Just, Loving God + Eternal Damnation = ?!?

[ClemtheCatholic]

Sorry, I bet this question comes up a lot! I’m looking for simple facts. Perhaps these questions will help people capable of answering!

(1) Do the people in Hell wish they were in Heaven and united with God?
(2) Does God create people knowing they will end up in Hell?

Now I think about it, to me those two plain questions sum it up, particularly the first one. I’d really, really appreciate it if somebody could answer these questions and provide any further information as seems appropriate. I will probably end up replying with further doubts or confusions…!

God Bless and THANKS!
ClemtheCatholic

 

[catholictiger]

1. I would say yes they do, I have also heard they are in a way united with God but because they reject God the glory of heaven is like the fires of hell. I think its eastern theology, But probably what happens is people realize how bad they lived their life and because of that they have eternal regret. Its hard to know what it is like though, and hopefully very few of us know what it is like.
2. God sends noone to hell we send ourselves to hell. Think of this way a rich man invites an entire town to his house for a party, some people just ignore him and don’t come, others come well groomed well dressed and some people come not well dressed and not well groomed they are thrown out. God invites us all to heaven but we respond and be prepared to enter heaven God doesn’t forget to invite anyone its up to us to respond.

 

[MidnightSun12]

(1) Do the people in Hell wish they were in Heaven and united with God?
No. While the people in hell wish for their suffering to be relieved, they would much rather experience this suffering then be anywhere near God which is what heaven is. The damned soul hates God so much that it would throw itself violently into the fires of hell rather then go anywhere near heaven.

(2) Does God create people knowing they will end up in Hell?
Yes, while God gives us free-will, He also knows every decision that we will ever make in our lives before we are born. Our Lady at Fatima was able to tell Sister Lucy that she would be going to heaven when she died in spite of still giving her the free-will to make that decision.

Hope this helps!

 

[paduard]

(1) Do the people in Hell wish they were in Heaven and united with God?
No. While the people in hell wish for their suffering to be relieved, they would much rather experience this suffering then be anywhere near God which is what heaven is. The damned soul hates God so much that it would throw itself violently into the fires of hell rather then go anywhere near heaven.

(2) Does God create people knowing they will end up in Hell?
Yes, while God gives us free-will, He also knows every decision that we will ever make in our lives before we are born. Our Lady at Fatima was able to tell Sister Lucy that she would be going to heaven when she died in spite of still giving her the free-will to make that decision.

Hope this helps!

Yes I agree with most of that. Just a thought would prefer to replace ‘fires of hell’ with the term ‘captivity of hell’.

Regards.

 

[Jennifoo]

Why don’t you just look it up in the Catechism? I’m not trying to be rude, but I do not understand why you feel the need to start so many threads whose topic is easily and infallibly answered by our Catechism. I believe in keeping things simple. Also some of your threads come across as incendiary and provocative. I hope that’s not your intention, but that’s how they come across.

 

[MidnightSun12]

Why don’t you just look it up in the Catechism? I’m not trying to be rude, but I do not understand why you feel the need to start so many threads whose topic is easily and infallibly answered by our Catechism. I believe in keeping things simple. Also some of your threads come across as incendiary and provocative. I hope that’s not your intention, but that’s how they come across.

Let’s go easy on him, eh?

I would much rather have too many threads being started on CAF, then none at all!

 

[cheezey]

Let’s go easy on him, eh?

I would much rather have too many threads being started on CAF, then none at all!

agreed.

 

[bpcatholic]

I am reminded of a talk Fr. Robert Barron gave on this subject. He said that if you believe that God is love and the he has given us free will, then hell has to exist. Those who choose to reject God (read Love) end up in a state without God, which is hell.

 

[ChibiViolet]

1. The people in Hell hate God and hate themselves so it’s highly unlikely that they wish they were in Heaven.
2. God knows everything so yes, He does create people knowing they will go to Hell. It doesn’t make sense to me either.

 

[cheezey]

1. The people in Hell hate God and hate themselves so it’s highly unlikely that they wish they were in Heaven

OR people in hell love themselves too much and that’s why they are there…
just a thought…

 

[Ruthie_again]

Emphasis mine:

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

I’ve come to the conclusion, and this is my personal thought, that the punishment of Hell is complete loneliness. No interaction with anyone. It will be like when we were children, and got lost or left behind, and desperately cried out, “Where are you?”

To me, that is worse than any physical pain I could feel. And that state of loss and desperation would be mine for all eternity.

 

[ClemtheCatholic]

Why don’t you just look it up in the Catechism? I’m not trying to be rude, but I do not understand why you feel the need to start so many threads whose topic is easily and infallibly answered by our Catechism. I believe in keeping things simple. Also some of your threads come across as incendiary and provocative. I hope that’s not your intention, but that’s how they come across.

I recently finished reading the CCC from beginning to end (took 70 days ). I too believe in keeping things simple and for me the easiest way in many circumstances involves direct question answered by direct facts. The Youth Catechism does a pretty good job of this but this idea is not what the CCC was designed for. I too want to keep things simple for the most part. I find what I am doing to be simpler, more informative, and more helpful in this situation than if I just go and re-read the CCC… then again, some things just aren’t simple!

Right now I guess I could say I’m struggling a little with certain concepts (not teachings on morality but more philosophical issues) of my faith. Though, I still firmly believe that this is simply down to my lack (but continuously increasing amount) of knowledge! Please keep me in your prayers that I may have confidence and inspiration! And thank you very much to all who answered my questions…

 

[cheezey]

Right now I guess I could say I’m struggling a little with certain concepts (not teachings on morality but more philosophical issues) of my faith.

that’s what I need to convey. thanks for the idea and conciseness…

 

[jimmy]

(1) Do the people in Hell wish they were in Heaven and united with God?
No. While the people in hell wish for their suffering to be relieved, they would much rather experience this suffering then be anywhere near God which is what heaven is. The damned soul hates God so much that it would throw itself violently into the fires of hell rather then go anywhere near heaven.

From this we can conclude one of two things: either almost everyone will be in heaven, or upon death there is a change in a persons emotions and temperament that will lead them to hate God. Hardly anyone (if anyone) in this world ‘hates’ God in the way you describe it. They might not be perfect and sinless, but that is not synonymous with hating God, just like a man who hurts his wife in some way doesn’t necessarily hate her.

 

[jimmy]

Why don’t you just look it up in the Catechism? I’m not trying to be rude, but I do not understand why you feel the need to start so many threads whose topic is easily and infallibly answered by our Catechism. I believe in keeping things simple. Also some of your threads come across as incendiary and provocative. I hope that’s not your intention, but that’s how they come across.

In that light everyone should just quit coming to these forums, because there are better sources for information that people on an internet forum. But since the purpose of a forum is to discuss things with other people, then there is no reason for him not to post his questions.

 

[paduard]

In that light everyone should just quit coming to these forums, because there are better sources for information that people on an internet forum. But since the purpose of a forum is to discuss things with other people, then there is no reason for him not to post his questions.

Yes I agree; and even the text of such documents as the CCC can be subject to forum discussion in my opinion; especially if one accesses and attempts to take into account the various footnote refs which are more than just numerous.

 

[Jennifoo]

I stand by my original statement. As a convert and catechist I encourage fellow Catholics and anyone with questions to the CCC. If one has difficulty understanding it then one might prefer the Compendium to the CCC or Life in Christ. Catholicism for Dummies is also worthwhile reading.
But while I stated that the CCC is thorough, I did not say that it is exhaustive
Nor did I say that the CCC renders faith-based discussions unnecessary or useless. I do get frustrated, however, with threads topics that are stated in a provocative or incendiary manner, particularly if they are worded in such a manner as to encourage disrespect to cast doubt about the Church, Her teachings, Her ministers, etc.
Hope this clarifies my position a bit.

 

[ClemtheCatholic]

I stand by my original statement. As a convert and catechist I encourage fellow Catholics and anyone with questions to the CCC. If one has difficulty understanding it then one might prefer the Compendium to the CCC or Life in Christ. Catholicism for Dummies is also worthwhile reading.
But while I stated that the CCC is thorough, I did not say that it is exhaustive
Nor did I say that the CCC renders faith-based discussions unnecessary or useless. I do get frustrated, however, with threads topics that are stated in a provocative or incendiary manner, particularly if they are worded in such a manner as to encourage disrespect to cast doubt about the Church, Her teachings, Her ministers, etc.
Hope this clarifies my position a bit.

Okay, I understand where you’re coming from. Though, to be honest, I don’t really see why you find my questions so provocative and at the same time I feel the same of your comments have seemed a little “provocative”. Anyhow, I’m here to learn - not to get into petty arguments over how I’ve phrased my posts.

 

[raikou]

(1) Do the people in Hell wish they were in Heaven and united with God?

My answer is yes. One of the pains in hell is called “Pain of loss,” which is realizing that one could have had the unending bliss of heaven and God’s presence and they have this unquenchable yearning to achieve that, but instead one has been eternally damned.

But those in hell chose not to obey or love God. All they probably wanted was the consequence of this obedience (pleasure of heaven), and not the obedience itself. In a way, this still agrees with those who answered “no” to this question, because those in hell actually rejected God because they don’t want him entirely.

(2) Does God create people knowing they will end up in Hell?

Obviously yes, because there are souls in hell. I think the reason why God created such people is to manifest both his justice and mercy. Justice, because he has put them in their rightful place. Mercy, because even though he knew they would ultimately reject him, he still made them recipients of his blessings and graces during their time on earth (God allows the rain to fall on both the just and the unjust).

 

[roseproject]

Obviously yes, because there are souls in hell. I think the reason why God created such people is to manifest both his justice and mercy. Justice, because he has put them in their rightful place. Mercy, because even though he knew they would ultimately reject him, he still made them recipients of his blessings and graces during their time on earth (God allows the rain to fall on both the just and the unjust).

But God didn’t predestine anyone to that fate. No one is born to be eternally separated from Him. Why do we think we pray for the conversion of souls? “…and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.”