Just making sure RE: adultery

[fakename]

is it adultery when you fantasize about someone who turns out to be married? But you were unaware that he/she was?

(Of course you shouldn’t really be fantasizing about people to begin with, but I’m just wondering).

 

[1ke]

Adultery is sexual intercourse with someone other than your spouse.

Sins against the Sixth Commandment encompass more than adultery. What youd describe might be better termed lust-- which is also a sin against the sixth commandment.

 

[JRKH]

is it adultery when you fantasize about someone who turns out to be married? But you were unaware that he/she was?

(Of course you shouldn’t really be fantasizing about people to begin with, but I’m just wondering).

If you look at what Jesus says in Mt on the subject…the answer is yes it is adultery and it does not matter whether she is married or not. It also doesn’t matter whether YOU are married or not…

unless of course you are both married - and to each other…

Peace
James

 

[3DOCTORS]

There seems to be an amazing lot of confusion out there among non-Catholics and inadequately-catechized Catholics about what the 6th Commandment covers. (I refer them to the Catechism for clarification.)

 

[laircy]

(Of course you shouldn’t really be fantasizing about people to begin with, but I’m just wondering).

You got it. I think it’s more important to realize that something is a sin than to figure out what “type” of sin it is.

 

[fakename]

user "JRKH":

yes it is adultery and it does not matter whether she is married or not. It also doesn’t matter whether YOU are married or not…

But the circumstance of someone being married or not can make the adultery worse right?

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Agree with 1ke that the sixth commandment covers more than just “adultery” in the legal sense of a married person having sex outside of marriage. It covers all sorts of sexual sin.

That being said, I think that lusting after someone who is married is probably worse than lusting after someone who’s single, because you’re also breaking the tenth commandment about not coveting your neighbor’s wife (or other “possessions”). It might apply to lusting after someone who’s not married, but engaged or in a committed relationship.

 

[thistle]

is it adultery when you fantasize about someone who turns out to be married? But you were unaware that he/she was?

(Of course you shouldn’t really be fantasizing about people to begin with, but I’m just wondering).

CCC 2380 Adultery refers to marital infidelity. When two partners, of whom at least one is married to another party, have sexual relations - even transient ones - they commit adultery. Christ condemns even adultery of mere desire. The sixth commandment and the New Testament forbid adultery absolutely. The prophets denounce the gravity of adultery; they see it as an image of the sin of idolatry.

CCC 2381 Adultery is an injustice. He who commits adultery fails in his commitment. He does injury to the sign of the covenant which the marriage bond is, transgresses the rights of the other spouse, and undermines the institution of marriage by breaking the contract on which it is based. He compromises the good of human generation and the welfare of children who need their parents’ stable union.

CCC 2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

 

[JRKH]

But the circumstance of someone being married or not can make the adultery worse right?

Let’s see…I referred to Jesus words in Mt. If you "look at a woman with lust you have already committed adultery in your heart…I don’t see any mention of marital status here…

In the Old testament adultery was punishable with death by stoning…

Under the new covenant Adultery is “Grave Matter”…If you know adultery is a sin, and you intentionally fantasize about someone not your spouse…We are talking Mortal sin here…

SO - asking under what circumstances the adultery might be worse sounds a bit like asking if it’s worse to drown in 10 feet of water or 20 feet of water…Either way your dead…Mortal sin? Dead…

My advice is - DON’T DO IT…

Peace
James

 

[fakename]

“My advice is - DON’T DO IT…”

I know not to do it, the question is, does adultery become worse when the person doesn’t know that they’re fantasizing about a married woman/man.

The only way I can see it not being worse, is if the lack of knowledge is so great that it becomes involuntary however, I would suggest that ignorance in this matter is sinful, for you should know that someone is free before making advances…

 

[thistle]

Let’s see…I referred to Jesus words in Mt. If you "look at a woman with lust you have already committed adultery in your heart….I don’t see any mention of marital status here…

In the Old testament adultery was punishable with death by stoning…

Under the new covenant Adultery is “Grave Matter”…If you know adultery is a sin, and you intentionally fantasize about someone not your spouse…We are talking Mortal sin here…

SO - asking under what circumstances the adultery might be worse sounds a bit like asking if it’s worse to drown in 10 feet of water or 20 feet of water…Either way your dead…Mortal sin? Dead…

My advice is - DON’T DO IT…

Peace
James

Adultery is when a married person has sexual relations with a person other than their spouse, whether the other person is married or not. It always involves a married person.

Fornication on the other hand is sexual relations between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman.

 

[JRKH]

Adultery is when a married person has sexual relations with a person other than their spouse, whether the other person is married or not. It always involves a married person.

Fornication on the other hand is sexual relations between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman.

Thistle,
Thank you for the correction and clarification. You are indeed correct.

“My advice is - DON’T DO IT…”

I know not to do it, the question is, does adultery become worse when the person doesn’t know that they’re fantasizing about a married woman/man.

The only way I can see it not being worse, is if the lack of knowledge is so great that it becomes involuntary however, I would suggest that ignorance in this matter is sinful, for you should know that someone is free before making advances…

The problem is that you are trying to define the wrong question. Which thing is “worse” might be appropriate for a venial sin as it relates to how much time one spends in purgatory, but “worse” has absolutely no practical bearing as it relates to a mortal sin.
Married, Single whats the diff?? Do you think it will make any difference to the devil which way he gets you into his clutches??

It strikes me as odd that we have so many threads here trying to split hairs on just what is more “unholy” (worse sin). How does such a viewpoint and outlook reflect on our relationship with God? How does such an outlook help one to turn away from sin and toward God?

It seems to me that worrying over such matters are like trying to walk the narrow path to the narrow gate backwards. It’s like trying to move toward heaven while constantly looking towards hell. If you saw someone walking backwards down a road, would you not think it strange? Would you not ask - “Why don’t you turn around and point yourself in the direction you are going before you fall in a ditch?”
If you were being pursued by a wolf or a bear and you are running toward the safety of you house which is faster and more sure - Running frontwards or running backwards? Running frontwards and concentrating on the goal or constantly looking over you shoulder?

If, as you say, you know that you should not do it, then that is sufficient to the need. As I suggested in my earlier post, it makes no difference how deep the water is that one drowns in. It makes no difference how large the bullet is that pierces the heart and kills.

Sorry for my rambling a bit but after struggling with these things myself I have come to the conclusion that such focus, such effort is a waste of time…We are better off to turn and concentrate on what is more Holy - not on what is more sinful.

Peace
James

 

[thistle]

Thistle,
Thank you for the correction and clarification. You are indeed correct.

The problem is that you are trying to define the wrong question. Which thing is “worse” might be appropriate for a venial sin as it relates to how much time one spends in purgatory, but “worse” has absolutely no practical bearing as it relates to a mortal sin.
Married, Single whats the diff?? Do you think it will make any difference to the devil which way he gets you into his clutches??

It strikes me as odd that we have so many threads here trying to split hairs on just what is more “unholy” (worse sin). How does such a viewpoint and outlook reflect on our relationship with God? How does such an outlook help one to turn away from sin and toward God?

It seems to me that worrying over such matters are like trying to walk the narrow path to the narrow gate backwards. It’s like trying to move toward heaven while constantly looking towards hell. If you saw someone walking backwards down a road, would you not think it strange? Would you not ask - “Why don’t you turn around and point yourself in the direction you are going before you fall in a ditch?”
If you were being pursued by a wolf or a bear and you are running toward the safety of you house which is faster and more sure - Running frontwards or running backwards? Running frontwards and concentrating on the goal or constantly looking over you shoulder?

If, as you say, you know that you should not do it, then that is sufficient to the need. As I suggested in my earlier post, it makes no difference how deep the water is that one drowns in. It makes no difference how large the bullet is that pierces the heart and kills.

Sorry for my rambling a bit but after struggling with these things myself I have come to the conclusion that such focus, such effort is a waste of time…We are better off to turn and concentrate on what is more Holy - not on what is more sinful.

Peace
James

I agree.

 

[fakename]

**"The problem is that you are trying to define the wrong question. Which thing is “worse” might be appropriate for a venial sin as it relates to how much time one spends in purgatory, but “worse” has absolutely no practical bearing as it relates to a mortal sin.
Married, Single whats the diff?? Do you think it will make any difference to the devil which way he gets you into his clutches??

It strikes me as odd that we have so many threads here trying to split hairs on just what is more “unholy” (worse sin). How does such a viewpoint and outlook reflect on our relationship with God? How does such an outlook help one to turn away from sin and toward God?

It seems to me that worrying over such matters are like trying to walk the narrow path to the narrow gate backwards. It’s like trying to move toward heaven while constantly looking towards hell. If you saw someone walking backwards down a road, would you not think it strange? Would you not ask - “Why don’t you turn around and point yourself in the direction you are going before you fall in a ditch?”
If you were being pursued by a wolf or a bear and you are running toward the safety of you house which is faster and more sure - Running frontwards or running backwards? Running frontwards and concentrating on the goal or constantly looking over you shoulder?

If, as you say, you know that you should not do it, then that is sufficient to the need. As I suggested in my earlier post, it makes no difference how deep the water is that one drowns in. It makes no difference how large the bullet is that pierces the heart and kills.

Sorry for my rambling a bit but after struggling with these things myself I have come to the conclusion that such focus, such effort is a waste of time…We are better off to turn and concentrate on what is more Holy - not on what is more sinful"**

The point of this question is to check a moral principle to see if I understand it correctly and it is a goal that is not reached when the question is not answered.

First Request: please answer the question.

Second Request: if adultery refers to marriage, then fantasizing about unmarried persons is more like fornication?

 

[bmullins]

Second Request: if adultery refers to marriage, then fantasizing about unmarried persons is more like fornication?

This is indeed the proper way to look at it. Lusting after a woman in any sense is a sin, because it’s against the dignity that she deserves as someone created in God’s image. There is a big difference in being aroused and enjoying your wife’s touch and the thought of her… but even if a married man reduces his wife to simply an object of lust, then he too has committed offense.

 

[Catholicpotato]

Let’s see…I referred to Jesus words in Mt. If you "look at a woman with lust you have already committed adultery in your heart…I don’t see any mention of marital status here…

In the Old testament adultery was punishable with death by stoning…

Under the new covenant Adultery is “Grave Matter”…If you know adultery is a sin, and you intentionally fantasize about someone not your spouse…We are talking Mortal sin here…

SO - asking under what circumstances the adultery might be worse sounds a bit like asking if it’s worse to drown in 10 feet of water or 20 feet of water…Either way your dead…Mortal sin? Dead…

My advice is - DON’T DO IT…

Peace
James

I like to think of it as committing adultery in the future. You or that other person will probably be married someday, and probably not to you…

 

[thistle]

**"The problem is that you are trying to define the wrong question. Which thing is “worse” might be appropriate for a venial sin as it relates to how much time one spends in purgatory, but “worse” has absolutely no practical bearing as it relates to a mortal sin.
Married, Single whats the diff?? Do you think it will make any difference to the devil which way he gets you into his clutches??

It strikes me as odd that we have so many threads here trying to split hairs on just what is more “unholy” (worse sin). How does such a viewpoint and outlook reflect on our relationship with God? How does such an outlook help one to turn away from sin and toward God?

It seems to me that worrying over such matters are like trying to walk the narrow path to the narrow gate backwards. It’s like trying to move toward heaven while constantly looking towards hell. If you saw someone walking backwards down a road, would you not think it strange? Would you not ask - “Why don’t you turn around and point yourself in the direction you are going before you fall in a ditch?”
If you were being pursued by a wolf or a bear and you are running toward the safety of you house which is faster and more sure - Running frontwards or running backwards? Running frontwards and concentrating on the goal or constantly looking over you shoulder?

If, as you say, you know that you should not do it, then that is sufficient to the need. As I suggested in my earlier post, it makes no difference how deep the water is that one drowns in. It makes no difference how large the bullet is that pierces the heart and kills.

Sorry for my rambling a bit but after struggling with these things myself I have come to the conclusion that such focus, such effort is a waste of time…We are better off to turn and concentrate on what is more Holy - not on what is more sinful"**

The point of this question is to check a moral principle to see if I understand it correctly and it is a goal that is not reached when the question is not answered.

First Request: please answer the question.

Second Request: if adultery refers to marriage, then fantasizing about unmarried persons is more like fornication?

Whether its lust, fornication or adultery is irrelevant. All are sins of grave matter and to be avoided. Just because one mortal sin may be worse than another does not help you as they ALL land you in Hell if you die unrepentant.

 

[JRKH]

The point of this question is to check a moral principle to see if I understand it correctly and it is a goal that is not reached when the question is not answered.

First Request: please answer the question.

Second Request: if adultery refers to marriage, then fantasizing about unmarried persons is more like fornication?

My apologies…Obviously I am not the one to assist you in this. I will listen in though as others try to help…

Peace
James

 

[Biblepoe]

Sins against the Sixth Commandment encompass more than adultery.

Why is that since the sixth commandment only mentions a prohibition on adultery (intercourse with another’s spouse)?

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

-Exodus 20:14

Also, Yahweh seemed to be OK with David having concubines well after He gave the Ten Commandments to Moses:

And David went on, and grew great, and the LORD God of hosts was with him. And Hiram king of Tyre sent messengers to David, and cedar trees, and carpenters, and masons: and they built David an house. And David perceived that the LORD had established him king over Israel, and that he had exalted his kingdom for his people Israel’s sake. And David took him more concubines and wives*out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David.

-2 Samuel 5:10-13

 

[fakename]

Just to emphasize it again, my question is a very simple moral theology question -does the unknown fact about a person change the moral qualities of the acts done to them by the agent who is ignorant of such facts?

My example about someone who mistakenly imagines having sex with a single woman who is in fact, not single, is an instance of the above question; a test scenario.

So in that case would the sin be magnified?