are being led to come Home, understand that some things Catholic will continue to seem “out there” to you for quite awhile. I hope you will be able to identify these aversions as products of your previous indoctrinations, rather than that they actually are “out there.” When you finally are able to embrace the full beauty and truth of the Church that Jesus founded upon the Apostles, you will find nothing here that is strange. Be patient.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Thank you for sharing your story. If I am being lead to come back it is a long and slow process; you are right about that. God bless you.

 

[Montalban]

Thank you for sharing your story. If I am being lead to come back it is a long and slow process; you are right about that. God bless you.

Don’t forget to stop off at Orthodoxy, along the way. You may never want to leave

(Actually that sounds vaguely menacing)

 

[Allweather]

Don’t forget to stop off at Orthodoxy, along the way. You may never want to leave

(Actually that sounds vaguely menacing)

Coincidentally, I am picking through Chesterton’s 1908 masterpiece, Orthodoxy. Kind of hard reading, but well worth the effort.

“People have fallen into a foolish habit of speaking of orthodoxy as something heavy, humdrum and safe. There never was anything so perilous or so exciting as orthodoxy.”

–G.K. Chesterton

 

[Sabda]

Glad you found the links interesting.

Now, I understand that the church put together the Bible. But they were guided by the Holy Spirit so they aren’t really the authority, the authority is the Bible itself.

WRONG! God is the authority! Always has been always will be. The Bible wasn’t put together until the latter part of the 300s. The first and second century Christians did not have a Bible to speak of so how could it possibly be the authority? They had a bunch of letters that they read. Some of them ended up being collected into what we know as the Bible today and some of them did not. Even then what we know of as Sacred Scripture wasn’t finished being written until close to 100 A.D. If you use the search should find quite a few threads on this. Unless they were wiped out by the great crash. If that’s the case then we can just start new threads.

The canon of the New Testament.

The canon of the Old Testament.

Thank you for sharing your story. If I am being lead to come back it is a long and slow process; you are right about that

It’s a slow process for all of us. Even for us cradle Catholics. Many of us were not raised to know what the Church taught or why. This is why you see so many Catholics that don’t follow Church teaching, like on birth control for example.

 

[Sabda]

Coincidentally, I am picking through Chesterton’s 1908 masterpiece, Orthodoxy. Kind of hard reading, but well worth the effort.

“People have fallen into a foolish habit of speaking of orthodoxy as something heavy, humdrum and safe. There never was anything so perilous or so exciting as orthodoxy.”

–G.K. Chesterton

I received a gift card to Bordens Bookstore for Christmas and right now I’m trying to see if they have that one.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Don’t forget to stop off at Orthodoxy, along the way. You may never want to leave

(Actually that sounds vaguely menacing)

LOL:thumbsup:

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Glad you found the links interesting.

Now, I understand that the church put together the Bible. But they were guided by the Holy Spirit so they aren’t really the authority, the authority is the Bible itself.

WRONG! God is the authority! Always has been always will be. The Bible wasn’t put together until the latter part of the 300s. The first and second century Christians did not have a Bible to speak of so how could it possibly be the authority? They had a bunch of letters that they read. Some of them ended up being collected into what we know as the Bible today and some of them did not. Even then what we know of as Sacred Scripture wasn’t finished being written until close to 100 A.D. If you use the search should find quite a few threads on this. Unless they were wiped out by the great crash. If that’s the case then we can just start new threads.

I’m sorry, I don’t always make myself clear. I know that God is the authority but I believe that He gave us Scripture as the final authority for all faith and practice. We know God through His Word. So I agree with you that God is the authority but I hope you see what I mean. Hey what was “the great crash”? The first century believers had the OT and the various NT letters and gospels were shared with them.

The canon of the New Testament.

The canon of the Old Testament.

Thank you for sharing your story. If I am being lead to come back it is a long and slow process; you are right about that

It’s a slow process for all of us. Even for us cradle Catholics. Many of us were not raised to know what the Church taught or why. This is why you see so many Catholics that don’t follow Church teaching, like on birth control for example.

Agreed. I sure didn’t learn it growing up. I’ve learned mostly from Protestants what Catholics believe but also from my own understanding of God/Scripture, etc.

 

[jimmy]

Sounds like you meet the prerequisites to be a “one world church” of the end times.

Please don’t refer to the church as the cult of Jesus Christ. If you belong to this “cult” then I presume you believe in salvation by faith alone in Christ alone? Peace be with you brother.

If James didn’t say that faith alone is dead and that works are necessary and that works justify then maybe we would accept faith alone. Or if Christ did not say that those who did not feed Him would go to everlasting fire we might believe it. The fact is that your faith is unChristian and unbiblical.

 

[Sabda]

Hey what was “the great crash”?

Several months ago we had someone hack into the forum and completely wiped it out. You could get onto the main CA site but you could not get onto the forums. This lasted for almost a month. It was quite painful. It’s now referred to it as the “great crash of 2006”. Unfortunately, we lost many great threads because of it.

 

[GarryOwen]

Recently, I tried to join a Protestant forum and was denied the right to join and hold discussion in ‘OTHER CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS’ along with Protestant, non-Baptists simply because I’m Catholic.

I have read their 7-page thread about why Catholics can’t join and have read a lot of interesting things as to why we’re not allowed to join and the main reason seems to stem from the fact that at least one Protestant was converted to Catholicism as a result of a Catholic member having been allowed to join. But quite honestly, it looks like fear is the driving factor behind why Catholics aren’t allowed to join. Their forum agreement says NOTHING about being Catholic and not being allowed to post. So to me it’s religious intolerance to ban a Catholic for simply being a Catholic and no other reason. After all, we’re all Christians here, are we not?

My mom wonders why I’d want to post at a forum where they don’t care what I have to say, but to be quite honest … there are quite a few misconceptions constantly posted about us Catholics that could be cleared up in a civil manner of discussion. Not to mention, it’s not fair to call our popes “evil” and then not let us have the opportunity to rebut it.

They claim they’re not anti-Catholic, yet they say Catholicism is errored, have tried to warn people of the damnation that comes from it, that it is heartbreaknig to see the deceit that many have fallen into, and that it is better to try and persuade Catholics from following their false teaching rather than to have sympathy for them because they can’t post at their forum. One of the pastors there evn goes on to say that sympathy for Catholics is a biblical command and sympathy for Catholicism is biblical disobedience. But, quite honestly, where does it say that in the Bible? I don’t even read anything in my Bible that says sympathy for Protestants is a biblical command and sympathy for Protestantism is biblical disobedience. After all, look at how long ago the Bible was written prior to actual organized religion.

The really sad fact to all this is that Catholics are very tolerant and allow Protestants to register at their forums as so long as they respect the Catholic faith. So, why can’t Protestants be the same way? I thought being Christian meant being Christ-like and Christ wouldn’t what they’re doing.

For the record, I love being Catholic and am strong in my faith. So strong that I would NEVER leave the Church. I don’t see us as non-Christians or even mis-guided Christians for that matter. Why must fear and intolerance play such an important role as to why Protestants treat us the way they do? It’s really quite sad. Quite sad indeed.

They fear the truth and It also puts them in the uncomfortable position of being wrong.

Anyway, keep up the good fight

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Of course we are a cult…last I looked we fulfill all the requirements of a cult…the head of the cult is God, there is only One path to salvation (that is through Him) et cetera… I hereby proclaim to be a member of the cult of Jesus Christ.

Amen!

Cult is such a stupid word. It’s meant to be derogatory, but if you look at the actual definition in Webster’s, almost any gathering of people can be described as a cult. I hereby affirm my membership in the Cult of the Catholic Church, the One True Church founded by Christ on Peter, the rock.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

**

hoosierdaddy:

Yes, I am aware of that. However, I have never been to a church that practices closed communion. Anyone who does…is wrong. It is the Lord’s table.

**

Communion is a sign of unity. Why would you want to receive communion at a Catholic Church anyway, when you don’t consider us (at least the non-dissenters) Christians? All of the Apostolic Churches (Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox) practice closed communion out of respect. The Anglican Communion was the first Church to practice open communion and this doctrine is not found anywhere in Scripture. In fact, Jesus says that we should all be one. We want a real unity, not a false unity. The unity that Jesus wanted us to have. Unity comes from the Eucharist, this is why people who hold different doctrinal values than us are denied the Eucharist (as well as many Catholics who are in a state of mortal sin).

I am quite sure that Sts. Peter or Paul wouldn’t have allowed Judaizers at the Lord’s table.

hoosierdaddy:

They aren’t in communion with me because they refuse to recognize that I am a Christian whereas I recognize that some Catholics are Christian. And maybe even the Catholic church is Christian, although I see them as very mixed up. No reason we can’t get along though.

Oh, gee, thanks. You consider some Catholics Christian who deny their Catholic beliefs. In other words, Catholics in name only. Mixed up? As compared to what, the Protestant Church with 35,000+ denominations?

hoosierdaddy:

If the catholic church believes that protestants are Christians then they would not reject them, mock them, bar them from the Lord’s table, or kill them. Since you aren’t killing us today (except in some parts of the world), when the other three things stop then I will believe that your church considers us Christians. Until then, it’s doublespeak.

The Church believes that anyone who is baptized in the Trinitarian formula (in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) is Christian. This is why when receiving Protestants into the Church, Holy Mother Church does not require re-baptism as many Protestant Churches require of Catholics.

**
Those Catholics who believe in orthodox Christian doctrines are Christians, for example salvation by faith alone. If you disagree with me, that is your right. But you said it…we can’t get along because we believe differently.**

You might want to search your KJV Bible. The only time that the words “faith” and “alone” are mentioned together is in James, where he is refuting this doctrine. Obviously it’s not an “orthodox Christian” doctrine.

God bless you and I hope you change your attitude toward your Catholic brethren in the new year.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

If James didn’t say that faith alone is dead and that works are necessary and that works justify then maybe we would accept faith alone. Or if Christ did not say that those who did not feed Him would go to everlasting fire we might believe it. The fact is that your faith is unChristian and unbiblical.

But the whole context of the book is faith before man. If faith without works is dead according to your unbiblical belief, the rest of Scripture is a lie as it blatantly contradicts it.

So have you been feeding Christ lately? Last I heard He left this earth many centuries ago. Does He like Hamburger Helper?

The fact is that my faith is unChristian and unbiblical eh? So you admit that you (if not your whole church) declares all Protestants to be nonChristians? Come now, spill the beans.

Also, the next time you want to accuse me of being a non-believer please have a little more support for your “fact”. If I said, “the fact is you are a wallaby” and left it that, I’d have as much support for my fact as you offered for yours.

If you want to argue who’s really a Christian we can do that. What makes you a Christian and what makes me NOT a Christian?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

**

Communion is a sign of unity. Why would you want to receive communion at a Catholic Church anyway, when you don’t consider us (at least the non-dissenters) Christians? All of the Apostolic Churches (Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox) practice closed communion out of respect. The Anglican Communion was the first Church to practice open communion and this doctrine is not found anywhere in Scripture. In fact, Jesus says that we should all be one. We want a real unity, not a false unity. The unity that Jesus wanted us to have. Unity comes from the Eucharist, this is why people who hold different doctrinal values than us are denied the Eucharist (as well as many Catholics who are in a state of mortal sin).

Sounds cultic to me. Union is based on being in Christ, which Christians are. Therefore you don’t believe Protestants to be Christians. And if you don’t believe the true gospel, then you aren’t either.**

I am quite sure that Sts. Peter or Paul wouldn’t have allowed Judaizers at the Lord’s table.

So I’m a Judaizer now?

Oh, gee, thanks. You consider some Catholics Christian who deny their Catholic beliefs. In other words, Catholics in name only. Mixed up? As compared to what, the Protestant Church with 35,000+ denominations?

If you want to be sarcastic I can do it better than you…

The Church believes that anyone who is baptized in the Trinitarian formula (in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) is Christian. This is why when receiving Protestants into the Church, Holy Mother Church does not require re-baptism as many Protestant Churches require of Catholics.

Your church’s basis for deciding who is a Christian is wrong. You are wrong too. There are many Protestant churches that accept infant baptism and they don’t demand rebaptism when someone joins their church. The ones who do demand that, don’t believe the catholic church is Christian.

You might want to search your KJV Bible. The only time that the words “faith” and “alone” are mentioned together is in James, where he is refuting this doctrine. Obviously it’s not an “orthodox Christian” doctrine.

It’s funny how you meant that as a slam but I’ll let you in on a little secret. I’m not one of those KJVOnly Protestants. You obviously don’t understand the point of James, nor the context of James within the whole of Scripture. Of course it’s orthodox; most Protestants would agree with me in regards to the book of James.

God bless you and I hope you change your attitude toward your Catholic brethren in the new year.

God bless you and I hope you change your attitude toward your Protestant brethren in the new year. And I have learned something in my short time here. Not EVERY Catholic wishes myself and the rest of my Protestant brethren to be brought before the magisterium and sentenced to death.

 

[Fergal]

Meditate on the Beatitudes and offer your meditation for all seperated brethern.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

**
Sounds cultic to me. Union is based on being in Christ, which Christians are. Therefore you don’t believe Protestants to be Christians. And if you don’t believe the true gospel, then you aren’t either.**

Union is based upon belief, and if we don’t share the same belief about Christ, why would you even want to receive the Eucharist from a Catholic priest?

So I’m a Judaizer now?

I never said that, did I? I was using it as an example.

hoosierdaddy:

Your church’s basis for deciding who is a Christian is wrong. You are wrong too. There are many Protestant churches that accept infant baptism and they don’t demand rebaptism when someone joins their church. The ones who do demand that, don’t believe the catholic church is Christian.

Christ decides who is “Christian”. He left the authority to His Church on Pentecost when he said to St. Peter, “thou art rock and on this rock I will build my Church. I give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatsoever thou shall bind shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever you shall lose shall be losed in heaven.”

Am I wrong when I said that some Protestant churches require re-baptism of Catholics when they join their denomination?

hoosierdaddy:

It’s funny how you meant that as a slam but I’ll let you in on a little secret. I’m not one of those KJVOnly Protestants. You obviously don’t understand the point of James, nor the context of James within the whole of Scripture. Of course it’s orthodox; most Protestants would agree with me in regards to the book of James.

I never said you were a KJVOnlyist. However, Faith and Works play an equal role in salvation. There is no faith without works, therefore there is no faith alone. I don’t believe in faith plus works, I believe in faith and works. Not physical works, but spiritual “works”. You might want to read the Church Fathers, none of them came to the conclusion that the Reformers had in regards to faith and works.

God bless you and I hope you change your attitude toward your Protestant brethren in the new year. And I have learned something in my short time here. Not EVERY Catholic wishes myself and the rest of my Protestant brethren to be brought before the magisterium and sentenced to death.

LOL, the magisterium sentences no one to death, and never has. The magisterium isn’t a “physical” body, it is a spiritual organ of the Church which preserves the Faith.

newadvent.org/cathen/15006b.htm

 

[Allweather]

The fact is that my faith is unChristian and unbiblical eh? So you admit that you (if not your whole church) declares all Protestants to be nonChristians? Come now, spill the beans.

One of the best evidences that the group of errors commonly referred to as “Protestantism” is error, is the multiplicity of denominations within that grouping. Many of these denominations are in contention with themselves, competing fiercely for converts from each other. It is extremely difficult to find enough commonality amongst these denominations to be able to say that they are all Christian, or not Christian. Some certainly do not qualify as Christian, by virtue of the theologies that they preach. A good example would be the Mormons, who though are Protestant-derived, are very far from Christianity. Still, by far, most Protestants are Christians because they hold to the essential doctrines of the faith. The areas in which they deviate are important, but not deviant enough to exclude them from being Christians.

This variety of denomiations amongst Protestantism, which BTW is expanding every day, is an evidence of the error(s). Jesus prayed fervently that we should be united. We are not united, because the various Protestant sects will not submit to the authority that Jesus established upon the Apostles. Protestants refuse to accept many teachings of the Church that have come from the Apostles, and have been held since those earliest days. Until the Protestants accept the authority of the Church, they will be separated from that Church, yet in most cases they are still Christian.

 

[jimmy]

But the whole context of the book is faith before man. If faith without works is dead according to your unbiblical belief, the rest of Scripture is a lie as it blatantly contradicts it.

There is one place in scripture where it uses the phrase ‘faith alone’ and it is in James. The rest of scripture does not contradict James. James says, “14 What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?..17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. …shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? …Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?”

It does not contradict the rest of scripture. Christ is very clear as well that you must live the life which He calls us to live. It is not simply a declaration of faith. Those works may be a expression of your faith but they are works none the less.

So have you been feeding Christ lately? Last I heard He left this earth many centuries ago. Does He like Hamburger Helper?

Read Matthew25;31-45

31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.
41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

The fact is that my faith is unChristian and unbiblical eh? So you admit that you (if not your whole church) declares all Protestants to be nonChristians? Come now, spill the beans.

I never said that you were not a Christian. I accept that you and other protestants are Christians. But the doctrine of salvation by ‘faith alone’ is both unbiblical and unChristian.

Also, the next time you want to accuse me of being a non-believer please have a little more support for your “fact”. If I said, “the fact is you are a wallaby” and left it that, I’d have as much support for my fact as you offered for yours.

I never said you were a non-believer. If that is how you interpreted what I said then read it again.