Just what is a "Clown Mass"......?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JRKH
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JRKH

Guest
I’ve heard this term tossed about here and never reallyunderstood what is meant other than it being a very bad thing.

Does this relatie a specific form of abuse or what???

🤷 :confused: 🤷
 
I’ve heard this term bandied about too and also have no idea what it refers to. In fact, I doubt that very many Catholics at all know what it refers to. I think it must be an urban myth of sorts . . . similar to alligators in the New York sewer system; a chimera for those who oppose the liturgical changes brought about by the Second Vatican Council.
 
Although this is an Anglican liturgy (thank goodness Our Lord wasn’t there), this is an example of a “clown Mass”


Here’s the “Catholic” version:


Obviously, this is the extreme of abuse, but the Pauline Mass tends towards this sort of downhill slide, admitting of more and more innovation all the time.
 
You can google a clown Mass.
Basically this is when a priest outwardly makes a mockery of the Liturgy. Inviting strange dancers perhaps to attend Mass and dance around at what should be a solemn time…basically when they turn the Liturgy into a 3 ring circus. There have been a variety of examples, so it’s hard to be exacting. Just sufficient to say - things just are not right.

Youtube has some of these Masses on tape.

Here are Masses literally done with clowns. 😦

youtube.com/watch?v=NsC4wRPybpA

youtube.com/watch?v=SZ6KWt49wIA&feature=related
 
Dauphin said:
Although this is an Anglican liturgy (thank goodness Our Lord wasn’t there), this is an example of a “clown Mass”


Here’s the “Catholic” version:


Obviously, this is the extreme of abuse, but the Pauline Mass tends towards this sort of downhill slide, admitting of more and more innovation all the time.
Click to expand...
GMTA
 
I find these things horrible to watch.
I think these priests need prayers desperately.
I think they might be off a bit.:rolleyes: [well a lot]
 
Thanks for the quick replies.
Those examples are indeed sad to behold. However I do note that that, for all of the links provided, there was only two real examples. One catholic and one anglican.

I don’t know if I could sit though something like that either.

tsuwano - I think you too are right in that the term may well be “bandied about” without a clear understanding of it’s meaning.
It seems Prayer Warrior definition is a good one. Any mass that makes a mockery of the Liturgy.
I will not condemn anyone but I wonder why a Bishop, or his Archbishop or his Cardinal wouldn’t take swift and decisive action to put a halt to such abuses.

Does anyone know when the term “Clown Mass” came into usage?
Peace
James
 
Of course, one cannot but cringe at the “Barney” Mass that seems to have become staple to show everything that is wrong with Mass today…
 
I don’t think a few ‘clowns’ make everything wrong in the Mass today.

I like the Latin Mass. I hope to have this choice returned to us. I like how things were done. The priest facing the altar, the bells during the consecration, the Communion rail, and many other things that seem lost. But I think the vernicular has also helped with the closer relations we have to reunification with the East.

Speaking to a gentleman from the EO, we both agreed that the Liturgy [Mass] is actually a lot closer than we thought. I am sure many Catholics think they are a form of Protestantism. And they probably have some of their own ideas. [which I won’t go there]
But in the vernicular - being able to read how very much the same we are [as opposed to languages we could not otherwise understand of one another] is resulting in Bishops and priests realising we truly are One.

Clown Masses however - make me cringe. I don’t think it is the whole Mass but an exceptional few who make things seem pretty grossly erroneous. The abuses are an embarassment. I mean how many ppl need a form of entertainment of this magnitude to stay in the pews? Truly is sad when priests feel they are not doing enough entertaining at the Masses to resort to sacriligious practices.

I just pray for these priests - thinking - they know not what they do.
 
JRKH said:
Does anyone know when the term “Clown Mass” came into usage?
Click to expand...
I’m not 100% sure about this, but it seems to have been around since the very early 70’s. First time I remember hearing the term was in reference to an actual service with people dressed up like circus clowns. Similar, in a way, to the video link posted, but they wore full grease paint, rubber noses, fright wigs, etc, with baloons and other props. It was something like “Bozo goes to church.” I seem to think it was some sort of children’s service, but I don’t recall the details.
 
JRKH said:
Does anyone know when the term “Clown Mass” came into usage?
Peace
James
Click to expand...
Probably when they started in the 90’s or whenever they began.
I have even seen ‘pharoah’ type of dancing at the altar on some youtubes. Women dressed in that sort of style and dancing around.

I fear for these sort of things…and pray.
 
“Clown Masses” are but the tip of the iceburg and it started much earlier than the 90s.

In 1986, I was a member of our cathedral choir. We were asked to sing for the diocese’s 25th anniversary Mass. Out came liturgical dancers in diaphonous gowns wafting bowls filled with charcoal and incense. It was all I could do to keep my mouth off the floor and keep singing.

I wish I could say that was my only experience. Unfortunately, it was not. I sang for two other diocesan Masses with liturgical dancers in diaphonous gowns and then came the “pole dancers” - the folks with 10’ tall poles with 8’ long ribbons weaving and writhing up the main aisle of the cathedral.

After the last experience, I have refused to sing for any more diocesan events.

Sadly, such things exist. I was there.
 
brotherhrolf said:
“Clown Masses” are but the tip of the iceburg and it started much earlier than the 90s.

In 1986, I was a member of our cathedral choir. We were asked to sing for the diocese’s 25th anniversary Mass. Out came liturgical dancers in diaphonous gowns wafting bowls filled with charcoal and incense. It was all I could do to keep my mouth off the floor and keep singing.

I wish I could say that was my only experience. Unfortunately, it was not. I sang for two other diocesan Masses with liturgical dancers in diaphonous gowns and then came the “pole dancers” - the folks with 10’ tall poles with 8’ long ribbons weaving and writhing up the main aisle of the cathedral.

After the last experience, I have refused to sing for any more diocesan events.

Sadly, such things exist. I was there.
Click to expand...
Thanks Brotherwolf,
I’m sure that the whole when did it start question will become a chicken/egg debate - only harder. (you see I’ve answered that one:p )

I think you may have hit the mark here for me though.
My guess, and it is only a guess, is that some of the more Colorful" and outlandish improvisations, like the ones you describe, from the early post VII days got coined “clown masses” by someone or other. Then at some point those who apporve of such things got insulted because the term caught on and decided, we’ll show them, and so they did an actual “Clown Mass”. Thus we have the videos to link to.

In any event, It’s nice to know that this isn’t just an “urban myth”, or generalized derogatory term, but that there are actually documented instances of this form of abuse - and abuse it is.

May God help these people to see their error.
(I wonder how many of those people voted pro-life)

Peace
James
 
It’s not an urban myth. I have never seen a “clown Mass”. The saddest thing is that such a thing could have been envisoned. Unfortunately, I could envision such a thing in my diocese.
 
Dauphin said:
Although this is an Anglican liturgy (thank goodness Our Lord wasn’t there), this is an example of a “clown Mass”


Here’s the “Catholic” version:


**Obviously, this is the extreme of abuse, but the Pauline Mass tends towards this sort of downhill slide, admitting of more and more innovation all the time./**SIZE]

boldface mine–this is QUITE a statement, Dauphin, and just your opinion, of course.

In my opinion, your statement is the same as when Protestants say that lighting candles during the worship service will lead their church down the Road to Rome and Catholicism. People actually believe this.
Click to expand...
 
Cat said:
boldface mine–this is QUITE a statement, Dauphin, and just your opinion, of course.

In my opinion, your statement is the same as when Protestants say that lighting candles during the worship service will lead their church down the Road to Rome and Catholicism. People actually believe this.
Click to expand...
That the Pauline Mass has unprecedented room for innovation is beyond dispute.

Take, for example, this liturgy celebrated by a “conservative” Cardinal:


The Cardinal’s spokesman said it was fully in accord with the liturgical norms, and it’s true. The Pauline Mass is totally open to this sort of insanity.
 
brotherhrolf said:
“Clown Masses” are but the tip of the iceburg and it started much earlier than the 90s.

In 1986, I was a member of our cathedral choir. We were asked to sing for the diocese’s 25th anniversary Mass. Out came liturgical dancers in diaphonous gowns wafting bowls filled with charcoal and incense. It was all I could do to keep my mouth off the floor and keep singing.

I wish I could say that was my only experience. Unfortunately, it was not. I sang for two other diocesan Masses with liturgical dancers in diaphonous gowns and then came the “pole dancers” - the folks with 10’ tall poles with 8’ long ribbons weaving and writhing up the main aisle of the cathedral.

After the last experience, I have refused to sing for any more diocesan events.

Sadly, such things exist. I was there.
Click to expand...
Do you mean like this

goneworleans.about.com/od/festivals/a/mardigrasmass.htm

I only found the link because I was searching for an article, explaining that the infamous clown Mass in California did not come about to deliberately mock the Church. I could not find the article.

But best I can remember, it was a “circus town” and all stores, shops, etc. were to have a circus theme to celebrate the anniversary of the founding of the town.

Not a good idea, at all, for the Church to participate. But, not proof that it was done with malicious intent either.
 
So, Cat? Anything goes? Anything is just…OK? This “I’m OK; you’re OK” paradigm pervades CAF. The Mass under which I grew up is eschewed for “whatever floats your boat”? Ostensibly, there exists no right or wrong.

I’ll take my candles, and my incense, and my consecration bells for that is part and parcel of being Catholic as I grew up. Clown Masses, women dressed in diaphonous gowns wafting bowls of incense dancing down the main aisle of a cathedral…well, you might want to compare it to fundamentalist beliefs about burning candles but it is a quantum difference for me and for many like me.

Are our beliefs invalid? Am I just supposed to pack the beliefs under which I grew up before Vatican II into a little bag and put them away because “I’m OK; you’re OK” is the mantra of the day?

Sorry. I don’t think so. I haven’t driven 25 miles for the last 27 years to avoid the abuses which are abundant at my local geographic church. I appreciate that you are a convert and that such things have little import to you. Such things have a large import to me and those of my generation who grew up before Vatican II. Vatican II happened when I was in Catholic high school. I’m not dead yet.

Those of us who grew up with the TLM and who saw the changes in the late 60s might have a far different opinion than you. We’ve been told to keep our mouths shut for well over forty years. “Pray, pay, and obey” went the mantra back then. If we were such a small minority, why would the Holy Father issued the Motu Proprio?

We are only just beginning to find “our” voice. I’m sorry if it disturbs you. “I’m OK; you’re OK” may be fine in your understanding. It’s not in mine.

I’ve seen with my own two eyes the liturgical dancers in diaphonous gowns wafting bowls of charcoal and incense. I’ve seen with my own two eyes the liturgical dancers with poles and streamers carrying on like they were in a “second line” jazz funeral. I thank God that I have never seen a puppet or clown Mass. Wrong is simply just that…wrong.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top