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adgloriam
Guest
Esteemed @PetraG, if I may: Whoever dabbled in the Enneagram lost credibility AFAIC.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
It was just another one of the many personality indicators.
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Lee1
Guest
All I can say is that my priest, a very knowledgeable and humble man who I trust advised me not to read Richard Rohr. He was quite firm about it and i immediately stopped reading.
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PetraG
Guest
Yep. It’s another one of those you-are-one-of-X-number-of-kinds-of-people system. The systems tell me something about how people think about other people and their personalities, but the systems themselves are as credible as finding animal shapes in clouds.
I have a friend who knows him personally, I don’t doubt that his intention is to remain within orthodoxy, but, well…he’s not good at that. He thinks he is, but he’s really not.
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mrsdizzyd
Guest
If we imagine magisterial teaching as a fence around a garden…
Some people prefer to play in the middle of the garden well away from the fence line while others prefer to play right at the fence.
It sounds like your priest likes to play in the middle of the garden. There is nothing wrong with that, and it makes sense that he would advise others to stay away from the fence as well.
Folks like Rohr like to play at the fence line and sometimes they even stick a foot out of the garden gate. The point is that they are almost always working inside the confines of the garden.
(I think I’ve stretched that analogy about as far as I can stretch it!
)
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Lee1
Guest
It could be worse, sitting on the fence is the quickest way to get splinters in your …
Twang! (The sound of an overstretched analogy)
Thanks.
Twang! (The sound of an overstretched analogy)
Thanks.
C
commenter
Guest
You got it wrong. When there is a fence around the garden, you can run with abandon, you are free, like the trusted priest the poster talked to. You won’t go off the cliff.Lee1:
If we imagine magisterial teaching as a fence around a garden…
Some people prefer to play in the middle of the garden well away from the fence line while others prefer to play right at the fence.
It sounds like your priest likes to play in the middle of the garden. There is nothing wrong with that, and it makes sense that he would advise others to stay away from the fence as well.
Folks like Rohr like to play at the fence line and sometimes they even stick a foot out of the garden gate. The point is that they are almost always working inside the confines of the garden.
When the garden has no fence, as in Rohr’s universe, you’re stuck huddling in the muddle (I mean middle). If enneagram is popular you follow that fad. This week. When something else is Trending Now, you follow that other fad. As Rohr himself does.
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mrsdizzyd
Guest
I don’t “have it wrong”. I’m looking at the analogy from a different angle.
There is most certainly a fence around Rohr’s Garden. He’s at the margins.
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C
commenter
Guest
He’s not at the margins. He is usually at the center of contemporary trends.
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mrsdizzyd
Guest
sigh
At the margins of magesterial teaching (where one frequently finds overlap with certain “trends”).
The bottom line is that he is still in good standing with the Church. As we see time and again, mother church allows great latitude. If you don’t like Rohr you are certainly welcome to completely ignore him.
At the margins of magesterial teaching (where one frequently finds overlap with certain “trends”).
The bottom line is that he is still in good standing with the Church. As we see time and again, mother church allows great latitude. If you don’t like Rohr you are certainly welcome to completely ignore him.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
Obviously no one has read this book or cares to comment on my observation from it.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
I have looked beyond the fence anyway.
In fact sometimes it seems more dangerous in the garden but that is another thread.
In fact sometimes it seems more dangerous in the garden but that is another thread.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Well priests will have their opinions
A priest friend of mine, didn’t like Mother Angelica when she was on. Said she was often wrong on theology. My wife and myself, still watched her.
Not everyone is going to like Fr Rohr, I understand that.
Jim
A priest friend of mine, didn’t like Mother Angelica when she was on. Said she was often wrong on theology. My wife and myself, still watched her.
Not everyone is going to like Fr Rohr, I understand that.
Jim
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adgloriam
Guest
Personality pertains to psychology and psychiatry and thus is of the human and medical sciences. The Enneagram is not scientific - and the church has condemned its use. It is not an “indicator” and it is not “just” in both senses of the word.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
Why has the Church condemned its use?why such concern? In itself it is benign. Anything can be open to abuse.
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jesucated
Guest
For what it’s worth, I’m really enjoying Fr. Rohr’s Preparing for Christmas. it was recommended by our pastor, and it has really enriched my advent.
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RCIAGraduate
Guest
What’s the other one? I think I have a guess but I am not sure. Are both camps meant to be like wings like how an angel has two wings and ideally, there is unity in blending and learning from both?
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Roguish
Guest
Except that Jesus never taught a “death of self”. And neither did any other authentic religious figure, ever. Insofar as self-denial is part of authentic spirituality, it pertains to ridding oneself of one’s old tendencies, attachments, and circumstances, so that one may follow Christ’s inspiration the more whole-heartedly. This does not involve a “death of self”. On the contrary: it involves the discovery (or renewed cognition and appreciation) of one’s true self.
I’m sure you read and recommend Rohr with the best of intentions, but really, whoever falls for this insidious and unfortunately very popular death-of-self idea becomes the supremely effective saboteur of his own spiritual journey. Get away from it while you can, or end up friendly, sociable, accomodating, altruistic, easy-going, open-minded, flexible, etc. – yet unsaved.
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Roguish
Guest
Unfortunately the Church has lowered Her bar for remaining in good standing to something close to zero. As an example, Trudeau of Canada, who is at the same time a fierce pro-choicer and a practicing Catholic, recently received the Eucharist from an archbishop in a public setting in spite of Trudeau having implemented a host of pro-abortion policies that severely disadvantage and penalize Catholic businesses, schools, and churches.
Really, as a lay Catholic you can say the most outrageously uncatholic things these days, even if you’re high-profile, and the Church still won’t reprimand you. So to take the fact that someone (e.g. Rohr) hasn’t been reprimanded as an indicator that his or her views are within the bounds of Catholic teaching, is a “bit” unrealistic. Sadly, the Church appears to be so terribly afraid of conflict with secular forces and modern sensibilties that She’s decided to shed her teeth and accept just about anything from anyone, including her own members.
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adgloriam
Guest
I haven’t been able to find any reading on this. Any recommendation?mrsdizzyd:
Unfortunately the Church has lowered Her bar for remaining in good standing to something close to zero. As an example, Trudeau of Canada, who is at the same time a fierce pro-choicer and a practicing Catholic, recently received the Eucharist from an archbishop in a public setting in spite of Trudeau having implemented a host of pro-abortion policies that severely disadvantage and penalize Catholic businesses, schools, and churches.
Really, as a lay Catholic you can say the most outrageously uncatholic things these days, even if you’re high-profile, and the Church still won’t reprimand you. So to take the fact that someone (e.g. Rohr) hasn’t been reprimanded as an indicator that his or her views are within the bounds of Catholic teaching, is a “bit” unrealistic. Sadly, the Church appears to be so terribly afraid of conflict with secular forces and modern sensibilties that She’s decided to shed her teeth and accept just about anything from anyone, including her own members.
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