Just finished the book, Why Catholics can't Sing

[OraLabora]

As a purely random thought, I’d note that if we take a very traditional approach to things (which most parishes do not in these regards) almost the entire Mass can be sung (excluding the readings and homily, of course).

If you have a celebrant with a good voice, that’s very striking, and definitely not very Protestant.

Our fellow Eastern Catholics, and of course our brothers the Orthodox, do sing the entire celebration, I believe.

Just noting that, because if people want to sing. . . well.

Also, fwiw, while I hear a lot of complaints about singing and the Church, and I also hear people actually say they go to this or that Protestant service for the singing, even though I’m a fan of music, once the music gets good enough to take on a performance quality to it, at least for me, it detracts from the seriousness of the service.

The readings too can be sung. The melodies for Latin are in the Graduale Romanum. Our abbey chants all the readings in French.

 

[Yeoman]

At one funeral we attended, the family had a recording of the deceased’s favorite country western song played at the end. I’ve told my family I want Queen’s Another One Bites the Dust - but it should be at the reception, not in the church!

I don’t like country music, but my wife does, and listens to it while driving.

I note that, as its introductory to this recollection.

When my son was very small, and just learning to talk, he sang a lot. We were at Mass, sitting in the back (thankfully) when he began to sing Gretchen Wilson’s “Red Neck Woman”.

Quite embarrassing, but the folks around us were pretty amused and were having a hard time not laughing.

 

[ThundersnowIV]

In our parish people do not sing during one particular Mass. The choir is too good. They are excellent…but many feel they are showing their talent and the folks in the pews cannot even come close to singing along with them. Therefore…everyone just stands or sits and listens. I always thought the choir was supposed to lead. That is not what they are doing in this case.

 

[Jerusha]

Perfect example of badly done good music is the dirge-like renditions of hymns set to Beethoven’s “Ode to Joy”.

In my natal parish, the recessional was always “Faith of our Fathers”; the first two stanzas took ten minutes.

In this parish, they like anything new. I think the choir likes to wow the rest, rather than lead.

 

[Eric_Prine]

We sang that song about 40 years ago.
Surely parishes are not using those old hymnals like Glory and Praise still.
They were awful back then.
.

I’ve been to a few parishes that have Praise and Glory in the pews. What I find especially grating and I refuse to sing to are songs that have the singer singing as if he were God, with lyrics like, ‘I am the bread of life’.

 

[Bonnie]

I’ve been to a few parishes that have Praise and Glory in the pews. What I find especially grating and I refuse to sing to are songs that have the singer singing as if he were God, with lyrics like, ‘I am the bread of life’.

Me, too. I used to complain, but that got me nowhere. So now I just don’t sing them.

 

[Phemie]

In our parish people do not sing during one particular Mass. The choir is too good. They are excellent…but many feel they are showing their talent and the folks in the pews cannot even come close to singing along with them. Therefore…everyone just stands or sits and listens. I always thought the choir was supposed to lead. That is not what they are doing in this case.

Choir singing alone is a valid option, at least for the Entrance, Offertory and Communion hymns. Responses, OTOH, should be by everyone and if there is a hymn after Communion it should be congregational, but that particular hymn is often a solo, the direct opposite of what the GIRM says.

GIRM 88 --When the distribution of Communion is over, if appropriate, the Priest and faithful pray quietly for some time. If desired, a Psalm or other canticle of praise or a hymn may also be sung by the whole congregation.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I’ve been to a few parishes that have Praise and Glory in the pews. What I find especially grating and I refuse to sing to are songs that have the singer singing as if he were God, with lyrics like, ‘I am the bread of life’.

“I Am the Bread of Life” was one of my all time favourite hymns in English. I thought it was exceptional…but then I have done a lot over my years involving the Bread of Life Discourse.

 

[27lw]

I’ve been to a few parishes that have Praise and Glory in the pews. What I find especially grating and I refuse to sing to are songs that have the singer singing as if he were God, with lyrics like, ‘I am the bread of life’.

Oh, yes, I’m always mentally re-arranging that one. “He is the bread of life, those who come to Him will not thirst”… Lots of those hymns around! Also, “I have loved you with an everlasting love/ I have loved you, and you are mine”. Easy enough to switch to “He has loved us, with an everlasting love, He has loved us, and we are his”.

PianistClare - - you must belong to a nice restrained parish, where never is heard “They will know we are Christians”, etc.

 

[wynd]

As a purely random thought, I’d note that if we take a very traditional approach to things (which most parishes do not in these regards) almost the entire Mass can be sung (excluding the readings and homily, of course).

If you have a celebrant with a good voice, that’s very striking, and definitely not very Protestant.

Our fellow Eastern Catholics, and of course our brothers the Orthodox, do sing the entire celebration, I believe.

Yes, we don’t really have spoken services. Everything in church is sung or chanted, save for a couple prayers here and there.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Speaking as a convert that hasn’t been around that long- there are some very difficult songs to sing and awkward sounding in many Catholic parishes. I grew up in a traditional quasi-liturgical Protestant church and prefer traditional Protestant hymns more than the folk sounding Catholic songs. Though I am now getting more exposure to both Eastern Liturgy and the Latin solemn mass and the music at both are very beautiful.

When I was a kid, nearly all hymns were in Latin and much or all of the Mass was sung in Gregorian chant. We don’t hear that anymore, at all. It’s a shame, because Gregorian is easy to sing.

But I was raised in the Ozarks, and all my young life the radio was full of protestant Gospel music, and I heard a lot of it. Later, when we had TV, there was still a lot of it, including the old “Ozark Jubilee” in which a few gospel songs were always sung.

As a result, I like hearing those old Gospel songs, and I like to sing them. They are remarkably easy to sing, and easy on the ears. Now and then in the parish I attend, some of them will be sung. I also like the Mozart hymns without exception and most of the truly “ethnic” ones. Anything old has clearly stood the test of time, and they’re usually singable and pretty.

But I really don’t like many of the 1970s and 1980s hymns. There are a few newer ones now, some good, some not so good. Some of them I just refuse to sing, I dislike them so much.

I really think it would be neat to sing some of the Byzantine hymns, though. But until our director brings some on, I’ll still mostly prefer the old country gospel hymns.

 

[Ridgerunner]

“I Am the Bread of Life” was one of my all time favourite hymns in English. I thought it was exceptional…but then I have done a lot over my years involving the Bread of Life Discourse.

I realize a lot of people hate it, and consider it almost blasphemous. But I like it. It’s easy to sing and, while I’m no expert in music, it seems the vowel sounds are all in the right place. I just think of the “I” as being Jesus, which is the intention, really.

I sing in the choir. It’s not a fancy choir, but it isn’t bad. I have, unfortunately, been instructed to sing a very low bass because I’m the only person who can sing bass reliably(basso profundo, actually) in the whole group. All the other men are baritones.
Since I can sing “basso profundo” notes, I REALLY would like it if the director had us learn and sing some Byzantine hymns. Basso profundo sounds so neat in those hymns, and so necessary.

But, I still like singing in the choir, despite every drawback.

 

[ThundersnowIV]

Choir singing alone is a valid option, at least for the Entrance, Offertory and Communion hymns. Responses, OTOH, should be by everyone and if there is a hymn after Communion it should be congregational, but that particular hymn is often a solo, the direct opposite of what the GIRM says.

GIRM 88 doesn’t address my concern. But thanks.

 

[Phemie]

GIRM 88 doesn’t address my concern. But thanks.

Here are the relevant GIRM articles referring to the Entrance hymn, Offertory Hymn and Communion Hymn. While I have quoted the Canadian Edition of GIRM 87, the US edition, the England and Wales edition, the Australian edition, the France edition all end 87 with the same sentence.

1. When the people are gathered, and as the Priest enters with the Deacon and ministers, the Entrance Chant begins. Its purpose is to open the celebration, foster the unity of those who have been gathered, introduce their thoughts to the mystery of the liturgical time or festivity, and accompany the procession of the Priest and ministers.
2. This chant is sung alternately by the choir and the people or similarly by a cantorand the people, or entirely by the people, or by the choir alone.

1. The procession bringing the gifts is accompanied by the Offertory Chant (cf. no. 37 b), which continues at least until the gifts have been placed on the altar. The norms on the manner of singing are the same as for the Entrance Chant (cf. no. 48).

1. While the Priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion Chant is begun, its purpose being to express the spiritual union of the communicants by means of the unity of their voices, to show gladness of heart, and to bring out more clearly the “communitarian” character of the procession to receive the Eucharist. The singing is prolonged for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful. However, if there is to be a hymn after Communion, the Communion Chant should be ended in a timely manner. Care should be taken that singers, too, can receive Communion with ease.
2. In the dioceses of Canada singing at Communion may be chosen from among thefollowing: the antiphon from the Graduale Romanum, with or without the Psalm, or theantiphon with Psalm from the Graduale Simplex, or some other suitable liturgical chant approved by the Conference of Bishops of Canada. **This is sung either by the choir alone **or by the choir or a cantor with the people.

 

[Wesrock]

I Am the Bread of Life is just quoting John 6:35.

Actually, just looked it up, and I found two hymns under that name. I prefer the one that has “He who comes to me shall not hunger” as the second line. I’ve always known I am quoting Jesus, and that it is Him who is the speaker of the song, not myself. I’ve always liked that one.

 

[ThundersnowIV]

Here are the relevant GIRM articles referring to the Entrance hymn, Offertory Hymn and Communion Hymn. While I have quoted the Canadian Edition of GIRM 87, the US edition, the England and Wales edition, the Australian edition, the France edition all end 87 with the same sentence.

Thanks. I guess I think it is better to include all. Just my opinion.

 

[Catherinabird]

I love singing, and I love when everyone else is singing too. I don’t care if people are “bad”. The fuller the sound surrounding you, the more you yourself will feel bold enough to sing out whether you are excellent or not.

Singing also helps you remember words, and for those with Tourette’s or a stutter, singing can actually be stabilizing. I am sad that so many schools are reducing or eliminating their music programs. Singing is good for you, and music in school will install at least a little confidence and an understanding of musical notation. I am also sad when no one sings at Mass. I don’t like being the only one singing, and it is difficult and restraining to try to match your voice to what is essentially a hush.

I’ve never found any of the hymns to be difficult, but I have been singing for over 26 or so years. I realize for someone who doesn’t have any experience reading music it may be much harder. I think those churches (I’ve seen this at Protestant churches) who use screens with only the words are doing a disservice to people because you learn so much by having actual music in front of you instead of just words.

I am tired of Amazing Grace. However, it seems to be the only song universally known.

 

[psalm90]

There was a part of the book where the author talked about ethnic songs being performed in American parishes such as, “When Irish Eyes are Smiling”, which have no theological place in the Liturgy. I’ve never witnessed this before, but yesterday I went to a traditionally German heritage parish and a piano player started playing, Edelweiss.
Anyway that is all. Just wanted to share. Maybe I should have been outraged but I started laughing. It was technically before the mass started or before the priest’s entrance- but still I thought it was still an odd choice for those of us sitting there before mass began.

+This book has been around for a long time, but I never bothered to read it. What’s the answer to the question? Why CAN’T Catholics sing?

I was in one parish where the songs were so difficult to sing, even the one soprano couldn’t reach the high notes and faded into breathing.

I just went to a different parish in my town and they use a grand piano, which is either very naturally loud or loud due to amplification. Anyway, the pianist played flourishes in all the hymns that made the songs sound like they came out of Rogers and Hammerstein’s Oklahoma.

 

[OraLabora]

I’ve been to a few parishes that have Praise and Glory in the pews. What I find especially grating and I refuse to sing to are songs that have the singer singing as if he were God, with lyrics like, ‘I am the bread of life’.

You do realize that most of Gregorian chant is from scripture and thus has either the choir or a cantor speaking as Jesus in the first person? “I am the Bread of Life” is pure scripture.

Take a look at the lyrics of Qui manducat for instance (he who eats of my flesh) sung with the voice of Jesus in the first person. It’s only one example among many.

 

[Qoeleth]

I believe that ‘group singing’ is no longer part of Anglophone culture.

People prefer to listen to a soloist or choir sing (any maybe read and think about the words).

Music is an important ‘commodity’ in our society. Many people get a lot of meaning and inspiration out of it. But this is not ‘sing along hymn’ type music.

Often, we when we have a great solo singer at our Church, people will just listen (even though they know the hymn, and have the words). ‘Sings-alongs’ hymns make sense in some cultures (like German, in certain centuries gone by). But for people in modern Anglophone cultures, few things could be less pleasant and less edifying.