Just what is an indult?

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Eilish_Maura

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Depending one who is telling you an indult is the Church correcting a mistake in something it had legislated or a loophole to break Church law.

These ‘explanations’ seem based on the bias of the person explaining.

The dictionary definition does not help at all when faced with this loophole vs fix-up conflict.

What is a good, sound way to explain and understand the nature and role of an indult?

Thanks.
 
Pontifical Indult

How is this an apologetics question? 🤷
Ok - what do you say when someone says indults are just the Church’s way to cover it’s bottom when it has made a major screw up?

OR - what do you say when confronted the argument that an indult is simply a way to turn a blind eye to blatent breaking of Church laws or that Church laws are meaningless?

That link does NOTHING to help deal with either of these attitudes.
 
Yes it does. It shows that those attitudes are misplaced and that indults are not for that.
Well I used that information BEFORE coming here.

Coming here is an act of last resort since, theoretically, I am finding most of this problem interacting with Catholics familiar with the Church and the Faith.
 
If people don’t want to understand, as GK Chesterton said, all you can really say is “You don’t understand.” 🤷
 
An indult is simply the granting of a privilege, nothing more.
Ok - what do you say when someone says indults are just the Church’s way to cover it’s bottom when it has made a major screw up?
On what are they basing such a statement? What example of a “screw up” do they give and how does an indult “cover” the Church in this particular case?

Perhaps if you give specifics we can better understand their flawed reasoning in the situation.
OR - what do you say when confronted the argument that an indult is simply a way to turn a blind eye to blatent breaking of Church laws or that Church laws are meaningless?
This shows a lack of understanding regarding Canon Law and the Authority of Bishops.

Again, an example of this would be helpful.
That link does NOTHING to help deal with either of these attitudes.
What Genesis315 said.
 
There can’t be exceptions without a rule. The fact that we even have indults presupposes that there is a binding canon law for which concessions can be made.

If the law was meaningless, there would be no need for indults.

It is entirely within the Church’s authority to grant indults for particular localities and situations. Canon Law, for the most part, is not doctrinal. They are laws that are in place to assist the bishops, priests, and laity. So, making concessions to that law does not call into question any doctrine.

If someone suggests indults are a way for the Church to cover its bases or turn a blind eye to “rule-breaking”, they have an incorrect understanding of indults.
 
The dictionary does not define or describe the color “blue” based on whether people like it or not, but on some other basis.

Similarly, terms in law are not to be defined or understood on the basis of attitudes that some people might hold about how they are used, but on the basis of how the law itself uses them.

The term indult has no particularly fixed meaning or nature, but generally and broadly speaking, it is simply an act of a competent Church authority that allows a juridic person (for example, an episcopal conference) or a physical person (i.e. an individual) to do something that would not otherwise be permitted or possible. But it necessarily involves the exercise of power in the Church by someone with the authority to give the indult.

Indults modify how a law is to be applied in a concrete particular case by permitting an exception, but they do not break the law itself. They are not loopholes but a recognition that the law, which is abstract and universal in nature, might not properly fit a concrete and particular situation or serve the good of the salvation of souls in that situation.

This is somewhat associated with the legal principle called “equity” which recognizes that a rigorous, universal and unchanging application of the law does not always serve the purposes of justice in an individual circumstance and, might, in fact, inflict an unjust injury.

An indult could be in the way of a dispensation or a privilege or the granting of a faculty. The language of any given indult would need to examined to see which of these or something else would apply.

In the code, the term indult usually refers to the permissions given for individuals in some form of consecrated life to live apart from their institutes for a period of time, or to depart from the institute permanently.

Now, certain persons 1) might not like others doing what an indult has permitted, or 2) do not like the reasons for the indult, or 3) do not like the intentional or even unintended effects of an indult, or 4) believe that the Church authority which gave the indult lacked the competence to give it.

In essence, they may have come to judge that a particular indult should not have been given.

But there is a difference between legal notions and such personal judgements about how the law is used.
 
An indult is permission to do something.

Lets say there is a law and a Bishop requests permission to change it temporarily to help people come closer to Christ. The Church will grant the indult to allow for the exception.

(In a business sense it could be as follows,
In the case of a person who needs to skip a payment on a loan, because it would be a hardship to make that payment. In order to help the person they allow for a skipping of the payment, a temporary permission to do something different. Then after the person is back on their feet they continue with the regular payments.(unfortunately some will want to continue to skip payments))

Now an indult can prove to be beneficial in some cases and might be changed to a law. This is sometimes the intent of those requesting the indult, to test a certain point to see if it is good.

God Bless
Scylla
 
Can the Church be ‘forced’ to grant an indult like if some bishops opt to allow something not ‘in the rules’ and the Pope does not want to deal with correcting them/the situation?
 
Indults modify how a law is to be applied in a concrete particular case by permitting an exception, but they do not break the law itself. They are not loopholes but a recognition that the law, which is abstract and universal in nature, might not properly fit a concrete and particular situation or serve the good of the salvation of souls in that situation.
👍 Great answer!
Can the Church be ‘forced’ to grant an indult like if some bishops opt to allow something not ‘in the rules’ and the Pope does not want to deal with correcting them/the situation?
The Church or the Pope is never “forced” to do anything (except perhaps by the Holy Spirit ;)). I’m curious if you are referencing an actual situation or are speaking hypothetically.

I think I see what you’re getting at. You’re thinking of an instance where a rule is being broken, and then an indult is granted so that the rule-breakers aren’t technically breaking the rule anymore. Thus everything is copasetic. (Perhaps you are thinking of the SSPX and the indult for the Tridentine Mass?)

I think that is a somewhat skewed and overly simplistic way to look at it. I suppose, on the surface, it could seem that way, but it is certainly difficult for us to pass that sort of judgment. The Pope will try to act in such a way that is of the most spiritual benefit for the people involved. It’s not a matter changing the rules so that no one is breaking them. He’s trying to make concessions in matters of less importance to bring about unity and increase the chance that those involved will be saved. No one has forced his hand. The choice is up to him (or the competent ecclesial authority).
 
Can the Church be ‘forced’ to grant an indult
“The Church” doesn’t grant indults. The Pope, a Bishop, or another person to whom that authority has been given (as specified in canon law) grants indults.
like if some bishops opt to allow something not ‘in the rules’
A Bishop can legitimately grant indults within his authority. So, if a Bishop grants an indult within his authority there is no issue.

A Bishop cannot grant an indult for something for which he has no authority.
and the Pope does not want to deal with correcting them/the situation?
There’s nothing to correct. A bishop legitimately grants indults under his own authority.

If a Bishop attempted to do something that he does not have authority to do or violated Canon Law, the Pope would certainly “deal with” the situation.

So, I’m really not following you here.
 
Can the Church be ‘forced’ to grant an indult like if some bishops opt to allow something not ‘in the rules’ and the Pope does not want to deal with correcting them/the situation?
By virtue of his office the Supreme Pontiff possesses supreme, full, immediate and universal ordinary power in the Church, which he can always freely exercise (c. 331).
 
By virtue of his office the Supreme Pontiff possesses supreme, full, immediate and universal ordinary power in the Church, which he can always freely exercise (c. 331).
I am not sure how you are using this in response to my post (which was about forcing the Pope’s hand or his dodging making corrections)
 
I am not sure how you are using this in response to my post (which was about forcing the Pope’s hand or his dodging making corrections)
Your question doesn’t make sense in the context of Canon Law and the authority of the Pope and Bishops.
 
Your question doesn’t make sense in the context of Canon Law and the authority of the Pope and Bishops.
There are those, some on CAF, who when speaking of this or that indult insist the Pope involved only issued it grudgingly or as the ‘lesser evil’ when one canon or another is repeatedly broken.

I have always said that such a position has made no sense at all and I have tried using links like the one earlier in this thread to no avail.
 
You cannot force the Pope to do anything, as he is the Supreme Pontiff.

Pope Benedict right now can make some sweeping decisions and radically affect the Church, and really all we can do is complain.

That doesn’t mean that the Pope wont listen to anybody. He will make decisions based on what he thinks is good for the Church, and for the good of souls. He can’t be forced but can be pressured and sometimes this pressure can be great. Really the only way he can know things about the Church is through others, Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, etc…

An example…
(in this example this isn’t the best Cardinal)
Lets say Cardinal so and so asks for permission to do something, he is not going to say "I want to do this because I enjoy this and it will make me more popular in my area and greatly increase my endowments)
He would say something like this
"the people in my area are suffering as their culture endorses this lifestyle which makes it hard for them to come to Christ, I believe it would be prudent for the time being to allow this practice for the greater good of their souls)

People do use language in many ways to influence and promote different agendas, this might not be obvious to all Catholics as many of us are very trusting of people. Even the Pope has to trust many people to know what is going on.

Unfortunately sometimes he is influenced by many people to sometimes horrible results, on the other hand sometimes good results. This doesn’t affect the Infallibility of the Pope, just sometimes the prudence of his decisions on practices.

God Bless
Scylla
 
There are those, some on CAF, who when speaking of this or that indult insist the Pope involved only issued it grudgingly or as the ‘lesser evil’ when one canon or another is repeatedly broken.
“Their opinion” and “the truth” are not necessarily the same thing.
I have always said that such a position has made no sense at all and I have tried using links like the one earlier in this thread to no avail.
Some people refuse the truth-- it’s not your problem.
 
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