Just have faith and you are done

[rben20]

Hello Catholics and others,

I need help understanding why some Christians believe that all you have to do is profess that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior (really mean that) and no matter what you do after you are still saved. I don’t get that logic. Granted I grew up Catholic where you were never sure until your butt was in Heaven and through venial and mortal sin could either hurt or severe your relationship with God. I have read the New Testament several times and no where do I find such a verse that states we have to do such a thing. I’ve read St. Paul says we have to work out our salvation “with fear and trembling.” I’ve read St. Paul tell St. Timothy that we could make “a shipwreck” of our faith. Don’t these verses make null the logic that we can’t mess up our relationship with God or that we are “done” once we have a profession. What is this teaching founded on? It doesn’t appear biblical at all.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Well, it isn’t biblical, but it’s mainly from taking verses out of context. It is supposedly the only way you can have assurance of your salvation (1 John 5:13).

 

[ltwin]

I don’t where this belief comes from, other than faulty understanding of the whole counsel of God.

Personally, I have rarely come across such Christians. The Protestant churches that I’m familiar with are big on pointing out that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I was always taught even after I confessed Christ as my Lord and Savior, I still would sin and need to repent. Holiness of life is a must. Sure you have to let Christ change you from the inside out and that takes time, but I was never taught that once you confessed faith in Christ that that was it.

I’m not saying people don’t believe OSAS, only I have truly never personally met someone who openly advocated it. I’d be interested to talk to someone who does.

 

[Eutychus123]

I don’t even begin to understand any OSAS doctrine. At the very least, I am asking for forgiveness every time I say the Lord’s Prayer.

 

[ltwin]

I don’t even begin to understand any OSAS doctrine. At the very least, I am asking for forgiveness every time I say the Lord’s Prayer.

Dude, I completely agree. I ask God’s forgiveness at least once a day because I sin every day. I don’t understand how anyone who claims to have faith in Christ would not feel the weight of sin and the conviction of the Holy Spirit in his life when he lives in sin.

Pentecostals say that a person who claims to be a Christian but does not live like one has “back slided.”

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Many ecclesial communities teach OSAS – Once Saved, Always Saved. It’s very popular among Baptists. The “Reformed” organizations teach the same concept in the Perseverance of the Saints. It is the result of “proof-texting,” which all Protestant denominations do. Each has its own set of “proof-texts” which “prove” that their interpretation of the Bible is the correct one (as opposed to the thousands of other interpretations from thousands of other denominations.)

Faith Alone (Sola Fide) was “discovered” in Romans by Martin Luther as he sat on the privy in the monastery tower in Wittenberg. For a fact. So it says in the history books.

Jim Dandy

 

[hn160]

Many ecclesial communities teach OSAS – Once Saved, Always Saved. It’s very popular among Baptists. The “Reformed” organizations teach the same concept in the Perseverance of the Saints. It is the result of “proof-texting,” which all Protestant denominations do. Each has its own set of “proof-texts” which “prove” that their interpretation of the Bible is the correct one (as opposed to the thousands of other interpretations from thousands of other denominations.)

Faith Alone (Sola Fide) was “discovered” in Romans by Martin Luther as he sat on the privy in the monastery tower in Wittenberg. For a fact. So it says in the history books.

Jim Dandy

We believe that we are justified by grace alone through faith alone in Christ’s righteousness alone is the gospel, the core of the Christian faith around which all other Christian doctrines are centered and based.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

We believe that we are justified by grace alone through faith alone in Christ’s righteousness alone is the gospel, the core of the Christian faith around which all other Christian doctrines are centered and based.

Yes, I know. Lutherans were not included in my statement that “many Protestants” teach OSAS. However, Luther’s “Let Your Sins Be Strong” was the beginning of it, IMO.

QUOTE: It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. END QUOTE

“All other original Christian doctrines are centered and based” on the teaching of the Apostles, not on the Bible. They are confirmed in the Bible. The Church and her teachings are about 364 years older than the Bible.

From the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church:

By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works

We show our love of God by our faith and our love of neighbor by our works. Both are required for salvation. See Mt 25:31-46, among many others.

Jim Dandy

 

[JonNC]

=Jim Dandy;8232271]Yes, I know. Lutherans were not included in my statement that “many Protestants” teach OSAS. However, Luther’s “Let Your Sins Be Strong” was the beginning of it, IMO.

QUOTE: It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.

I’m not sure this is the case, Jim. The quote you reference was in a personal letter Luther sent to Melanchthon, not a doctrinal statement or homily, and may not have been widely available at the time. Obviously, today it is sometimes misconstrued as to its meaning.

“All other original Christian doctrines are centered and based” on the teaching of the Apostles, not on the Bible. They are confirmed in the Bible. The Church and her teachings are about 364 years older than the Bible.

But not the writings that make up the Bible.

From the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church:

By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works

We show our love of God by our faith and our love of neighbor by our works. Both are required for salvation. See Mt 25:31-46, among many others.

If by this you mean that a saving faith is an active faith, a Galatians 5:6 faith, then I agree.

Jon

 

[Kristin234]

Hello Catholics and others,

I need help understanding why some Christians believe that all you have to do is profess that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior (really mean that) and no matter what you do after you are still saved. I don’t get that logic. Granted I grew up Catholic where you were never sure until your butt was in Heaven and through venial and mortal sin could either hurt or severe your relationship with God. I have read the New Testament several times and no where do I find such a verse that states we have to do such a thing. I’ve read St. Paul says we have to work out our salvation “with fear and trembling.” I’ve read St. Paul tell St. Timothy that we could make “a shipwreck” of our faith. Don’t these verses make null the logic that we can’t mess up our relationship with God or that we are “done” once we have a profession. What is this teaching founded on? It doesn’t appear biblical at all.

I am a non-Catholic Christian and I have never in my life heard anyone say that all you have to do is say Jesus is Lord and Savior and that is it. Accepting Jesus is the first step, but you don’t sit back and do nothing after. You will want to learn more about him. You will want to follow him and do what he tells you to do. After all, your faith shows through your good works. If you don’t have good works and you say you accepted Jesus yet you do nothing, do you really have faith?

 

[Publisher]

I am a non-Catholic Christian and I have never in my life heard anyone say that all you have to do is say Jesus is Lord and Savior and that is it. Accepting Jesus is the first step, but you don’t sit back and do nothing after. You will want to learn more about him. You will want to follow him and do what he tells you to do. After all, your faith shows through your good works. If you don’t have good works and you say you accepted Jesus yet you do nothing, do you really have faith?

That is also my experience…the “just have faith and you are done” is a Catholic caricature of Protestant belief.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

That is also my experience…the “just have faith and you are done” is a Catholic caricature of Protestant belief.

It is a summary description of Once Saved, Always Saved, a doctrine not embraced by every Protestant denomination, but nevertheless embraced by many, particularly the Baptists.

Jim Dandy
Former Baptist

 

[Publisher]

It is a summary description of Once Saved, Always Saved, a doctrine not embraced by every Protestant denomination, but nevertheless embraced by many, particularly the Baptists.

Jim Dandy
Former Baptist

Even among those who do embrace OSAS…those who do NOT LIVE a Christian life…aren’t really “saved” in the first place…no matter whether one is Arminian or Calvinist a holy life is a necessary part of their belief system…one cannot “do what ever they wish” that is an unfair AND untrue explanation of “eternal security”.

Granted, there are some extremists out there who are true antinominanists…but they are rare…the security of the believer is not license to "do what you want’…it is the belief that it is GOD who keeps us…not ourselves…unfortuneatly many Calvinists are as ignorant of their belief systems as Catholics are of Calvinism…I did not use the word “ignorant” as an insult by the way…ignorance of a subject is a trait all of us exhibit at times…willffull ignorance is another matter entirely.

 

[Publisher]

It is a summary description of Once Saved, Always Saved, a doctrine not embraced by every Protestant denomination, but nevertheless embraced by many, particularly the Baptists.

Jim Dandy
Former Baptist

Perhaps a “summary description” for a Catholic trying to explain the belief…I don’t know any Calvinists who understand their faith that would agree with you however.

 

[Nicea325]

Hello Catholics and others,

I need help understanding why some Christians believe that all you have to do is profess that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior (really mean that) and no matter what you do after you are still saved. I don’t get that logic. Granted I grew up Catholic where you were never sure until your butt was in Heaven and through venial and mortal sin could either hurt or severe your relationship with God. I have read the New Testament several times and no where do I find such a verse that states we have to do such a thing. I’ve read St. Paul says we have to work out our salvation “with fear and trembling.” I’ve read St. Paul tell St. Timothy that we could make “a shipwreck” of our faith. Don’t these verses make null the logic that we can’t mess up our relationship with God or that we are “done” once we have a profession. What is this teaching founded on? It doesn’t appear biblical at all.

It is not Biblical at all. Salvation is a life-time PROCESS not a mere act of confession. If it were truly that simple,I am curious why Jesus simply did not say it or teach it as his main basis? Indeed Jesus died for all of humanity,thus he did His part,now we have to do our part too.

 

[Nicea325]

Perhaps a “summary description” for a Catholic trying to explain the belief…I don’t know any Calvinists who understand their faith that would agree with you however.

If I am correct,Jim was a former Protestant,thus I would not assume he is merely stating it from a Catholic position.

 

[Publisher]

If I am correct,Jim was a former Protestant,thus I would not assume he is merely stating it from a Catholic position.

I would dare say…he is not stating it from a Calvinist position either…but that’s just me…I don’t accept OSAS either but I try to understand the opposing belief system and understand it from their perspective…but the conclusions drawn by Catholics are not correct either.

I believe truth does matter…and misrepresenting others beliefs to further my own does not speak from that Center of Truth and Love…so to insure we understand and not misrepresent or speak for another perhaps friend Jim could clarify…Jim…are you stating the OSAS position from an accepted Calvinist position…or is it being “filtered” thru your Catholic faith?

 

[Nicea325]

I would dare say…he is not stating it from a Calvinist position either…but that’s just me…I don’t accept OSAS either but I try to understand the opposing belief system and understand it from their perspective…but the conclusions drawn by Catholics are not correct either.

I believe truth does matter…and misrepresenting others beliefs to further my own does not speak from that Center of Truth and Love…so to insure we understand and not misrepresent or speak for another perhaps friend Jim could clarify…Jim…are you stating the OSAS position from an accepted Calvinist position…or is it being “filtered” thru your Catholic faith?

That is not necessarily true. All one has to do is study Calvin and his beliefs,thus you cannot say Catholics are not correct either. It is one thing to assume what others believe and teach without taking the time to truly study it;however, if one truly studies another position,it is not fair to say his or her conclusions are false simply they belong to another faith. Many non-Catholics are correct about what the CC teaches,thus it does not make their conclusions false.

 

[Publisher]

That is not necessarily true. All one has to do is study Calvin and his beliefs,thus you cannot say Catholics are not correct either. It is one thing to assume what others believe and teach without taking the time to truly study it;however, if one truly studies another position,it is not fair to say his or her conclusions are false simply they belong to another faith. Many non-Catholics are correct about what the CC teaches,thus it does not make their conclusions false.

The statement…“Just have faith and you are done” is not representative of Calvinist belief. It is a gross oversimplification of what Baptists and others that embrace “eternal security of the believer” believe and practice. To suggest so is less than truthful…IMO.

Perhaps friend Jim would be able to shed light on what his understanding truly is…I would be interested if he truly believes the statment of this thread is an accurate representation of Baptist/Reformed belief.

 

[Izdaari]

It is not Biblical at all. Salvation is a life-time PROCESS not a mere act of confession. If it were truly that simple,I am curious why Jesus simply did not say it or teach it as his main basis? Indeed Jesus died for all of humanity,thus he did His part,now we have to do our part too.

One of my AG pastors likes to say “We are process people.”

AG theology amounts to conservative Methodism + continuationism. We are not Baptists.