Just how many Patriarchs are there in The Orthodox Church?

[2ndGen]

I was told it was the four “original” Patriarchs…but their own catechism states that there are “new” Patriarchs (Russia, Serbia, and Roumania).

Isn’t this “not” being original to the original count of Patriarchs of 4?

Isn’t this “adding”, “changing” and/or “innovating” the number of the accepted Patriarchs?

 

[JMBNH]

Constantinople
Alexandria
Antioch
Jerusalem
Moscow
Serbia
Romania
Bulgaria
Georgia

Actually there’s 9

Not sure if the number of Patriarchs is considered necessary to stay the same, though that was the logic with ‘replacing’ Rome with Moscow. Though it’s clear from Church history that Patriarchs were added. After Nicea there were just 3, Rome, Alexandria and Antioch. Constantinople got upgraded at the 1st Council of Constantinople (conveniently enough), and Jerusalem after the Council of Chalcedon. Though the latter two were not even Metropolitan Bishops, but were Suffragan to Ephesus and Caesarea respectively before their upgrading

 

[2ndGen]

Constantinople
Alexandria
Antioch
Jerusalem
Moscow
Serbia
Romania
Bulgaria
Georgia

Actually there’s 9

Not sure if the number of Patriarchs is considered necessary to stay the same, though that was the logic with ‘replacing’ Rome with Moscow. Though it’s clear from Church history that Patriarchs were added. After Nicea there were just 3, Rome, Alexandria and Antioch. Constantinople got upgraded at the 1st Council of Constantinople (conveniently enough), and Jerusalem after the Council of Chalcedon. Though the latter two were not even Metropolitan Bishops, but were Suffragan to Ephesus and Caesarea respectively before their upgrading

9?



I need a nap.

I can’t…I just can’t keep up with those guys.

There facts change faster than Mitt Romney’s positions.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Constantinople
Alexandria
Antioch
Jerusalem
Moscow
Serbia
Romania
Bulgaria
Georgia

Actually there’s 9

Not sure if the number of Patriarchs is considered necessary to stay the same,

No, it is not.

though that was the logic with ‘replacing’ Rome with Moscow.

You are confusing the Third Rome thesis with our issues with Rome as first among equals. Moscow’s autocephalacy (independence) predates this (1448, she refused to accept the Council of Florence, as the Patriarch of Constantinople, New Rome, was forced to by the emperor, although this acceptance was conditioned on a resident synod in Constantinople, which never happened). The request for status of patriarchate (1589) specifically requested a position after Constantinople and Alexandria but before Antioch and Jerusalem. She was not to take Rome’s place.

Ivan III, Grand Duke of Moscow (the first to adopt the title of married Sophia Paleologue, a niece of Constantine XI, the last Eastern Roman Emperor and Ivan could claim to be the heir of the fallen Eastern Roman Empire (such succession had occured during both the first and second Romes). The idea of Third Rome crystallized with a panegyric letter composed by the Russian monk Philoteus (Filofey) in 1510 to their son Grand Duke Vasili III , which proclaimed, “Two Romes have fallen. The third stands. And there will be no fourth. No one shall replace your Christian Tsardom!” Contrary to the common misconception, Filofey explicitly identifies Third Rome with Russia (the country) rather than with Moscow (the city). Vasili’s son Ivan IV would be the first to take the title of Tsar (Caesar, emperor).

Though it’s clear from Church history that Patriarchs were added.

Or not. The Church of Cyprus had her autocephalacy confirmed in the Ancient Church at the Third Ecumenical Council (431), but her primate has never been named patriarch, whereas Jerusalem a was so elevated later, as you correctly state below.

After Nicea there were just 3, Rome, Alexandria and Antioch. Constantinople got upgraded at the 1st Council of Constantinople (conveniently enough), and Jerusalem after the Council of Chalcedon. Though the latter two were not even Metropolitan Bishops, but were Suffragan to Ephesus and Caesarea respectively before their upgrading

Actually, Contantinople, or rather, Byzantium, had been suffragan to Heracleia, so even lower in rank.