JUST reasons, and children

[RedSoxWife]

Well maybe you should have done that before you accused me of slamming everyone on the thread… just to be sure I actually did. I think I used the term “narrow minded” once, and it wasn’t directed at anyone in particular. I’m pretty sure I said something along the lines of “people continue to be narrow minded about this…” or something. Either way, I wouldn’t consider that to be slamming everyone, especially considering the much worse things said to ME.

Well none of them I thought, unless you can point me to a Catholic Doctrine that states that people with the “just reason” I presented DO in fact put career ahead of family, think of children as burdens, and are actually mistaken about what they consider to be just reasons.

Can you point to me where someone has said a child would ruin a women’s life? I know I’ve talked about avoiding more children for the good of the family for a reason that **I **thought was just. I DONT remember saying a child would ruin someone’s life.

A few of them have most certainly encouraged prayer and discernment. While others, including yourself, have bashed my opinion of what a just reason is. Either way, this has nothing to do with my life bc I’m not married. It was all a hypothetical scenario constructed by me to make a point.

When did I call someone a name? Please let me know, because I don’t recall doing so.

I’m sorry, you won’t even read my entire posts, so I’m not going to waste a night of sewing (which is the business the supports my family) going back to find every less than friendly thing you’ve said to people on this thread. I didn’t have to “go back to make sure you’d done it” because it’s been your tone from the very beginning (or very near the beginning). Any person who didn’t agree with you was some radical Catholic who “didn’t get it.”

And where have I “bashed” your opinion of a just reason? Really, go back and find it. Frankly, I don’t know what you’re opinion is. I don’t know what decisions you’ve made in real life. I figured we were largely dealing in hypotheticals, since you began the thread that way.

I’ve said over and over again we’re called to put our relationship with God first and work towards holiness. If that’s “bashing” what you believe there’s a serious problem.

I’ve asked you a lot of questions honestly trying to clarify what you’re saying. You haven’t answered one of them. I’ve made an effort to answer all of your questions. I’ve done my best to be honest. (And sorry I took the repeated us of “narrow minded” as name calling). Will you answer this one: Do you have a problem with ongoing discernment? That’s pretty much what we’re suggesting. That a couple discern each month whether they have a reason to avoid? Because I got the impression (please answer and correct me if I’m wrong) that you were saying that it was appropriate for a family to decide the wife would be working, that another child could make that difficult and that thus, it was appropriate to avoid forever, and no further discernment was necessary.

 

[BingoBoy]

I’m sorry, you won’t even read my entire posts, so I’m not going to waste a night of sewing (which is the business the supports my family) going back to find every less than friendly thing you’ve said to people on this thread. I didn’t have to “go back to make sure you’d done it” because it’s been your tone from the very beginning (or very near the beginning). Any person who didn’t agree with you was some radical Catholic who “didn’t get it.”

Of your dozens of posts, there was ONE that I said I skimmed over and didn’t read word per word. You don’t have to make it a bigger deal than it is. As for being “unfriendly,” I asked you to point out where I’ve been rude and slamming people, and all you’ve given me was that I referred to you guys as “you people” and I used the term narrow minded once. So I guess we can’t go any further with that, since you won’t present any evidence.

 

[RedSoxWife]

Of your dozens of posts, there was ONE that I said I skimmed over and didn’t read word per word. You don’t have to make it a bigger deal than it is. As for being “unfriendly,” I asked you to point out where I’ve been rude and slamming people, and all you’ve given me was that I referred to you guys as “you people” and I used the term narrow minded once. So I guess we can’t go any further with that, since you won’t present any evidence.

Putting aside any references to politeness or rudeness, will you answer the question I posed in that last post. I’ve asked you many questions. You haven’t answered any. Again, I’ve tried, with the exception of refusing to re-read this entire thread, to answer all of your questions. Do you think you could answer any of my thread-related questions instead of quibbling over who said what annoying statement?

 

[BingoBoy]

And where have I “bashed” your opinion of a just reason? Really, go back and find it. Frankly, I don’t know what you’re opinion is. I don’t know what decisions you’ve made in real life. I figured we were largely dealing in hypotheticals, since you began the thread that way.

I have stated my opinion multiple times of what I think may be a just reason to avoid. The working women who only has 2 kids so that she can use her other talents outside the home… as a doctor who saves lives. She doesn’t feel comfortable having more than 2 because she believes God calls her to be a doctor as well as a mother and she doesn’t think she can handle more than 2 kids while having a prestigious, demanding career.

This was your response to the above:

Originally posted by RedSoxWife
We’re not called to be comfortable. We’re called to strive for holiness. There are certainly many reasons to avoid. But because we’re “not comfortable?” Not comfortable certainly doesn’t sound “serious.”

And again, where do see Jesus promising us happiness in this life? We’re called to strive for sainthood. Have you ever heard a tale of sainthood that involved ease or comfort?

What’s more important: this life or the next? Happiness and comfort here or eternity?

So see where you’ve bashed my reasoning? You do it throughout this whole thread. Above is the first post I found when looking back.

 

[BingoBoy]

I’ve said over and over again we’re called to put our relationship with God first and work towards holiness. If that’s “bashing” what you believe there’s a serious problem.

No, what’s bashing is you claiming that MY views are not putting God first or working towards holiness. I think a women can work toward holiness by using her skills for good outside the home as well, while having 2 kids so that she can balance her time.

 

[RedSoxWife]

I have stated my opinion multiple times of what I think may be a just reason to avoid. The working women who only has 2 kids so that she can use her other talents outside the home… as a doctor who saves lives. She doesn’t feel comfortable having more than 2 because she believes God calls her to be a doctor as well as a mother and she doesn’t think she can handle more than 2 kids while having a prestigious, demanding career.

This was your response to the above:

So see where you’ve bashed my reasoning? You do it throughout this whole thread. Above is the first post I found when looking back.

Saying we’re not called to be comfortable, we’re called to strive for holiness is bashing you? Saying that we’re called to strive for sainthood is bashing you? I’m sorry, those are theoretical statements that weren’t meant as personal insults. I’m sorry you read more into them than was written, but they were intended to help you see the world in a different way, not insult you.

 

[RedSoxWife]

No, what’s bashing is you claiming that MY views are not putting God first or working towards holiness. I think a women can work toward holiness by using her skills for good outside the home as well, while having 2 kids so that she can balance her time.

No one said that a woman couldn’t work outside the home and do good works. We’ve gone round and round on this one. I gave examples of woman I know who do just that and have larger families (to show that it could in fact be done). You basically said in the post following that those examples don’t matter and disregarded them as irrelevent.

If you took every theoretical post on holiness I made as a personal insult I’m very sorry. But that’s never how they were intended. I was trying to point out that this world wasn’t the most important thing. That in our vocations our families should come first. That doesn’t exclude a career. I’ve never said it did.

BingoBoy, you posted this as a hypothetical. I answered it as such. No one here can judge you’re reasons for doing whatever you’re doing in your marriage. I certainly didn’t mean for you to read more into my posts intentions that didn’t exist when I typed them. I honestly don’t see where you’re getting “bashing” and personal attacks in those words. But I am sorry you feel that way.

 

[RedSoxWife]

And since this thread has long exhausted any claim to moving forward, I will leave it.

May God Bless your night BingoBoy. I do regret that you found so many offensive statements between the lines of my posts.

 

[Rence]

I don’t think Rence was saying children are burdens. Looks to me like she was saying they could CAUSE burden. Which they can. Even the Church uses the term “financial burden” when outlining just reasons to avoid children.

This has been taken way out of perspective.

You’re right, Rence wasn’t saying that children are burdens. Children are not burdens. Thank you. What I was referring to is what was written in HV regarding “responsible parenthood”. If you know you’re on tilt for whatever reason (economic, emotional, physical, etc., even a combination of factors), and you knowingly throw caution to the wind and become pregnant adding to the distress you’re already feeling, then you’re burdening youreself needlessly. However, if people want to do that to themselves and their family, I have no problem with it because afterall, that might be part of their calling. What I have a problem with is “outsiders” throwing their $0.02 in the mix by calling out other families to do the same and saying that they should burden themselves because it’s supposed to be hard, and one doesn’t have the right to be happy and secure in this life. Some people are called to have large families, and those families are having them. But some people are called to have small families, and those families are having them.

 

[BingoBoy]

I do regret that you found so many offensive statements between the lines of my posts.

Right back at ya, RedSox!

 

[BingoBoy]

You’re right, Rence wasn’t saying that children are burdens. Children are not burdens. Thank you. What I was referring to is what was written in HV regarding “responsible parenthood”. If you know you’re on tilt for whatever reason (economic, emotional, physical, etc., even a combination of factors), and you knowingly throw caution to the wind and become pregnant adding to the distress you’re already feeling, then you’re burdening youreself needlessly. However, if people want to do that to themselves and their family, I have no problem with it because afterall, that might be part of their calling. What I have a problem with is “outsiders” throwing their $0.02 in the mix by calling out other families to do the same and saying that they should burden themselves because it’s supposed to be hard, and one doesn’t have the right to be happy and secure in this life. Some people are called to have large families, and those families are having them. But some people are called to have small families, and those families are having them.

Absolutely!!! :clapping: