Just to annoy my coworkers

[awfulthings9]

All in good fun (because we have these types of conversations), I have wished several of my Protestant co-workers a happy Feast of the Immaculate Conception. This, of course, sparks a conversation about the IC, most have gone like this one with a Church of Christ member:

Me: Are you having a blessed Feast of the Immaculate Conception.

She: Oh yeah, it’s going great.

Me: Remember this is a day of obligation, so make sure to get to church.

She: You’re referring to Mary being immaculately conceived, then, right?

Me: She was born without original sin.

She: Mary wasn’t born without original sin.

Me: So you believe in original sin?

She: Well, no …

Me: So you don’t believe in original sin. So if it doesn’t exist, you would agree with me that Mary wasn’t born with it, right?

She: I’ll have to think about that.

Of course, my argument is completely silly, but the terminology presented a fun Catch-22 for these conversations.

 

[mommyof4]

Maybe I can try this on my Muslim coworker?

 

[Verita]

Hilarious.

 

[rtconstant]

Maybe I can try this on my Muslim coworker?

The irony here though is that there is a chance the Muslim will just agree with you.

 

[mommyof4]

The irony here though is that there is a chance the Muslim will just agree with you.

He is such a nice guy, I really couldn’t put him on the spot like that! And he is so smart, too. He could probably turn the tables on me so fast that I’d have to run over to my computer and start posting in the apologetics section on CA and start asking you guys for help!

 

[Mijoy2]

All in good fun (because we have these types of conversations), I have wished several of my Protestant co-workers a happy Feast of the Immaculate Conception. This, of course, sparks a conversation about the IC, most have gone like this one with a Church of Christ member:

Me: Are you having a blessed Feast of the Immaculate Conception.

She: Oh yeah, it’s going great.

Me: Remember this is a day of obligation, so make sure to get to church.

She: You’re referring to Mary being immaculately conceived, then, right?

Me: She was born without original sin.

She: Mary wasn’t born without original sin.

Me: So you believe in original sin?

She: Well, no …

Me: So you don’t believe in original sin. So if it doesn’t exist, you would agree with me that Mary wasn’t born with it, right?

She: I’ll have to think about that.

Of course, my argument is completely silly, but the terminology presented a fun Catch-22 for these conversations.

I’m confused, protestants do believe in original sin…correct?

 

[Verita]

I’m confused, protestants do believe in original sin…correct?

Some do, some don’t. Some I think don’t really understand it and just reject it because it’s so Catholic. It’s the same with almost any belief. You can always find at least one denomination that does and one that doesn’t.

 

[buffalo]

[ Mary and the Moslems

        by Bishop Fulton Sheen                                            ](http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/archive-2006-0817-mary_and_the_moslems.htm)

…The Koran, which is the bible of the Moslems, has many passages concerning the Blessed Virgin. First, the Koran believes in her Immaculate Conception and in her Virgin Birth. The third chapter of the Koran places the history of Mary’s family in a genealogy that goes back through Abraham, Noah, and Adam. When one compares the Koran’s description of the birth of Mary with the apocryphal Gospel of the birth of Mary, one is tempted to believe that Mohammed very much depended upon the latter.


more…

 

[Mijoy2]

[ Mary and the Moslems

by Bishop Fulton Sheen ](http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/archive-2006-0817-mary_and_the_moslems.htm)

…The Koran, which is the bible of the Moslems, has many passages concerning the Blessed Virgin. First, the Koran believes in her Immaculate Conception and in her Virgin Birth. The third chapter of the Koran places the history of Mary’s family in a genealogy that goes back through Abraham, Noah, and Adam. When one compares the Koran’s description of the birth of Mary with the apocryphal Gospel of the birth of Mary, one is tempted to believe that Mohammed very much depended upon the latter.


more…

Wow, this is a very interesting read by Bishop Fulton Sheen.
Thank you for posting it.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi AW9, are you an emotional vampire?

 

[Church_Militant]

All in good fun (because we have these types of conversations), I have wished several of my Protestant co-workers a happy Feast of the Immaculate Conception. This, of course, sparks a conversation about the IC, most have gone like this one with a Church of Christ member:

Me: Are you having a blessed Feast of the Immaculate Conception.

She: Oh yeah, it’s going great.

Me: Remember this is a day of obligation, so make sure to get to church.

She: You’re referring to Mary being immaculately conceived, then, right?

Me: She was born without original sin.

She: Mary wasn’t born without original sin.

Me: So you believe in original sin?

She: Well, no …

Me: So you don’t believe in original sin. So if it doesn’t exist, you would agree with me that Mary wasn’t born with it, right?

She: I’ll have to think about that.

Of course, my argument is completely silly, but the terminology presented a fun Catch-22 for these conversations.

In the words of that funny lil kid on the tricycle in The Incredibles movie…
“That was totally WICKED!”

 

[Church_Militant]

I’m confused, protestants do believe in original sin…correct?

They often don’t know what the heck they believe, and even then it’s not always very concrete. It’s tough being their own Pope and Magisterium…
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[awfulthings9]

Hi AW9, are you an emotional vampire?

?

Just a guy with a sense of irony.

 

[rr1213]

They often don’t know what the heck they believe, and even then it’s not always very concrete. It’s tough being their own Pope and Magisterium…

It appears that the Protestant with whom the OP had her conversation was not very knowledgeable about Protestant theology. So what? I imagine that I could have a similar discussion with the “average Joe Catholic” pulled in off the street and end up with a similar result.

 

[Damascus]

It appears that the Protestant with whom the OP had her conversation was not very knowledgeable about Protestant theology. So what? I imagine that I could have a similar discussion with the “average Joe Catholic” pulled in off the street and end up with a similar result.

Why not show your skills off on Mrs Abbots Whaddaya think thread in the non catholic forum. I told her someone would step up.

PS- OP I think Muslims are cool about the whole Mary thing.

 

[BlestOne]

That was hilarious! Unfortunately I can’t pull that at my work. We are all Catholic but 1 here. She asked me why I had to go to mass today. I told her it is the Feast of the Immaculate Conception and she just said Ohh.

On the funny side…she asked if she could leave at noon just because… So I said OK but when she went to leave she had TP from the back of her pants to the floor…I rolled laughing and told her I couldn’t let her go like that…she thought I meant about leaving early…then I told her to check the back of her jeans… She was so embarrassed but we both ended up laughing over it!!!

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

“Just to annoy my coworkers”

I got the impression that he is simply trying to be a pain in the neck. Did I misunderstand the thread?

Even those protestants who do not believe in original sin, do believe that “all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God”, thus even they would claim that Mary actually sinned in her life. Some will go as far as quoting the church father who said that mary sinned.

Chrysostom says Mary sinned

He Chrysostom ] was far from the idea of the sinless perfection and immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary. He attributes her conduct at the wedding of Cana (John ii. 3, 4) to undue haste, a sort of unholy ambition for the premature display of the miraculous power of her Son; and in commenting on Matthew xii. 46–49, he charges her and his brethren with vanity and a carnal mind.

ccel.org/ccel/schaff/…xiii.html

John 2:3-4
newadvent.org/fathers/240122.htm

Matthew 12:46-49

Homily 44 on the Gospel of Matthew

MATT. XII. 46–49. “While He yet talked to the people, behold, His mother and His brethren stood without, desiring to speak with Him. Then one said unto Him, Behold, Thy mother and Thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with Thee. But He answered and said unto him that told Him, Who is my mother, andmy brethren? And He stretched forth His hand towards His disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren.”

That which I was lately saying, that when virtue is wanting all things are vain, this is now also pointed out very abundantly. For I indeed was saying, that age and nature, and to dwell in the wilderness, and all such things, are alike unprofitable, where there is not a good mind; but to-day we learn in addition another thing, that even to have borne Christ in the womb, and to have brought forth that marvellous birth, hath no profit, if there be not virtue.

And this is hence especially manifest. “For while He yet talked to the people,” it is said, “one told Him, Thy mother and Thy brethren seek Thee. But He saith, who is my mother, and who are my brethren?” And this He said, not as being ashamed of His mother, nor denying her that bare Him; for if He had been ashamed of her, He would not have passed through that womb; but as declaring that she hath no advantage from this, unless she do all that is required to be done. For in fact that which she had essayed to do, was of superfluous vanity; in that she wanted to show the people that she hath power and authority over her Son, imagining not as yet anything great concerning Him; whence also her unseasonable approach. See at all events both her self-confidenceand theirs.Since when they ought to have gone in, and listened with the multitude; or if they were not so minded, to have waited for His bringing His discourse to an end, and then to have come near; they call Him out, and do this before all, evincing a superfluous vanity, and wishing to make it appear, that with much authority they enjoin Him. And this too the evangelist shows that he is blaming, for with this very allusion did he thus express himself, “While He yet talked to the people;” as if he should say, What? was there no other opportunity? Why, was it not possible to speak with Him in private?

newadvent.org/fathers/200144.htm

And what was it they wished to say? For if it were touching the doctrines of the truth, they ought to have propounded these things publicly, and stated them before all, that the rest also might have the benefit: but if about other matters that concerned themselves, they ought not to have been so urgent. For if He suffered not the burial of a father, lest the attendance on Him should be interrupted, much less ought they to have stopped His discourse to the people, for things that were of no importance. Whence it is clear, that nothing but vain glory led them to do this; which John too declares, by saying, "Neither did His brethren believe on Him;"and some sayings too of theirs he reports, full of great folly; telling us that they were for dragging Him to Jerusalem, for no other purpose, but that they themselves might reap glory from His miracles. “For if thou do these things,” it is said, "show Thyself to the world. For there is no man that doeth anything in secret, and seeketh himself to be manifest;"when also He Himself rebuked them, attributing it to their carnal mind. That is, because the Jews were reproaching Him, and saying, "Is not this the carpenter’s son, whose father and mother we know? and His brethren, are not they with us?"they, willing to throw off the disparagement caused by His birth, were calling Him to the display of His miracles.

newadvent.org/fathers/200144.htm

 

[rr1213]

Why not show your skills off on Mrs Abbots Whaddaya think thread in the non catholic forum. I told her someone would step up.

Nah, I’m sure that all the Catholics who post on these forums are learned apologists who know WAY more than the average Joe Catholic in the street.

 

[Damascus]

It appears that the Protestant with whom the OP had her conversation was not very knowledgeable about Protestant theology. So what? I imagine that I could have a similar discussion with the “average Joe Catholic” pulled in off the street and end up with a similar result.

But we dont know what flavor of Protestant she is. Its not one size fits all theology is it? I ask in all humility as I was never taught it was when I was a Protestant. My understaning was none of us agreed on anything except we all claimed it came from the Bible Luther gave us.

PS Mrs Abbott is looking for a Protestant theologian. So, go ahead.

 

[rr1213]

But we dont know what flavor of Protestant she is. Its not one size fits all theology is it? I ask in all humility as I was never taught it was when I was a Protestant. My understaning was none of us agreed on anything except we all claimed it came from the Bible Luther gave us.

PS Mrs Abbott is looking for a Protestant theologian. So, go ahead.

I am a theologian by no means, but I’ve taken a stab at Mrs Abbott’s question. As to “the Bible Luther gave us”…you understand, don’t you, that Luther’s bible was the same as the Catholic cannon? He put the apocrypha (DC books to you) in a separate section, but he did ***not ***remove them from the Bible. You can also look at the original King James Bible and find the apocrypha as well. They were removed much later in the process. Are there differences between various Protestant groups? Most certainly. Absolutely. Still, there are many similarities as well (as there are between Protestants and Catholics also). The biggest theological fault lines between Protestants may well be those who believe in predestination and those who believe in free will. There are other differences though also.