Just *why* is marijuana use wrong?

[prstoessel]

Is this entire thread just a bunch of people who have never smoked weed, or been around maryjuana culture? In some countries it is perfectly legal. While in amsterdam I found that responsible maryjuana use was the norm. Almost everyone smokes, but not everyday.

You can also dilute your maryjuana down (as I do and a large portion of the smokers in the world do) with a % tobacco, this leaves you with basically no effects atall. It is done for the taste, the social aspect, because people enjoy it etc… A spliff to a joint is like a beer to a cup of striaght vodka.

Also if anyone here has a problem with “maryjuana” which what you all really mean is thc and it’s effects, you should certainly have a problem with caffeine. A strong shot of expresso to a non caffeine drinker produces effects much like the use of maryjuana to a non smoker. Infact when I took a double shot of some notoriously strong expresso a few years back I responsibly had to ask my buddy to drive because home I was definetly high, and my heart was pounding. I didn’t much like the effects of lots of caffeine on my body hence why I drink light coffee. I also wasn’t to fond of getting very high when I smoke, so I dilute my mixture just like someone does with their tea of coffee of choice.

Arguments against an individuals right to smoke maryjuana are completely bunk, they are bankrupt.

The level of ignorance in this thread is absolutely astonishing.

The original question of “Just ‘why’ is marijuana use wrong?” can be answered this way:

Use of a controlled substance not prescribed and supervised by an authorized party (i.e. doctor) violates civil law. Culpability of sin for violating that law is a matter for the confessional, of course. But in general, violations of civil law are considered sinful acts.

If the free use of controlled substances (such as marijuana) were legal, it would still be sinful to use them to the extent of inhibiting your faculties. It perverts the God-given body, which should be treated with great respect. This would also apply to alcohol, prescription medications, or any other such substance.

What is the underlying purpose for using a controlled substance outside of the context of anything medical? To get “high” or “stoned” or any other euphemism you would like to use, correct? Granted, there are varied levels of being “high” and I might be willing to even say that it is not sinful (at certain levels). But the problem is that it puts the individual often in the “occasion to sin”. Intentionally putting yourself in that circumstance is sinful itself.

I appreciate your generous assessment of my past regarding the use of marijuana. Unfortunately, it is not accurate. My discernment over this issue takes my past experiences and observations in to account.

As to my intelligence, I’ll agree with you. I am certainly not the “answer man”. I can only provide my knowledge of the truth based upon my own perspective and the teachings of the Church. I, too, seek answers. This forum is a good means for seeing the argument from both sides. Just because someone does not share your point of view is no reason to label them or give insults.

Peace.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

I’m not an expert on this but what you’re doing here is what’s known in corrections as robin hooding… basically you’re saying that since (while it’s considered wrong) you’re not (that you’re aware of) hurting anyone or doing anything else morally wrong… it’s ok when in reality you can’t deny the fact that it’s not. You can only attempt to justify it which makes it worse. As far as the idea that marijuana makes you stupid, yes it’s a generalization but you can’t deny the fact that it slows thinking, maybe in varying degrees depending on the user but it’s still a fact that it has that effect and as an intelligent person talking to someone while their sober then trying to talk to them while they’re high, trust me… you notice a difference.

Please don’t misunderstand, it’s not my intent to judge anyone here even if it comes across that way. I’m judging the act and whether or not it’s wrong from a moral perspective which is what the question of the thread is. I’m a sinner… I’m ashamed when I think of the list of sins I could poor out right here… but I don’t try to justify them. I just pray for God’s mercy and understanding.

Studies have shown that marijuana use can effect short-term memory WHILE one is feeling the effects of it. Once one is no longer “high”, short-term memory goes back to normal. Alcohol use also has mental and physical side effects during use and yet is not considered to be a sin.

Marijuana also does not kill any brain cells (unlike alcohol).

Marijuana also does not cause one to be intoxicated (unlike alcohol) because marijuana is NOT actually a toxic substance to the human body or brain, which is why overdose is impossible.

Marijuana does not cause people to become aggressive (unlike alcohol).

I will repeat that the ONLY possible sinfulness in marijuana use is failure to use it in moderation (not a problem for most people) and the Pauline idea that all civil authority MUST be obeyed (leading to a VENIAL sin at the very most).

Anyone who says that alcohol use is fine in moderation but marijuana use is not is a hypocrite.

 

[mdrummer5]

Studies have shown that marijuana use can effect short-term memory WHILE one is feeling the effects of it. Once one is no longer “high”, short-term memory goes back to normal. Alcohol use also has mental and physical side effects during use and yet is not considered to be a sin.

Marijuana also does not kill any brain cells (unlike alcohol).

Marijuana also does not cause one to be intoxicated (unlike alcohol) because marijuana is NOT actually a toxic substance to the human body or brain, which is why overdose is impossible.

Marijuana does not cause people to become aggressive (unlike alcohol).

I will repeat that the ONLY possible sinfulness in marijuana use is failure to use it in moderation (not a problem for most people) and the Pauline idea that all civil authority MUST be obeyed (leading to a VENIAL sin at the very most).

Anyone who says that alcohol use is fine in moderation but marijuana use is not is a hypocrite.

Let’s not confuse whether or not it’s a sin and whether or not it should be legal/illegal. Because it sounds like you’re arguing the later… very well I might add. But…

You can’t deny that it’s wrong, you’re simply trying to justify why you continue to do it knowing that it is. Even if the ONLY thing making it a sin is the fact that it’s illegal… it’s still a sin. Is it as severe as walking into a shopping mall and going on a killing spree? Of course not. But it’s still a sin. In terms of the usage… I agree that yes it can be used in moderation. However, it’s still illegal, making it a sin. I think what makes it worse is that you can’t deny the fact that it’s a sin yet you continue to do it but I’m admittedly nowhere near to being an expert on this.

Bottom line, it’s a sin and no amount of justification can change that. The points you make here are very valid in terms of why legalization is a viable option but it does nothing to change the fact that it’s sinful even if it’s only because it’s illegal.

 

[Thinkclearly]

Really? Interesting point given your username… if you don’t feel anything… why do you do it? Did you even think before you typed that?

If it didn’t have some effect and if you didn’t feel anything it’d be pointless.

Absolutely not, this is an utterly retarded thing to say, people do things all the time that don’t get them high, does playing soccer get you high, does watching tv get you high, does drinking light coffe verses expresso get you high? NO, then why do it, BECAUSE YOU ENJOY IT. Perhaps you should read what I wrote and think clearly before YOU write, or else you will come off slow again. I will quote myself from a few posts back

“You can also dilute your maryjuana down (as I do and a large portion of the smokers in the world do) with a % tobacco, this leaves you with basically no effects atall. It is done for the taste, the social aspect, because people enjoy it etc… A spliff to a joint is like a beer to a cup of striaght vodka.”

I urge you to think more clearly!!!

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Let’s not confuse whether or not it’s a sin and whether or not it should be legal/illegal. Because it sounds like you’re arguing the later… very well I might add. But…

You can’t deny that it’s wrong, you’re simply trying to justify why you continue to do it knowing that it is. Even if the ONLY thing making it a sin is the fact that it’s illegal… it’s still a sin. Is it as severe as walking into a shopping mall and going on a killing spree? Of course not. But it’s still a sin. In terms of the usage… I agree that yes it can be used in moderation. However, it’s still illegal, making it a sin. I think what makes it worse is that you can’t deny the fact that it’s a sin yet you continue to do it but I’m admittedly nowhere near to being an expert on this.

Bottom line, it’s a sin and no amount of justification can change that. The points you make here are very valid in terms of why legalization is a viable option but it does nothing to change the fact that it’s sinful even if it’s only because it’s illegal.

Well, IMO, if one vaporizes it to avoid the health problems associated with smoking and gets it from a source where one knows for a fact it did not come from a cartel or any kind of violence, etc., then I think it could be considered a venial sin at most, about on par with going a few miles over the speed limit or over-indulging in chocolate cake. People commit venial sins every day knowingly and with no real intention of stopping, right? Doesn’t everyone have a pet venial sin that they do occasionally without getting all worked up about it?

 

[Thinkclearly]

Ultimately, while it’s still illegal (unless you live in Amsterdam) it’s a sin. It doesn’t matter how you try to justify it, it’s a sin. Now… do I think it should be legal… for the most part, yes… but until that happens… it’s a sin.

LOL!!!
Wait is it a sin because it’s ilegal, or is it a sin because you were able to pull that out of some scripture. If the former, then is it a sin to smoke it in countries where it isn’t illegal? And the later, can you please refer me to where you got that from the bible, and how from whatever scripture you distorded such words do you not have a problem with caffeine???

 

[prstoessel]

Doesn’t everyone have a pet venial sin that they do occasionally without getting all worked up about it?

Certainly, we all have vices to deal with on a regular basis. But it is a grave matter to willingly engage those vices and accept them as a venial sin and somehow think it’s still okay with God.

Sin, mortal or venial, is turning away from God. Venial sin is something that is incidental, generally speaking. The willingness to repeatedly commit a venial sin can become a mortal sin circumstance. Thus, we must always be willing and trying to avoid sin - any kind of sin - at all costs.

 

[mdrummer5]

Well, IMO, if one vaporizes it to avoid the health problems associated with smoking and gets it from a source where one knows for a fact it did not come from a cartel or any kind of violence, etc., then I think it could be considered a venial sin at most, about on par with going a few miles over the speed limit or over-indulging in chocolate cake. People commit venial sins every day knowingly and with no real intention of stopping, right? Doesn’t everyone have a pet venial sin that they do occasionally without getting all worked up about it?

“IMO” is a key phrase. I don’t entirely disagree but it’s not really for us to say is it?

The question of the thread is why is it wrong? Along with that we can imply “is it wrong?”

Both have been addressed.

Now… as to what degree of wrong it is… that is very open to debate. I will not get involved in such a conversation simply because I’m very naive to a lot of things in the bible that I’ve seen people use to explain why it may be more severe than you or I might think.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I’m one of those people, I enjoy one or 2 spliffs when I have people over to my home for drinks. I don’t like being drunk or “high” so I like to just sip a beer and smoke a spliff, I don’t feel a thing and continue to have great conversation with enlightened intellectual individuals all night.

When you say spliff are you talking about a joint (rolled in paper) or a blunt (rolled in a cigar wrapper)?

 

[Thoughtfulone]

“IMO” is a key phrase. I don’t entirely disagree but it’s not really for us to say is it?

The question of the thread is why is it wrong? Along with that we can imply “is it wrong?”

Both have been addressed.

Now… as to what degree of wrong it is… that is very open to debate. I will not get involved in such a conversation simply because I’m very naive to a lot of things in the bible that I’ve seen people use to explain why it may be more severe than you or I might think.

Also, we are not ALWAYS bound to follow all laws as is noted here re: gambling:

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/08/poker_legamoron.html

One could argue that occasional, moderate use of marijuana would fall under this category of laws that do not have to be rigidly followed in all circumstances.

It could also be argued that it is a strictly PENAL law and that as long as one is willing to pay the fine associated (in most U.S. states, a small amount of marijuana is only punishable by a fine) then one is not sinning by breaking the law

Laws purely penal (leges mere poenales) are those which do not make an action absolutely obligatory, but simply impose penalty in case one is convicted of transgression. Thus they leave it, in a certain sense, to the choice of the subject whether he will abstain from the penal action, or whether, if the violation is proved against him, he will submit to the penalty. The objection cannot be raised that purely penal laws are not actual laws because they create no bounden duty, for they oblige the violator of the law to bear the punishment if the authorities apprehend and convict him. Whether a law is a purely penal law or not is not so easy to decide in an individual case. The decision depends on the will of the lawgiver and also upon the general opinion and custom of a community.

This being said, I do know a priest who believes it to be a serious sin to smoke marijuana, but the reasons he gave showed that he is very uninformed about it and I wasn’t about to argue with him

 

[mdrummer5]

One could argue that occasional, moderate use of marijuana would fall under this category of laws that do not have to be rigidly followed in all circumstances.

Yes one could. But very much like my job… it’s quite subjective. So it boils down to this:

I’m an underwriter, if I approve a loan I have to be prepared to justify my decision if it comes back to bite me in the butt. Having my boss question me (which happened just yesterday ironically) on a decision is never comfortable even if I’m confident in it and he agrees with me.

Now… try to imagine that same scenario with God instead.

 

[Thinkclearly]

When you say spliff are you talking about a joint (rolled in paper) or a blunt (rolled in a cigar wrapper)?

A spliff is joint diluted with tobacco to suite your taste, making the effect vary from less, to nothing. The vast majority of people who smoke weed in the world do this. The only places that smoke pure prodomonantly are America, western Canada, Amsterdam (split), and Newzealand. Smokers in eastern Canada, Australia, Europe etc… smoke spliffs almost exclusively.

 

[Thinkclearly]

Yes one could. But very much like my job… it’s quite subjective. So it boils down to this:

I’m an underwriter, if I approve a loan I have to be prepared to justify my decision if it comes back to bite me in the butt. Having my boss question me (which happened just yesterday ironically) on a decision is never comfortable even if I’m confident in it and he agrees with me.

Now… try to imagine that same scenario with God instead.

Ok i’ll play, imagining…

I see the conversation going quite well actually, given this god character is a reasonable rational entity. If it isn’t such an entity, then I would gladly strut my way to wherever it is he’d be sending me because I would have nothing to do with such an entity. Your comment could be applied to anything, how bout eating kosher meat, or muslims that don’t eat pig. You are breaking those laws, and if they are right about their god of choice then imagine your conversation with allah about your pig eating. Ofcourse as a fully indoctrinated Catholic, you are most likely not able to see the proper comparison, brushing it off by saying something equally as bankrupt as “but that is a false religion.”

Also how about the many other laws in your own bible you don’t follow:

Do you not touch a woman when she is on her period???
Do you clean yourself after being in the same room as a women on her period?
Do you wear clothes made of 2 garments???
etc…etc…etc…

Imagine your conversation with your god if he was serious about these garbage laws that riddle your holybook of choice.

Your comment is basically Pascals wager with a little twist, and equally as bunk logically.

 

[prstoessel]

Ok i’ll play, imagining…

I see the conversation going quite well actually, given this god character is a reasonable rational entity. If it isn’t such an entity, then I would gladly strut my way to wherever it is he’d be sending me because I would have nothing to do with such an entity. Your comment could be applied to anything, how bout eating kosher meat, or muslims that don’t eat pig. You are breaking those laws, and if they are right about their god of choice then imagine your conversation with allah about your pig eating. Ofcourse as a fully indoctrinated Catholic, you are most likely not able to see the proper comparison, brushing it off by saying something equally as bankrupt as “but that is a false religion.”

Also how about the many other laws in your own bible you don’t follow:

Do you not touch a woman when she is on her period???
Do you clean yourself after being in the same room as a women on her period?
Do you wear clothes made of 2 garments???
etc…etc…etc…

Imagine your conversation with your god if he was serious about these garbage laws that riddle your holybook of choice.

Your comment is basically Pascals wager with a little twist, and equally as bunk logically.

Come to a forum where folks believe in God, and surprise! You get answers based upon that faith. Go figure, huh? If the best you can do is take sacred scripture out of context to help rationalize your point of view, then I would invite you to google something else until you hear what you want to hear. You wouldn’t be the first. It happens all the time. Anytime someone doesn’t like hearing something that challenges their personal desires or way of life, they walk away.

That’s too bad, too. Because God loves you and wants you to be with Him in heaven!

 

[Thinkclearly]

Come to a forum where folks believe in God, and surprise! You get answers based upon that faith. Go figure, huh? If the best you can do is take sacred scripture out of context to help rationalize your point of view, then I would invite you to google something else until you hear what you want to hear. You wouldn’t be the first. It happens all the time. Anytime someone doesn’t like hearing something that challenges their personal desires or way of life, they walk away.
!

Walk away, oh no, I’m no troll. I am here for discussion with theists, when I find something illogical, irrational, or just plain bat **** crazy said, I step in and I have no intentions of going enywhere. Also I have taken no scripture out of context, I would bet my last dollar I have studied the bible more than you, I’ve read it cover to cover twice myself and studied it all my life, the entire book, not just a few verses here and there (have you???). Believe me, you do not want to get into an “out of context” debate with me as you will fall dramatically short. Please don’t make the foolish assumption that because someone disagrees with your religions holybook/doctrine that it is because they don’t understand it, or haven’t studied it enough, ofcourse this is flamboyantly absurd!!!

I only use google when needed, my personal notes on my studies of the bible are more than enough, thanks for showing that you are type to make naked assumptions of people, maybe ask next time before you find out how your foot tastes.

That’s too bad, too. Because God loves you and wants you to be with Him in heaven!

I wouldn’t want to be in heaven with your particular god of choice, it would be far to difficult for me to deal with the good people I know who would be suffering in this “hell” place. But that’s just me, having good moral character and all, it would bother me very much, and I wouldn’t be able to enjoy my time. Unlike you I don’t believe something is right because a more powerful entity says it is.

 

[JackVk]

Walk away, oh no, I’m no troll. I am here for discussion with theists, when I find something illogical, irrational, or just plain bat **** crazy said, I step in and I have no intentions of going enywhere. Also I have taken no scripture out of context, I would bet my last dollar I have studied the bible more than you, I’ve read it cover to cover twice myself and studied it all my life, the entire book, not just a few verses here and there (have you???). Believe me, you do not want to get into an “out of context” debate with me as you will fall dramatically short. Please don’t make the foolish assumption that because someone disagrees with your religions holybook/doctrine that it is because they don’t understand it, or haven’t studied it enough, ofcourse this is flamboyantly absurd!!!

I only use google when needed, my personal notes on my studies of the bible are more than enough, thanks for showing that you are type to make naked assumptions of people, maybe ask next time before you find out how your foot tastes.

I wouldn’t want to be in heaven with your particular god of choice, it would be far to difficult for me to deal with the good people I know who would be suffering in this “hell” place. But that’s just me, having good moral character and all, it would bother me very much, and I wouldn’t be able to enjoy my time. Unlike you I don’t believe something is right because a more powerful entity says it is.

Okay, then…
if you’re so smart, then what does that Bible verse mean? Show us how much smarter you are, without calling names and acting like a 2 year old.

 

[Thinkclearly]

But don’t worry, I’m sure I’ll be banned soon enough for (what???) something. Although I will do my very best not to, and keep discussion civil.

 

[JackVk]

But don’t worry, I’m sure I’ll be banned soon enough for (what???) something. Although I will do my very best not to, and keep discussion civil.

You’re the one calling everybody stupid and acting like a little kid. Don’t blame us.

 

[Thinkclearly]

Okay, then…
if you’re so smart, then what does that Bible verse mean? Show us how much smarter you are, without calling names and acting like a 2 year old.

What names have I called you? And how is my response atall indicitive of immaturity?

 

[JackVk]

Ok i’ll play, imagining…

I see the conversation going quite well actually, given this god character is a reasonable rational entity. If it isn’t such an entity, then I would gladly strut my way to wherever it is he’d be sending me because I would have nothing to do with such an entity. Your comment could be applied to anything, how bout eating kosher meat, or muslims that don’t eat pig. You are breaking those laws, and if they are right about their god of choice then imagine your conversation with allah about your pig eating. Ofcourse as a fully indoctrinated Catholic, you are most likely not able to see the proper comparison, brushing it off by saying something equally as bankrupt as “but that is a false religion.”

Also how about the many other laws in your own bible you don’t follow:

Do you not touch a woman when she is on her period???
Do you clean yourself after being in the same room as a women on her period?
Do you wear clothes made of 2 garments???
etc…etc…etc…

Imagine your conversation with your god if he was serious about these garbage laws that riddle your holybook of choice.

Your comment is basically Pascals wager with a little twist, and equally as bunk logically.

LOL!!!
Wait is it a sin because it’s ilegal, or is it a sin because you were able to pull that out of some scripture. If the former, then is it a sin to smoke it in countries where it isn’t illegal? And the later, can you please refer me to where you got that from the bible, and how from whatever scripture you distorded such words do you not have a problem with caffeine???

A condescending attitude and no basis for your claims whatsoever. If you’re just here to troll, we won’t put up with it.