Just wondering

[Twitterpated]

I am divorced and waiting on my annulment. I was just wondering if my marriage is found to be valid, what I will do with my life. Would it be possible for me to become a religious or do my marital vows prevent me from taking vows as a religious? Just wondering…

 

[ljprevo]

I see no reason why not.

What are you seeking? To be a priest? I don’t think you can become a priest being married, however you could become a deacon.

 

[NMJenny]

I have a friend who was in the same position that you are in about 25 years ago. She felt a call to the Discalced Carmelites–it was a fairly complicated process (I think her papers may have had to go all the way to Rome, but I wouldn’t swear to that). I do know that her husband had to sign a paper that he had no problem with her joining the Carmelites.

I’m sure that different orders have different viewpoints on your situation–why don’t you decide exactly which order you are interested in and then talk to them…

 

[Cran]

There might be exceptions as stated above, but usually, a valid marriage (it would be valid if not annulled) would prevent from receiving the holy orders and in most cases, entering a convent, too.

But there are a multitude of third orders, lay institutes, associates and so on that are open to the married and celibate alike.

The received divorce will make no difference in this case, as long as no annullment is received and the marriage laws of the church are observed (in this case: no new marriage), somebody entering with a marriage with dovorce but without annullment would simply be considered as a married member who is living apart from his spouse.

 

[acatholicnun]

If you have an annulment, you are free to marry, enter religious life, or prepare for ordination.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

My marriage was annuled over 20 years ago now and I was advised at the time to seek an annulment and that I had grounds and that an annulment would be necessary to enter religious life. I think that if annulment is denied, The Church regards one as a married person, which of course one is sacramentally. I am unsure however if today one must have an annulment of necessity - hard to keep up sometimes…Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I am divorced and waiting on my annulment. I was just wondering if my marriage is found to be valid, what I will do with my life. Would it be possible for me to become a religious or do my marital vows prevent me from taking vows as a religious? Just wondering…

One avenue for you to find out for sure, would be to ring your diocesan vocations office and if perchance they do not know, they could direct you on how to find out for sure. In this manner you would have your answer from a sure and reliable source.
The apologetics forum here on CAF may be able to answer your question, but if it were me, I would double check with diocesan offices.

God bless you in your seeking…Barb

 

[Archus]

I don’t think you can become a priest being married

Yes you can. The point of priesthood is that it doesn’t matter what you did before, it is that from that point on, you adhere to the vows of poverty, celibacy, and obedience. You would therefore be in a celibate marriage.

It does not negate what has happened before, and does not mean the marriage can never be fulfilled, it means that from the point of taking your vows, you cannot have sex with your wife. It never means you stop loving her as your spouse.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Yes you can. The point of priesthood is that it doesn’t matter what you did before, it is that from that point on, you adhere to the vows of poverty, celibacy, and obedience. You would therefore be in a celibate marriage.

It does not negate what has happened before, and does not mean the marriage can never be fulfilled, it means that from the point of taking your vows, you cannot have sex with your wife. It never means you stop loving her as your spouse.

I have never hear of this before and this is not to dispute that it is not so. When my annulment was under discussion (re applying) I was told that as long as The Church considered me married and of course The Church does not recognize divorce and I am still married in the eyes of The Church, I did not have the freedom from my ‘husband’s’ rights as my husband to enter religious life or even make private vows to the evangelical counsels.

Annulment to me seemed so drastic, though it was stated I did have grounds, in view of my two sons and what it would mean to them. This was all eventually sorted out and resolved happily including with my adult sons, and I applied and after a few years was granted. This was many long years ago.

I find your response in your Post of great interest and am now puzzled. But thank you for posting it - I look forward to any further information posted…Blessings and regards…Bar

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I have never hear of this before and this is not to dispute that it is not so. When my annulment was under discussion (re applying) I was told that as long as The Church considered me married and of course The Church does not recognize divorce and I am still married in the eyes of The Church, I did not have the freedom from my ‘husband’s’ rights as my husband to enter religious life or even make private vows to the evangelical counsels. I have a letter her on diocesan letterhead stating this but not in those precise words…rather it is an official type notification, advising me of my annulment and of my now freedom from all marital obligations and a few other matters.

Annulment to me seemed so drastic, though it was stated I did have grounds, in view of my two sons and what it would mean to them. This was all eventually sorted out and resolved happily including with my adult sons, and I applied and after a few years was granted. This was many long years ago.

I find your response in your Post of great interest and am now puzzled. But thank you for posting it - I look forward to any further information posted…Blessings and regards…Bar

 

[Archus]

I have never hear of this before and this is not to dispute that it is not so. When my annulment was under discussion (re applying) I was told that as long as The Church considered me married and of course The Church does not recognize divorce and I am still married in the eyes of The Church, I did not have the freedom from my ‘husband’s’ rights as my husband to enter religious life or even make private vows to the evangelical counsels.

Annulment to me seemed so drastic, though it was stated I did have grounds, in view of my two sons and what it would mean to them. This was all eventually sorted out and resolved happily including with my adult sons, and I applied and after a few years was granted. This was many long years ago.

I find your response in your Post of great interest and am now puzzled. But thank you for posting it - I look forward to any further information posted…Blessings and regards…Bar

Well I can firstly give an example where this is true. In England, there was a number of priests who came from the Church of England (CofE) to the Catholic Church. Now, the clergy in the CofE can be married. My parish priest at university is still married. He was one of the ones who came over in the 90’s to the Catholic faith and they allowed him and others to keep their wives.

Now, until that point, they were married, and could fulfill that role fully.

At the point where my priest took his vows, he was still married, but could not (to the best of my knowledge) make love to his wife. He is still married, and is a full blown Catholic priest. Taking a vow of celibacy does not mean one cannot remain married, it means one cannot have sex. Because Catholicism does not believe in divorce, his wife could not leave him (she didn’t want to anyway, she’s awesome), and it is still regarded as a valid marriage, and thus is not subject to annulment under Canon Law. So, the compromise is, one might say, is that there isn’t any. A great mark of the faith is that it doesn’t take away your life from before, only build upon it and help it grow, which is why we say in the creed, ‘We acknowledge ONE baptism…’

The priesthood for my priest was added onto his marriage, effectively. Yes, it meant somethings were overwritten, but not destroyed. Oh no, quite the opposite. I actually think they have one of the most holy marriages going.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Hi Archus…Church Law once it gets involved is too complex for me in reality.
Reading your Post, I realized that we have an ex Church of England married priest. Fr. John Fleming. He was married when he converted and applied to enter the priesthood and was accepted and has now been ordained for quite a few years. He does outstanding work in our diocese and is very highly thought of and of course is still married…I never reflected on the issue of conjugal relationships within his marriage - and the vow of celibacy the priesthood requires. What you have said makes sense to me.

Of course, what I was told at the time of thinking about annulment stands as what I was told at that time, and probably the sometimes complex nature of interpreting Church Law comes into things, and things may be different for a divorced woman who wants to enter consecrated religious life or make private vows. Possibly also,* it just could be that my source of advice and the advice given as being Church Law was not fully informed at the time*.
Nowadays we have Canon Lawyers who are available to consult usually through diocesan office. Or one could put one’s case to the Vocations Office of the diocese asking what does apply or does not apply under Church Law and what one’s position may be.

Thanks and again for helpful information, and on issue I have never reflected on really - nor ever occured to me - thus never sought to clarify re those married priests in our Roman Rite and celibacy/conjugal relationships within their marriage. And of course, we do have some married priests in our Roman Rite…and your comments do make sense to me.

Blessings and regards…Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Just a bit fascinated as to how a man and woman married over a long term and then the man becoming a Catholic priest (as in the case of some non Catholic priests who convert and become priests) would live out a mutual vow of celibacy (I thought it would be rather difficult living together a normal conjugal relationship and then to live together clibate, although not impossible), and I came across this answer by Father Wiliam Saunders, which states that the disciplinary only rule of celibacy is waived in those instances of married non Catholic priests later converting to Catholicsm and then admitted to our Holy Orders.
Insfar as I am aware, anyway, Father Saunders is a reliable source. I must state though that I am not familiar with the complexities at times of Church Law and provisos, one Canon Law paragraph qualifying in some way another Canon Law paragraph etc. This, however, is what Father Saunders has to say:
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/MARPRIE.htm

In other words, an ordained Episcopalian minister would make a profession of Faith and be received into the Catholic Church, and thereupon receive the Sacrament of Confirmation. He would then take appropriate courses which would enable him to minister as a Catholic priest.

After proper examination by his Catholic bishop and with the permission of the Holy Father, he would be then ordained first as a Catholic transitional deacon and then as a priest. If the former Episcopalian minister were single at the time of his ordination as a Catholic deacon and then priest, he would indeed take the vow of celibacy.

If the married former Episcopalian minister were ordained as a Catholic deacon and then priest, he would be exempt by a special favor from the Holy Father of making the promise of celibacy

; however, if he later became a widower, then he would be bound to a celibate lifestyle and could not remarry. In the future, if a lay member of one of these reunited parishes wanted to become a Catholic priest, he would be required to take the promise of celibacy
The promise of celibacy is waived as a favor to those married clergy, given their particular circumstances and their desire to unite with the Catholic Church. However, the Holy Father has repeatedly affirmed the discipline of celibacy on Roman Catholic clergy of the Latin Rite. (Outside the United States, the Eastern Rites do not require the promise of celibacy except for bishops.)
Pope Paul VI in his encyclical, “Sacerdotalis Caelibatus” (1967) reflected that celibacy is an identification with Christ, who Himself was celibate; an act of sacrificial love whereby a priest gives of himself totally to the service of God and His Church; and a sign of the coming Kingdom of God, where Our Lord said, “In the resurrection, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven” (Mt 22:30).