Just how inviolable is the confessional seal?

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thistle said:
Actually that is not correct. It is not what the penitent confesses during Confession that cannot be revealed. Nothing that is said during Confession can be revealed
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What about the new ruling by Pope Francis that said a priest must report to his superiors what he heard in confession?
 
I read it carefully. Exactly what words are you interacting that nothing can be revealed. I assure you it does not say that!
 
Hope1960 said:
What about the new ruling by Pope Francis that said a priest must report to his superiors what he heard in confession?
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He didn’t say anything of the kind. It seems many people are misreading the news coverage of what the Pope actually said. As we just had an entire long thread on someone else’s similar misunderstanding of what the Pope said, I’ll refrain from revisiting the subject here.

Edited to add, Here is the thread we just had. If you wish to pursue this topic, I’d suggest posting in that thread to continue the discussion over there.
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I am reading that the Pope has given instruction to break the seal of confession? Liturgy and Sacraments
I have seen these articles: and others that report basically the same thing, regarding abuse within the church. I was hoping for clarification by those who may know more than me. If true, how does this fit into Catholic teachings? Is the law of a given land to be adhered to if it requires priests to break the seal of confession? Perhaps because of the wording, turn yourself in, it does not break the seal? But even then, and even though the act is most heinous, does that not go against offic…
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Hope1960 said:
What about the new ruling by Pope Francis that said a priest must report to his superiors what he heard in confession?
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If you’re going to claim that the Pope is ordering a violation of canon law, you should provide the exact quote and source.
 
angel12 said:
If you’re going to claim that the Pope is ordering a violation of canon law, you should provide the exact quote and source.
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The quote and source was provided in another thread, but I, along with some others, misunderstood the Pope and his new ruling. HTH.
 
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thistle said:
There are absolutely no circumstances in which the seal may be broken, whether someone confesses suicidal thoughts or even confesses they are going to murder someone.
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To confess that one is going to murder someone would in fact be an invalid sacramental confession, because obviously there is no remorse or firm purpose of amendment; it’s an announcement, not a confession! The priest would have to withhold absolution in that case.

The question then is: has the seal been violated if a confession has not, in fact, taken place?
 
If the person goes to confession and mentions a sin he committed, that is protected information and the priest can’t reveal it. Doesn’t matter whether the priest offers absolution.
On the other hand if the person tells the priest he saw joe murder someone. He is not confessing a sin, that could be revealed IMO.
 
There is No circumstances in which a priest can break the seal, it is kept sacred. If a person were to confess murder or suicidal thoughts all a priest could do is tell them to turn themselves in or get help. If a priest does break the seal, he could be ex-communicated.
 
OraLabora said:
To confess that one is going to murder someone would in fact be an invalid sacramental confession, because obviously there is no remorse or firm purpose of amendment; it’s an announcement, not a confession! The priest would have to withhold absolution in that case.

The question then is: has the seal been violated if a confession has not, in fact, taken place?
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It is irrelevant if the priest does not give absolution. He still cannot say what was said during Confession.
 
I do wonder. So a priest cannot reveal that he heard a person’s confession and their sin. Could he reveal hearing a certain sin if it did not reveal in anyway the person’s identity? What if he just warned someone that something bad was going to happen without revealing that he heard it in confession or from whom he heard it?
 
PatK63 said:
I would knock over the punch bowl!
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I’m pretty sure canon law states that the confessor is not permitted to take action based on what he hears in the confessional. (The one example I remember, from a class I took a good while back, was that if a priest found out his employee was stealing from the parish, he couldn’t then run out and lock up the place where it’s stored.)
rosejmj said:
What if he just warned someone that something bad was going to happen without revealing that he heard it in confession or from whom he heard it?
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Nope. He can’t do that, either.
 
I don’t know! How would knocking over the punch bowls reveal either the sinner and the crime would be known or the crime and the sinner would be known. I don’t doubt you were told that but doubt the person was correct.
 
PatK63 said:
I don’t know!
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I do, though… 😉
PatK63 said:
I don’t doubt you were told that but doubt the person was correct.
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He is a priest, a canon lawyer, and a professor. I’m thinking he’s correct. 😉

I found the canon:
Can. 984 §1. A confessor is prohibited completely from using knowledge acquired from confession to the detriment of the penitent even when any danger of revelation is excluded.

§2. A person who has been placed in authority cannot use in any manner for external governance the knowledge about sins which he has received in confession at any time.
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So, even if there’s no “danger of revelation” (of where he found out), a confessor is “prohibited completely” from using the knowledge he gained in the confessional.
Moreover, as the pastor in authority, he’s not permitted to use the knowledge of sins learned in the confessional “in any manner.”

So, I think I’m on pretty solid ground here.
PatK63 said:
How would knocking over the punch bowls reveal either the sinner and the crime would be known or the crime and the sinner would be known.
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If he’s securing the office against a thief, others will know. One could easily see how this could turn to the “detriment of the penitent” who confessed to him. If he’s knocking over a punch bowl (no matter how deftly he does so), people will talk. At the very least, the penitent himself will know that the priest is using his knowledge outside the confessional, and so will be less likely to go to confession and/or be honest in the confessional. That alone is significantly bad enough a result!
 
Gorgias said:
If he’s securing the office against a thief, others will know. One could easily see how this could turn to the “detriment of the penitent” who confessed to him. If he’s knocking over a punch bowl (no matter how deftly he does so), people will talk. At the very least , the penitent himself will know that the priest is using his knowledge outside the confessional, and so will be less likely to go to confession and/or be honest in the confessional. That alone is significantly bad enough a result!
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And that is the point, isn’t it.

How many people would go to Confession if they knew that the priest would take action based on what they confessed?

The priest is, or at least should be, concerned for our souls. And our souls need confession.
 
Elf01 said:
If the action didn’t identify me I’d be OK with it.
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So, the integrity of the seal of the confessional should hinge on a particular person’s opinion of whether they’ve been “outed” or not?

No… far better that the integrity of the seal is completely unquestioned, so that the issue never comes up in the first place. The confessional is about divine justice, not human justice. If we conflate the two, only bad results will follow…
 
Lawyers! My reading is the Canon you sited does not say what you represented.
I’ll let the priest figure it out. I give up though. 😎
 
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