Justice should sometimes cause rudeness?

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fakename

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If someone is saying “Hi” to you while you are thinking about high-lofty concepts (say platonic forms or something), then who has a more just claim to the time? Is it the person who is doing “big things” with his mind, and so should not be made to lower himself to the other person or is it the other person who is promoting “low” and “mundane” values by asking the philosopher to speak?

It makes sense that this is true, since the more important should come prior to the less important but the problem is that if it is true, then you could never answer anyone if you are thinking abstractly.
 
Internal justice in the Platonic sense (one of may favorite parts of Plato’s thinking) does mean subjecting what is lower in our faculties to what is higher. However, I doubt even Plato would have derived from this the idea that it is unjust to ever shift one’s contemplation from the ethereal to the mundane. The intellect is our noblest faculty, but it in turn reveals to us the moral necessity of, for example, attending to the needs of the body, or, in the example you gave, of loving one’s neighbor and ministering to him.

I’m reminded of a spiritual example of the same or a similar concept: a story told by Fr. Benedict Groeschel, which I will repeat as best I can from memory.

A religious man (I think I remember who but I’m not sure, so I’ll leave out the name) was praying and received a mystical vision of Christ. As he was looking at Christ a poor man came seeking food, or a brother friar came reminding the man it was time to serve the poor, or something along those lines. The man was then filled with doubt as to whether he should go and do his mundane duty or stay with Christ and receive whatever message or consolation He had appeared for. He decided to go help the poor, and hours later he returned to his chapel or cell or wherever he had been, wondering if Jesus would still be there. He was, and He said to the man, “if you had stayed, I should have fled.”
 
Thinking abstractly is essentially just daydreaming. Anybody who refuses to talk to people who interrupt their daydreams is just plain rude.
 
I wish you wouldn’t have bothered me with this post while I was thinking. :mad:

Seriously, what about the high-lofty concpet of humility?

I’m sure Jesus had some lofty thoughts, being God and all. Yet he had time for sinners, tax collectors and people with no other thought than to be releived if their suffering.

-Tim-
 
I wish you wouldn’t have bothered me with this post while I was thinking. :mad:

Seriously, what about the high-lofty concpet of humility?

I’m sure Jesus had some lofty thoughts, being God and all. Yet he had time for sinners, tax collectors and people with no other thought than to be releived if their suffering.

-Tim-
The concept of humility is reasonable knowledge of one’s own capability -that is to recognize one’s own inferiority if it exists. But in this case the philosopher is not inferior and so he is being as humble as he can be by being rude.

Just the opposite, the person being importunate should recognize his own inferiority to the philosopher.

And one can have time for others even if you don’t have time for them at the moment. Secondly, God’s thoughts are not successive so he thinks above time, w/o the possibility of being interrupted, so there is no comparison.
 
The concept of humility is reasonable knowledge of one’s own capability -that is to recognize one’s own inferiority if it exists. But in this case the philosopher is not inferior and so he is being as humble as he can be by being rude.

Just the opposite, the person being importunate should recognize his own inferiority to the philosopher.

And one can have time for others even if you don’t have time for them at the moment. Secondly, God’s thoughts are not successive so he thinks above time, w/o the possibility of being interrupted, so there is no comparison.
Your definition of humility is correct. However I don’t believe it involves superiority/inferiority ideas. That seems like more of a judgment. I question the assessment of one who considers himself superior to others. Doesn’t the Church teach us that we are all equal in God’s eyes? I do remeber Jesus saying something about the person who wants to be great among us being our servant. Our gifts, even our ability to think great thoughts was given us by God and is to be used for the betterment of society.
 
If someone is saying “Hi” to you while you are thinking about high-lofty concepts (say platonic forms or something), then who has a more just claim to the time? Is it the person who is doing “big things” with his mind, and so should not be made to lower himself to the other person or is it the other person who is promoting “low” and “mundane” values by asking the philosopher to speak?

It makes sense that this is true, since the more important should come prior to the less important but the problem is that if it is true, then you could never answer anyone if you are thinking abstractly.
*“Let nothing be done through contention, neither by vain glory: but in humility, let each esteem others better than themselves” *Philippians 2:3

what we must realize with humility, is not where we stand with regard to men, but where we stand with regard to God,
compared to God we are nothing, and without Him we can do nothing (John 15:5)
so, owing all to God, and having nothing of ourselves, how exactly are we superior or more important than any one of our neighbors? all of our knowledge and goodness and talents and skills and virtues are all from God, and we have no right to glory in them whatsoever, but we must give glory to God only and thank Him for whatever we have received,
we have no right to consider ourselves above others, because what we have is not our own, and so of ourselves we are above no one, but only by God do we have anything good,
and so if it belongs to God, as He can take or give as He sees fit, then what makes one person above another?
although true humility is not about considering yourself as less than you are, but simply as seeing yourself as you really are, which you will only truly see by the grace of God, in which case you must pray for it.

but to answer your question more specifically…no, you should not be rude and ignore someone just because you’re having some “lofty concepts”, because remember that “as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.” Matthew 25:40
you must see Christ in everyone, and consider them above you, even if only, at the very least, in their hearts, and you must also consider how God loves them so deeply, and how it pleases God that you be charitable and gentle with them,

humility does not only consist of how you see yourself, it consists of all of Gods truths, which include His laws, teachings, and virtues, humility is the virtue of truth, whereas pride is the vice of lies,
and the truth of the matter is, your neighbor is more important than your “lofty concepts”, since Christ told us, that the greatest commandment is that we love God above all else with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, and the second is like to that, that we love our neighbor as ourselves, so it should be God first, others second, and myself third…of course that does not mean we neglect our daily needs, but it simply means that we prefer others over ourselves, so while we must still take care of our own spiritual and temporal needs, we should not neglect others just because we’re absorbed in some other important occupation, no matter how lofty it may seem…

what we read in the bible about humility, and by all the saints, is that we are to regard others as being better than ourselves, but humility is not just about believing others as being better than you, it’s more about regarding others more highly or favorably, and to regard them with respect or admiration,
of course that does not mean we tolerate their sin and neglect to correct them through the vice of human respect, which would be against the virtue of charity, but instead we must act according to the laws and teachings of Christ…which is another subject i won’t get into right now.

what we also must consider, is that even if we are absorbed in some holy thought, we can’t assume that that thought is more important than talking to some person who passes by to say hello, because if we consider that it is God who sends them our way, then what could be more important? in which case, you should also learn about divine providence, and uniformity to the will of God, which you can read about here - gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=18175319
gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=18087275

Humility is a deep subject, it contains every truth, it binds together every virtue, and as i have read, that if one were to have perfect humility, they would be almost guaranteed heaven, not by the humility itself, but by where humility leads,
unfortunately, pride it very tricky, and it can be difficult even to see, but even still, with God all things are possible, and “I can do all things in Him who strengtheneth me”

but…i don’t want to make this to lengthy, although if you want to discuss it further, i’m happy to do so, so feel free to ask more questions.

but if you want to understand humility in greater detail, i would highly recommend this book - tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/47
that book explains humility so well and from so many aspects, and i don’t think i could recommend a better one.

well, i guess that’s all, so i hope this helps, take care.
 
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