Just how "traditional" can the N.O. be?

[albert_cipriani]

bear06:

Let’s ignore the fact that you are not historically correct.

Let’s not. I’m not here to hear myself talk. I’m here to learn what I can just like everyone else. I’ve learned from Deacon Ed. Now, if you’ve got some historical information that refutes anything I’ve said, share it please. This is not supposed to be a monologue. I’m trying to have a dialogue with you guys but you make it mighty difficult when you ignore my historical errors.

I just don’t want anyone to miss that you are still historically challenged.

What about me!? Why do you care to advertise to others that I’m “historically challenged” when you won’t lift a finger to explain to me my error? This is uncharitable of you towards me and arrogant of you towards others that you imagine they will accept what you say on your say-so alone without a shred of argumentation. – Sincerely, Albert Cipriani the Traditional Catholic
http://www.geocities.com/albert_cipriani/index.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReligiousPhilosophy/

 

[bear06]

albert cipriani:

Let’s not. I’m not here to hear myself talk. I’m here to learn what I can just like everyone else. I’ve learned from Deacon Ed. Now, if you’ve got some historical information that refutes anything I’ve said, share it please. This is not supposed to be a monologue. I’m trying to have a dialogue with you guys but you make it mighty difficult when you ignore my historical errors.

What about me!? Why do you care to advertise to others that I’m “historically challenged” when you won’t lift a finger to explain to me my error? This is uncharitable of you towards me and arrogant of you towards others that you imagine they will accept what you say on your say-so alone without a shred of argumentation. – Sincerely, Albert Cipriani the Traditional Catholic

You just need to read a few posts earlier to see that Mr. Hofer gave you some perfect examples of what I said in an even earlier post.

I’ve also mentioned before (although I can’t even remember if it was in this thread) that the rosy pre-Vatican II scenario that is always posed is not accurate either. Church attendence was in decline. The fact is that those who didn’t want to see change and those who wanted the change to go farther have followed most councils. Do you deny this?

 

[Mysty101]

albert cipriani:

The nearest licit Tridentine Mass (offered via the indult) is 60 miles away in an industrial park and I believe only 3 Sundays per month, thus force-feeding the N.O. to Traditional Catholics who wish to remain in communion with our bishop.

------Sure. There’s at least 35 of us.

------The schedule I have is from the Traditio.com. Thanks for your concern and questions. – Sincerely, Albert Cipriani the Traditional Catholic

Is there a Priest available to celebrate a Mass closer??

What percentage of you Parish are you? If there is no priest able or willing to celebrate the Mass, what else could be done?

You must look for a solution to your problem, and accept the results.

SuZ

 

[pnewton]

There is an underlying prejudice when the term novus ordo is used. What is really being refered to is the legitimate currentMass of Latin rite Catholics.

To choose to go to a church out of communion with the Church because you like a different Mass, makes as much sense as attending the Lutheran Church because you like the singing better.

The Church has always had the ability to change certain disciplinary aspects of liturgy. The Tridentine Mass was not the first Mass, nor is it the current normative Mass. There are still those who cling to the romantic notion that one day everything will be reversed and the Church will roll back the clock a hundred years. Maybe. No doubt the Flat Earth Society thinks the rest of us will all be proven wrong some day.

 

[Mysty101]

Philip,

There is a BIG difference between attending a non-Catholic service, and a legitimate Mass.

Although I do agree that the unity and openness to change are important the Tridentine Mass is allowed.

I hope this can somehow be resolved that all can have the legitimate option they prefer.

Unfortunately the SSPX is no longer an option—a good example of what stubbornness can do.

SuZ

 

[pnewton]

Mysty101:

Philip,

There is a BIG difference between attending a non-Catholic service, and a legitimate Mass.

SuZ

I agree. I was not refering to a legitimate Mass. If you want a more direct correlation, then an Episcipal service where the minister has valid orders or an Othodox, non-Catholic service.

Those who choose to leave the Catholic Church for the beauty of an SSPX liturgy should have superior knowledge of the concept of “outside the Church there is no salvation” and might be in greater peril than many Protestants.

 

[Sean_O_L]

Now, if you’ve got some historical information that refutes anything I’ve said, share it please… Why do you care to advertise to others that I’m “historically challenged” when you won’t lift a finger to explain to me my error? This is uncharitable of you towards me and arrogant of you towards others that you imagine they will accept what you say on your say-so alone without a shred of argumentation.

Just a few short comments - but too long to post here; so please go to HERE

Having viewed various correspondence over the past several years between Albert and Shawn McElhinney, and having browsed the two links provided by Albert - I do not presume that anything that I can say will make any difference.

 

[MeaCulpa]

And you would probably be correct, Sean.

I have my own definition of what SSPX stands for

Stubborn Schismatics Properly eXcommunicated

 

[bear06]

Sean O L:

Just a few short comments - but too long to post here; so please go to HERE

Having viewed various correspondence over the past several years between Albert and Shawn McElhinney, and having browsed the two links provided by Albert - I do not presume that anything that I can say will make any difference.

Mr. O, so glad to see you here! Any chance Mr. McElhinney, Vere, Erasmus, Grossklas, etc. will join us? You’re desperately needed! I’d love to see the boards “invaded” by you all!

 

[Sean_O_L]

Mr. O, so glad to see you here! Any chance Mr. McElhinney, Vere, Erasmus, Grossklas, etc. will join us? You’re desperately needed! I’d love to see the boards “invaded” by you all!

G’day bear06,

Thanks for the greeting. There is so much to do - so much penance to do for our past sins. I know Shawn, Pete and Bill (who with me are all former SSPXers) are very involved in doing what can be done. Dave, of course, has an enormous apologetics web-site.

 

[bear06]

Sean O L:

G’day bear06,

Thanks for the greeting. There is so much to do - so much penance to do for our past sins. I know Shawn, Pete and Bill (who with me are all former SSPXers) are very involved in doing what can be done. Dave, of course, has an enormous apologetics web-site.

Maybe you could post links to all of their sites. Many of these arguments are contained there. I would post them but I know a couple have changed. I’d actually like to have the updated list since I use them quite often.

Thanks for all of your work!