Just received a trespassing warning

[asia53]

Generally, I’d agree with you, but this is not a person’s house; this is a shopping complex, with public walk paths out front of each shop, and where I was could just have easily been considered an elevator lobby.

I recognize that not moving was probably pretty stupid of me, however, I don’t think they should be able to claim that something is their property, when it could just as easily be deemed a public path, and not have any way of demonstrating that it is, in fact, theirs. The equivalent would be someone in an conference room across from the elevators in a hotel asking you to leave the elevator area.

Regardless, I realize that I acted stupidly, whether I think they’re right or not.

I see your point. Maybe the secretary shouldn’t have used the term “private property”. I know, here, we’re told to move out of the Buffer Zone.

Please don’t let this discourage you. You just need to find the right spot.

 

[revert_jen]

As to producing, a rental agreement. This is ridiculous! If someone camps out on my front lawn, I have to produce my house deed to get them to leave???

Possibly, but I know that where my parents live, the sidewalk is considered public property. If someone “camps out” on the sidewalk in front of their house, there’s nothing they can do.

To the OP: I think you should tell your wife, and the sooner the better. It only gets worse with waiting, and if she finds out and you haven’t told her yourself, well, women generally hate that sort of thing quite a bit. Not only does it make us feel like we look stupid to the person who told us (“What, you didn’t know? But he’s your husband!”), but it also makes us wonder what else we don’t know about. So bite the bullet and get it over.

–Jen

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Possibly, but I know that where my parents live, the sidewalk is considered public property. If someone “camps out” on the sidewalk in front of their house, there’s nothing they can do.

My understanding is that Texas laws is the same, though my understanding is quite limited.

To the OP: I think you should tell your wife, and the sooner the better. It only gets worse with waiting, and if she finds out and you haven’t told her yourself, well, women generally hate that sort of thing quite a bit. Not only does it make us feel like we look stupid to the person who told us (“What, you didn’t know? But he’s your husband!”), but it also makes us wonder what else we don’t know about. So bite the bullet and get it over.

Yeah, that’s the conclusion I’ve reached as well… now I’m just waiting with sickened stomach until she calls when she leaves work… Pray for me please…I’m scared…

If it was in a shopping center, why didn’t you just pray in your car in the parking lot? God can hear your prayers from anywhere.

I felt that the most good would be done by praying somewhere where the people inside could see that there was someone praying for them and their children.

Also, to those asking why I didn’t pray in my car. That would be because I walked there from work >_>

 

[George_Stegmeir]

Do yourself a favor. Instead of bemoaning your experience on the internet, Why not use some common sense and go to your local County Courthouse and examine the property records for the address where the abortion clinic is located. Those records will clearly delineate where the property lines are. I would have an official copy made (that shouldn’t cost too much) and have it with you when you pray near the clinic. In that way, you will be obeying the law by staying off their property. If the clinic does anything after that to stop you, engage a lawyer and sue everyone in sight! They may have rights, but so do you!

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Do yourself a favor. Instead of bemoaning your experience on the internet, Why not use some common sense and go to your local County Courthouse and examine the property records for the address where the abortion clinic is located. Those records will clearly delineate where the property lines are. I would have an official copy made (that shouldn’t cost too much) and have it with you when you pray near the clinic. In that way, you will be obeying the law by staying off their property. If the clinic does anything after that to stop you, engage a lawyer and sue everyone in sight! They may have rights, but so do you!

My intent was not so much to bemoan my situation as it was to vent a little, because I was ticked off >> Having calmed down, I realize that I may not have acted in the most rational way possible. I did consider checking the property information, but that would require me to contact the building owner, and I haven’t the slightest who that is. Additionally, I don’t want to push my luck, and I don’t have the funds to hire a lawyer >>

 

[WiccanWoman]

Were you standing still?

It is my understanding that if you are walking (back and forth) that it may not be trespassing. Not sure, though. Call the police and ask them what would trespassing encompass if someone was in front of your residence doing something similar, and apply those rules to your own situation.

You really should consult an attorney (get a free consult).

Best wishes to you.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Were you standing still?

It is my understanding that if you are walking (back and forth) that it may not be trespassing. Not sure, though. Call the police and ask them what would trespassing encompass if someone was in front of your residence doing something similar, and apply those rules to your own situation.

You really should consult an attorney (get a free consult).

Best wishes to you.

I was sitting, and, while I was in front of the door, I was not in the travel path. I don’t think I’m going to pursue legal action on it, since it was only a warning.

Thank you though ^^

 

[Michael57]

First - tell your wife.

Second - know/learn the laws regarding your action, they are engaged in lawfare against you in this, if you don’t understand the rules, then you will be arrested again and imprisioned/fined, etc. And that would affect your wife as well, financially.

Third - be prudent.

Fourth - Thank you for praying for an end to abortion. God bless you.

Praying for you in all of this…

Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.

Amen

 

[1ke]

I want to tell my wife, but I’m also scared to death to tell her. If I had been arrested, I probably would have lost my job…

Has anyone else been in this situation? Advice would be greatly appreciated…

I suggest you contact your local pro life group(s) and work with them. They will know exactly where property lines are, what the city and state ordinances are, and how you can legally and peacefully exercise your right to pray in front of the PP without violating the law or running afoul of ordinances or property lines.

Secondly, never go to PP alone and always have your video camera taping. I encourage you to get with your local pro life group because they have this all worked out. If there isn’t one locally, I urge you to connect with the Coalition for Life (Bryan, TX or Houston, TX) or American Life League.

 

[RoseMary131]

I may be writing something that has already been written in this thread. I only had time to read the first post.

You can contact your Diocese Respect Life Director, who may be able to give you the exact information on what is public property around the Planned Parenthood and other abortion mills in your diocese.

You can also ask the Diocese Respect Life Director for exact laws to follow when praying outside of these places.

Another place to ask for advice is 40 Days for Life. While they may not be aware of the exact property lines of this specific PP, they will give you advise on where to pray, yet remain within the laws.

I’m very sure the PP has the exact property lines available at their fingertips.

You may also read on the 40 Days website other stories of abortion mills/ PP that do all sorts of things to keep prayer warriors away. The 40 Days for Life campaign began today, Sept. 25 - Nov 3. 40daysforlife.com/

Priests for Life may also give you advice. priestsforlife.org/

You can find wonderful advice from Helpers of God’s Precious Infants, who also pray outside of abortion mills. helpersbrooklynny.org/mission2.htm

Prayer book from Helpers of God’s Precious Infants for praying outside of abortion mills. archindy.org/prolife/documents/HGPI.pdf

Please always follow the law (as you were trying to do… and possible were doing).

Please do not let this trouble your soul.

May you find peace in knowing you did not intentionally break any law (possibly, didn’t break any laws at all.)

May your wife find peace in knowing her husband may be helping mothers to change their minds - meaning maybe a baby lived because of you and maybe a mother will not suffer a lifetime because of you.

A side story that I was told: A cab driver once told a prayer warrior that when his daughter told him that she was pregnant, it was because of prayer warriors he had witnessed that he knew to tell his daughter not to abort her child. It was because of what he had witnessed before his daughter was ever pregnant, that he knew the right choice to make when she faced an unplanned pregnancy with his grandchild.

You, dear prayer warrior, are a witness for Christ - even with this terrible “trespassing warning.”

You may want to get a blessing from your priest (or your bishop) for this mission of praying outside of PP.

You may also want to wear a St. Benedict medal while praying outside of PP - have it blessed with the full exorcist blessing. osb.org/gen/medal.html

I join my prayers with you right now for the mothers who will visit that PP, for the worker who reported you, for the other PP workers there, for the police officer who responded due to his job, may they all know the preciousness of Life. May you and your dear wife be at peace.

 

[1ke]

I was sitting, and, while I was in front of the door, I was not in the travel path. I don’t think I’m going to pursue legal action on it, since it was only a warning.

Thank you though ^^

Then you also need to be aware of the federal Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances (FACE) Act, signed into law by Clinton.

Yes, they will prosecute and this is a federal crime.

You have to tread carefully as a pro-lifer.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

First - tell your wife.

Going to, and dreading it >_>

Third - be prudent.

I’m taking this one to heart. I cannot afford to have a criminal record, so I will not be approaching their property (actual or supposed) again.

Praying for you in all of this…

It is greatly appreciated.

 

[Mikeydell]

For those who asked, I was by myself; and I did ask the officer if the property in front of a place like that is generally considered the property of the store, or a public through way, but she was unable to answer. I do not intend to go back, as I do not think I would retain my job if I were arrested.

Ask yourself this question…if you fell and got seriously hurt due to a faulty sidewalk or for some other reason where you prayed who would you have to sue for your medical expenses, the city/town of occurrence or the owner of the building you fell in front of - the clinic in this case? That should help you determine if it is private property or not.

Mike

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Ask yourself this question…if you fell and got seriously hurt due to a faulty sidewalk or for some other reason where you prayed who would you have to sue for your medical expenses, the city/town of occurrence or the owner of the building you fell in front of - the clinic in this case? That should help you determine if it is private property or not.

Mike

I would sue the building owner, but Planned Parenthood isn’t the building owner, which is where the obscurity comes in. They were renting their offices from the building owner, and as such had rights to their “clinic” My contention was/is that those rights do not extend to the public walk path in front of their offices, which could be used as a walk path by any person seeking to access the stairs or elevator; and generally are counted separate for the purposes of rent determination.

1ke, I was not aware of that, in which event it would appear that I am in the wrong, legally at least. Thank you for that information… though it pains me to see those places referred to as clinics in earnest…

Thank you everyone for your prayers and discussion, whether they supported me or presented the opposing side, they are much appreciated.

 

[bzkoss236]

I wasn’t exactly sure where to put this, so I decided to put it here.

I just received a trespassing warning for praying in front of a Planned Parenthood near where I work. The secretary, or whatever she was, came out and told me to move off of their property, as it was private property. This is not marked anywhere, nor was she able to provide documentation attesting to the fact when asked.

When the police officer got there, I told her that I had asked for documentation, or a person to verify the fact that it was, indeed, private property. I told her that all I required was verification, and I would gladly move. The officer went in and talked to the woman, the secretary came out and gave me an official warning, and I have been told that, should I return to their (unmarked, and undefined) private property, I shall be jailed and prosecuted.

… Is it just me, or is it ridiculous to ask me to take some secretary at her word about what is and isn’t their property? … Without any identifying markings (fence, signage, paint line…) nor the ability to provide supporting documentation, There is still no proof that I was on private property, and yet, here I sit with a warning… What’s more, I was unable to ascertain what, exactly, constituted their private property, and am left with absolutely no knowledge about what would and would not constitute further trespass… seriously, if it’s private property, it needs to be marked as such, or adequate documentation needs to be available on request which outlines that fact…

I don’t really want to tell my wife about it, because she’ll get angry at me…

Sorry, needed to vent… it is so frustrating…

The officer was probably biased, which is why he went off to talk to her instead of doing it in front of you.

 

[txstm]

Possibly, but I know that where my parents live, the sidewalk is considered public property. If someone “camps out” on the sidewalk in front of their house, there’s nothing they can do.

–Jen

That is almost certainly incorrect–In most cities, the homeowner owns the land all the way up to the centerline of the street, but the city places a permanent easement on the property to allow for the public to cross the property to get from point A to point B. That is essentially the only purpose the public is entitled to, and camping out is not permitted any more than camping out is allowed in a public park.

 

[ClearWater]

I’ve done my share of protesting, not for that but other things, and organized protests.

Learn the laws and then stick with them. If you need a permit, get that in advance.

If an officer asked me to leave, I would go.

Once, we were legally protesting, far as I know, but the police asked us to move. Some in the group said we were within our rights and wanted to stay. I asked the group to move, to comply with the officer’s request rather than cause a fight over this issue.

I would not stay there if a police officer asked me to leave.

Further, if anyone is protesting with you, have them also obey the laws. If they are out of line, tell them to obey the rules!

Unless you want to make your protest from inside jail, it’s best to comply!

 

[ProdglArchitect]

If an officer asked me to leave, I would go.

When the officer asked me to, I did. It was when the secretary lady asked e to that I didn’t.

 

[m134e5]

This battle has been going on for 40 years, and the pro-life cause is well-organized- it’s unnecessary and unwise to try and fight the battle alone. If your town has an abortion clinic, I’m sure there’s a group somewhere that goes and prays in front of it. If not, there’s certainly a local or state right to life organization you can work with to get at least two or three others to pray there with you.

 

[Aviatrix]

Question for you;

A person (whom you assume is the secretary) already told you it was “private property”, why then did you tell the police officer that you wanted a person to verify ?

… Is it just me, or is it ridiculous to ask me to take some secretary at her word about what is and isn’t their property? …

What is it about being an assumed secretary that makes her unbelievable?

I understand that you were embarrassed as you weren’t trying to do anything wrong, but these two things jumped right out at me.