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kristacecilia
Guest
My “statement” was in the form of two QUESTIONS addressed to the original hypothetical woman. They were legitimate questions about the hypothetical situation.
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kristacecilia
Guest
Your loss.
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BingoBoy
Guest
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emmar
Guest
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kristacecilia
Guest
I think less people are ‘thriving’ on having a lot of kids than you think. Some people just do it because they follow Church teaching. And they accept the sacrifices that come along with it as part of their path to holiness.
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emmar
Guest
Yep, we are definitely not all the Duggars. Though growing up in very conservative Catholic group. All my friends from large families…every single one has left the Church. The main thing they had a problem with, especially the girls…they were never allowed to just be teenagers, they had school and then taking care of all the kids because Mom was pregnant again and not feeling good, or busy with other kids. I just think a couple should consider how having another child will affect the children already present. It’s not always a good thing. True some families are large and that is their gift and their calling. I just think in our society today where most families HAVE to have both spouses working in order to stay out of bankruptcy and keep a house, having a large family is not realistic. And I’m not talking about having frivolous extras…I’m talking about the bare necessities to get by.
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Castello
Guest
In the United States it is against the law to fire someone because they are pregnant. If someone is on bed rest, they are covered by the ADA as well as the FMLA.
It is the end of the world losing a house or declaring bankruptcy? We lost everything 3 years ago, not from a baby but from the economy causing a job to end. Christ specifically told us not to lay up treasure in this world because events can wipe it away. We learned that lesson the hard way.
Financial loss is not the end of the world, in fact, what did Jesus say about the poor? To avoid children because one wishes to be rich is the most selfish reason of all.
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emmar
Guest
But Christ does call us to be responsible stewards. Deciding how many kids to have should take into account being a good steward. That involves planning for the future. I don’t think we should try to become rich, but I think we need to pray and think carefully about making decisions of such levity. Again, back to the just reasons to avoid. As mentioned before it is selfish to have more kids just because the couple wants them…they have the responsibility to take into account whether they can support the physical, mental, and social demands of raising a child. If they can’t support that than they should avoid. Or if another child will harm the mother or existing child, they should take that into account as well. BTW…FMLA…you’re not getting your full salary.
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Castello
Guest
Your post stated someone could be fired because they are pregnant. I responded that in the USA that is not true as the law protects from that.
Again “full salary” is something that can be gone in the next 5 minutes because your company goes out of business. None of us are guaranteed our next sunrise, let alone our next paycheck.
Again “full salary” is something that can be gone in the next 5 minutes because your company goes out of business. None of us are guaranteed our next sunrise, let alone our next paycheck.
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BingoBoy
Guest
There is no Church teaching that says we have to have 8 kids.
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kristacecilia
Guest
No one here has every said there was.
What we have said (ad nauseum) is that couples must be open to life, live according to the Church’s teachings on married sexuality (only abstain with just/serious reason), and be generous with their fertility and material wealth.
For MOST couples that will translate to more than 1.8 kids. Not for all.
My children, with all the suffering they bring me, are the greatest blessings in my life.
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BingoBoy
Guest
Declaring bankruptcy is not the worst thing that can happen in the world, no. But what exactly are you saying? Are you saying people should risk bankruptcy and keep having children they know they can’t afford? There is nothing wrong with avoiding pregnancy in order to avoid bankruptcy.
Now as for the Jesus/rich comment - you are taking things way into the extreme. No one here is saying people should avoid having kids so that they can be rich!
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LittleDeb
Guest
Oh WOW. This is one of those threads where I just can’t believe how many times that my life has been torn through the shredder. I have only 2 children. I am probably done having kids. God has called me to a small family. I really thought that I would be called to at least 4, if not 6,7, or 8. But those who are tearing my life through the shredder are not those with big families. *
BingoBoy*, you really don’t get how you are coming across.
That woman heart surgeon? Her career doesn’t matter. That *male *heart surgeon, a man who cures cancer, my *male *friend who is trying hard to be on the first manned mission to Mars? His career doesn’t matter either! **God **is the Divine Physician. He calls who He calls. God is the heart surgeon; the mother is merely using HIS gifts, not her own. God cures cancer; to believe otherwise is arrogant. I think you can agree with that.
Our jobs are just of this life. To be a parent is eternal. I have never had anything but support from the wonderful ladies here that *you *are accusing of narrow-mindedness. Never once has one said, “Well, Deb, you are selfish because you only have 2.” (Usually I get, “Wow you had 2?!” since my second was a huge leap of faith.)
Parenting is not something you do just when there are bottoms to be cleaned and noses to be wiped. My parents are entering their 70s and they are still parents! They have many more years of wisdom than I do.
Please rethink what you are saying, BingoBoy. You are saying that I, who has a small family, needs to justify that in some way that other people can understand. Well, you aren’t really saying that since you gave my situation the “bad health disclaimer.”
But, you are encouraging other people to post in this thread their personal reasons they felt called to limit their family size, then you have rejected the very idea that 2 or 3 are not enough for some people. Many of these ladies didn’t limit their family size, and you are taking them to task for it? Are you threatened by their large families? I am certainly not. I celebrate each additional life. There is not a woman or man who knows me here on CAF who doubts the sincerity of my husband and my prayers of discernment. Yet, here you are comparing my situation (my husband’s and mine) to a person who finds career more important than family, because we “only have 2 children”.
No one, not man or woman, needs to find their ultimate fulfillment in their job. If that is really what you are proposing, I think you need to take a hard look at what your “beef” with large families is, in actuality. My husband is the sole breadwinner in our family. He is a husband first, father second, and his lifelong career as a chef is waaaaay down the list.
Please don’t encourage *anyone *to put career or “comfort” over family. They will lose in the end.
BingoBoy*, you really don’t get how you are coming across.
That woman heart surgeon? Her career doesn’t matter. That *male *heart surgeon, a man who cures cancer, my *male *friend who is trying hard to be on the first manned mission to Mars? His career doesn’t matter either! **God **is the Divine Physician. He calls who He calls. God is the heart surgeon; the mother is merely using HIS gifts, not her own. God cures cancer; to believe otherwise is arrogant. I think you can agree with that.
Our jobs are just of this life. To be a parent is eternal. I have never had anything but support from the wonderful ladies here that *you *are accusing of narrow-mindedness. Never once has one said, “Well, Deb, you are selfish because you only have 2.” (Usually I get, “Wow you had 2?!” since my second was a huge leap of faith.)
Parenting is not something you do just when there are bottoms to be cleaned and noses to be wiped. My parents are entering their 70s and they are still parents! They have many more years of wisdom than I do.
Please rethink what you are saying, BingoBoy. You are saying that I, who has a small family, needs to justify that in some way that other people can understand. Well, you aren’t really saying that since you gave my situation the “bad health disclaimer.”
But, you are encouraging other people to post in this thread their personal reasons they felt called to limit their family size, then you have rejected the very idea that 2 or 3 are not enough for some people. Many of these ladies didn’t limit their family size, and you are taking them to task for it? Are you threatened by their large families? I am certainly not. I celebrate each additional life. There is not a woman or man who knows me here on CAF who doubts the sincerity of my husband and my prayers of discernment. Yet, here you are comparing my situation (my husband’s and mine) to a person who finds career more important than family, because we “only have 2 children”.
No one, not man or woman, needs to find their ultimate fulfillment in their job. If that is really what you are proposing, I think you need to take a hard look at what your “beef” with large families is, in actuality. My husband is the sole breadwinner in our family. He is a husband first, father second, and his lifelong career as a chef is waaaaay down the list.
Please don’t encourage *anyone *to put career or “comfort” over family. They will lose in the end.
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kristacecilia
Guest
Which is greater- bringing a new life into the world or avoiding bankruptcy? There have been several threads on this topic already, by the way.
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BingoBoy
Guest
Do you have proof of this??
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BingoBoy
Guest
Haha… well then why in the world is there such thing as “a couple can avoid pregnancy for just reasons” if even putting your family in bankruptcy is not a “just” enough reason for you?? This is getting absurd!
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BingoBoy
Guest
Apparently everyone should be having kids until they go bankrupt.
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BingoBoy
Guest
sigh
Apparently saying that not everyone is fit to have a large family and not every woman is called to be a mother to lots of kids, is insulting to some people.
Well, can’t please everyone. I stand by what I say. I think people are different and I think that not everyone is called to have a large family, and I think some people have other gifts that can be put to good use as well.
If that offends you or puts your life “through the shredder,” well… I guess I don’t really know what to say to you except sorry my opinion insults you so much.
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Rence
Guest
In all fairness, this post makes it sound like people should have kids because it’s more important to have them rather than be happy or comfortable in one’s life. It’s almost as if one is encouraged to burden oneself for the sake of not having comfort so that they can be saintly – by having more children. I don’t believe that’s a teaching of the Church. I do believe that one can be happy in their life and be close to God. We don’t need to purposely create burdens in our life that make us unhappy and stressed out. Not only that, the above concedes to the fact that raising larger families is burdensome and challenging. Why would anyone want to purposely burden themselves and make themselves unhappy?
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kristacecilia
Guest
:banghead::banghead::banghead:
Wha?
The only thing I have left to say is this:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
And with that, I am outta here. If people want to disregard Church teaching, misquote people, and generally be illogical and irrational, they can do it without me.
See-ya!
Wha?
The only thing I have left to say is this:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
And with that, I am outta here. If people want to disregard Church teaching, misquote people, and generally be illogical and irrational, they can do it without me.
See-ya!
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