Justification / Sanctification

[gracelife]

**Quote from here.
**In fact, it is impossible for an unjustified person to do supernaturally good works, since these are based on the virtue of charity (supernatural love), which an unjustified person does not have. Good works therefore flow from our reception of justification; they do not cause us to enter a state of justification. Good works increase the righteousness we are given at justification and please God, who promises to give us supernatural rewards on the last day, including the gift of eternal life (Rom. 2:6-7, Gal. 6:6-10).

So are good works are a fruit of our justification? (Protestants would agree)

But, how can good works “increase the righteousness we are given at justification?” Is this speaking of sanctification, then?

We are justified by Grace, through faith in Christ’s atoning sacrifice. By saying we can increase our righteousness through good works, it sounds like we would be giving less to what God did for us through Christ’s work.

By doing good works we become more sanctified?
or is God our only hope for santification?
other?

 

[gardenswithkids]

By doing good works we become more sanctified?
or is God our only hope for santification?

The answer is yes. It’s not one or the other; it’s both.

God is our only hope for sanctification. We can either accept or reject His sanctifying grace. We show God that we accept His grace by doing that which He asks us to do. (He’s not just looking for lip service–we answer by our actions.) If we accept His grace, He usually turns around and offers us yet more grace. Thus, although we may have already been filled with sanctifying grace we become “more sanctified”.

Picture it like filling a water balloon–He fill us with His sanctifying grace, and He will continue to add more grace as long as we keep stretching. If we respond to His grace by stretching ourselves (sometimes beyond our comfort level) we grow in holiness. A small, unstretched water balloon might be full, but it doesn’t hold as much water as it might be capable of holding. A Christian might still be sanctified, but may not hold as much grace as he is capable of holding (by accepting more of God’s grace through doing His will.) Water balloons can’t add water to themselves, and we can’t add grace to ourselves. Grace comes from God in the first place, and it’s our role to allow Him to add as much grace as He pleases.

 

[gracelife]

So God is the justifier through Grace.

and Catholics believe we are sanctified initially in our justification (given a measure of grace), but more grace can be added through our cooperation with God.

Is that right?

---

If we are justified, what is the purpose of sanctification? The line between justification and santification seems so narrow.

 

[gardenswithkids]

So God is the justifier through Grace.

and Catholics believe we are sanctified initially in our justification (given a measure of grace), but more grace can be added through our cooperation with God.

Is that right?

Yes, mostly. The life of grace begins at our baptism, in which God bestows on us the gift of sanctifying grace. But remember we as Catholics believe we can loose sanctifying grace through mortal sin, so while our justification begins at our baptism, it isn’t over until our earthly death and purgation. As we live our Christian lives, ideally we grow in God’s grace.

The Catechism writes about the life of grace “Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.” You can read more about it in part three of the Catechism: Life in Christ found here beginning at CCC 1987: scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm#1999

If we are justified, what is the purpose of sanctification? The line between justification and santification seems so narrow.

They are very closely related. Sanctification is part of the justification process, (the part in which we grow in holiness.) The catechism glossary defines justification as “The gracious action of God which frees us from sin and communicates ‘the rightiousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ’ . Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.”

I hope this helps. I love this topic and would be happy to discuss it more.

 

[gracelife]

Thank you for your charitable answers.

I still need more help in this:

We are justified by Grace, through faith in Christ’s atoning sacrifice. By saying we can increase our righteousness through good works, *it sounds like we would be giving less to what God did for us through Christ’s work. *

1. If Christ took care of it through his death and ressurrection, why do we need to do more?
2. Why are not the things we do simply fruits of our salvation, rather than “must do’s”.
3. Are the things we do salvific or simply for our heavenly rewards?

 

[Verita]

Thank you for your charitable answers.

I still need more help in this:

We are justified by Grace, through faith in Christ’s atoning sacrifice. By saying we can increase our righteousness through good works, *it sounds like we would be giving less to what God did for us through Christ’s work. *

Well, what exactly is it you believe Christ did for us?

1. If Christ took care of it through his death and ressurrection, why do we need to do more?

Did Christ take away our tendency to sin? I look around me and the answer is a resounding NO! Overcoming those sinful human desires is a long and difficult process: sanctification. We must continually resist sin and strive to make all of our actions good.

1. Why are not the things we do simply fruits of our salvation, rather than “must do’s”.

As was previously pointed out, the Church teaches that we can lose our salvation through mortal sin or rejection of Christ. So one way to look at it is that our fruits aren’t so much things we “must do” to be saved as things we “must do” if we don’t want to lose our salvation through sin and neglect. Also, they are things we must do because we have been instructed to by Jesus himself.

 

[gracelife]

I’m still working through this so bear with me. Not being argumentative.

Well, what exactly is it you believe Christ did for us?

Romans 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Rom. 3:24 justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus

Did Christ take away our tendency to sin? I look around me and the answer is a resounding NO! Overcoming those sinful human desires is a long and difficult process: sanctification. We must continually resist sin and strive to make all of our actions good.

Agreed. The tendency to sin remains.

We must remain in Christ. Apart from him we can do nothing.
John 15:4-5

Any goodness we do is done through grace, by prompting of the Holy Spirit not of our own doing. It is a fruit of our justificiation. How can we take credit for it?

As was previously pointed out, the Church teaches that we can lose our salvation through mortal sin or rejection of Christ. So one way to look at it is that our fruits aren’t so much things we “must do” to be saved as things we “must do” if we don’t want to lose our salvation through sin and neglect. Also, they are things we must do because we have been instructed to by Jesus himself.

Agree, we lose salvation through rejection of Christ’s work.

Agree, we do things because Christ instructed/commanded them.
But this I’m thinking this flows from the grace received from God and our love & desire to please God, not to earn our salvation.

Thinking aloud here: reflecting on James 2
The good we do shows our faith* is* alive, not to keep it alive.
(I would agree we are not justified by faith alone.)

Our faith is kept alive through God’s word & the sacraments. These as well are gifts, not of ourselves. It is God’s grace that draws us to these gifts.

 

[MariaG]

**Any goodness we do is done through grace, by prompting of the Holy Spirit not of our own doing. It is a fruit of our justificiation. How can we take credit for it? **

But this I’m thinking this flows from the grace received from God and our love & desire to please God, not to earn our salvation.

Respectfully, reread all that you have been answered. Nowhere does anyone say that we take credit for the fruit. And nowhere does it even hint that we do these things to earn our salvation.

Again, respectfully, you are placing a preconceived understanding of Catholic teaching that just is not there. Catholics do not teach that we can earn our salvation as as was explained above, do not take any credit for any of the works that flow from that justification.

Maybe you could specifically quote and highlight the responses that make you believe we think we can earn our salvation in anyway or take credit for the fruit?

Was it the good works increase righteousness from your OP? None of the further responses clarified that for you?

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Verita]

I’m still working through this so bear with me. Not being argumentative.

Romans 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Rom. 3:24 justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus

I was hoping for something in your own words.

Agreed. The tendency to sin remains.

We must remain in Christ. Apart from him we can do nothing.
John 15:4-5

Any goodness we do is done through grace, by prompting of the Holy Spirit not of our own doing. It is a fruit of our justificiation. How can we take credit for it?

We shouldn’t take credit for it. We should thank God for giving us the strength to accept his grace and allow him to make us more holy. None of that is possible apart from Him. However, it still takes a conscious effort on our part. Because of Free Will God cannot just force our sanctification on us. We have to be open to it.

Again we should never take credit for it. If you read about the Saints they are constantly attributing their holiness only to God.

Agree, we lose salvation through rejection of Christ’s work.

Agree, we do things because Christ instructed/commanded them.
But this I’m thinking this flows from the grace received from God and our love & desire to please God, not to earn our salvation.

Thinking aloud here: reflecting on James 2
The good we do shows our faith* is* alive, not to keep it alive.
(I would agree we are not justified by faith alone.)

Our faith is kept alive through God’s word & the sacraments. These as well are gifts, not of ourselves. It is God’s grace that draws us to these gifts.

Earn is a bad word to use. I myself have never heard it used by a Catholic, only by non-Catholics when accusing Catholics of believing false teaching. To earn something entails that you are worthy of it, that it is owed to you. Catholics believe no such thing.

Salvation is not something we could ever earn of ourselves. Only because of the atonement can we fully enter into God’s grace. However, that doesn’t mean that we should just sit back like mindless zombies and let God do all the work. God never wanted to do all the work. He wants us to respond to his gift by striving to meet his standards. We never can without his help, but if we give it our best effort he will give us the help we need (his grace).

Because God is like a parent and we are like a child with difficult homework. God doesn’t just want to give us all the answers. We’ll never learn that way. He wants us to give it our best effort and then he will give us all the help we need to complete our task.

 

[MariaG]

Maybe if you read this article on the difference in the definition of Catholic Justification and Protestant Justification it would help.

Although the same words can be used, there are different theological meanings that Protestants put upon the words than Catholics have historically used.

Justification from New Advent. Also related to this is this topic and understanding is the article Sanctifying Grace and this one Controversies On Grace

I would encourage you to take the time to read the articles, it would help you better understand what is meant by Catholics when we use the words justification, sanctification and even grace.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

Further, there are even differences in the definition of the word faith.

What most protestants today define as Faith alone is actually Faith, Hope and Charity by Catholic definitions.

Faith is the intellectual assent by Catholic definitions which is why “faith alone” is/was so soundly rejected by Catholic scholars.

Also from New Advent

Faith
Faith is an infused virtue, by which the intellect is perfected by a supernatural light, in virtue of which, under a supernatural movement of the will, it assents firmly to the supernatural truths of Revelation, not on the motive of intrinsic evidence, but on the sole ground of the infallible authority of God revealing. For as man is guided in the attainment of natural happiness by principles of knowledge known by the natural light of reason, so also in the attainment of his supernatural destiny his intellect must be illumined by certain supernatural principles, namely, Divinely revealed truths. (See FAITH.)
Hope
But not only man’s intellect must be perfected with regard to his supernatural end, his will also must tend to that end, as a good possible of attainment. Now the virtue, by which the will is so perfected, is the theological virtue of hope. It is commonly defined as a Divinely infused virtue, by which we trust, with an unshaken confidence grounded on the Divine assistance, to attain life everlasting.
Charity But the will must not only tend to God, its ultimate end, it must also be united to Him by a certain conformity. This spiritual union or conformity, by which the soul is united to God, the sovereign Good, is effected by charity. Charity, then, is that theological virtue, by which God, our ultimate end, known by supernatural light, is loved by reason of His own intrinsic goodness or amiability, and our neighbour loved on account of God. It differs from faith, as it regards God not under the aspect of truth but of good. It differs from hope inasmuch as it regards God not as our good precisely (nobis bonum), but as good in Himself (in se bonum). But this love of God as good in Himself does not, as the Quietists maintained, exclude the love of God as He is our good (see QUIETISM). With regard to the love of our neighbor, it falls within the theological virtue of charity in so far as its motive is the supernatural love of God, and it is thus distinguished from mere natural affection. Of the three theological virtues, charity is the most excellent. Faith and hope, involving as they do a certain imperfection, namely, obscurity of light and absence of possession, will cease with this life, but charity involving no essential defect will last forever. Moreover, while charity excludes all mortal sin, faith and hope are compatible with grievous sin; but as such they are only imperfect virtues; it is only when informed and vivified by charity that their acts are meritorious of eternal life (see LOVE, THEOLOGICAL VIRTUE OF).

There is another easier article on this by Jimmy Akin which I cannot find at the moment.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[gracelife]

MariaG:

Again, respectfully, you are placing a preconceived understanding of Catholic teaching that just is not there. Catholics do not teach that we can earn our salvation as as was explained above, do not take any credit for any of the works that flow from that justification.

It wasn’t necessarily my preconceived notion. I was trying to figure out what the actual teaching is. Still, many people believe that the Catholic church teaches there is something you do to earn salvation.

I think the notion stems from the idea of “cooperating with God”. With the idea of cooperation, it seems that the church is saying we can do something to earn salvation. Perhaps this is just a misunderstanding and I appreciate when it is explained more fully.

With regards to the above posts, Sometimes when the church or we explain things replies we all get rather wordy. I imagine it is an effort clarify and be distinct, but sometimes that makes it more difficult to understand.

Your statement is consice and clear. I appreciate it.

Love in Christ.

 

[gracelife]

I was hoping for something in your own words.

My words mean nothing compared to Gods.

 

[MariaG]

It wasn’t necessarily my preconceived notion. I was trying to figure out what the actual teaching is. Still, many people believe that the Catholic church teaches there is something you do to earn salvation.

I think the notion stems from the idea of “cooperating with God”. With the idea of cooperation, it seems that the church is saying we can do something to earn salvation. Perhaps this is just a misunderstanding and I appreciate when it is explained more fully.

With regards to the above posts, Sometimes when the church or we explain things replies we all get rather wordy. I imagine it is an effort clarify and be distinct, but sometimes that makes it more difficult to understand.

Your statement is consice and clear. I appreciate it.

Love in Christ.

You are welcome

I know what you mean about the Church statements. Even Jimmy Akin when he explains church statements like faith alone and Faith, hope and charity gets wordy

The unfortunate reality is that many do in fact believe that the Catholic Church teaches that we can earn our way to heaven. Even after we explain that we don’t, some still insist that we must have at least at one time or another.

In fact, one of the funniest conversations I had with a non-Catholic here was when he/she? started quoting the teachings of the Catholic Church and asked us to explain how on earth we could believe that we earn our way to heaven since the teachings of the Catholic Church clearly did not say that.

When I kindly told him we did not believe that he said we must have taught it at one time because “everyone knows” that Catholics think they can earn their way to heaven through good works .

I am glad you are seeking out the actual teachings of the Catholic Church instead of relying on the knowledge that “everyone knows”.

The Catholic Church views works in the same manner as Scripture when it tells us the Abraham was Justified by his works as was Rahab. (James 2:21-26). One understands that the work itself separate from Faith is not going to get one to heaven. But the work in fact, does justify one as scripture tells us.

Catholic “faith and works” is the explanation of how works by themselves will not save one, but one is definitely justified by works as scripture states. But TRIES to clarify the fact that although we will be justified by our works, we cannot boast of them for it was because of grace in the first place, that we were able to do them.

And again, since I too, got wordy , this in no way means that Catholics think we can earn our salvation through good deeds. There will be very nice people who did a very many “good” deeds by secular definitions who will end up in hell.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[gracelife]

Thank you for your replies so far.

I have my homework Maria and I will read the articles you recommended tonight.

 

[gardenswithkids]

…I was trying to figure out what the actual teaching is. Still, many people believe that the Catholic church teaches there is something you do to earn salvation.

I think the notion stems from the idea of “cooperating with God”. With the idea of cooperation, it seems that the church is saying we can do something to earn salvation. Perhaps this is just a misunderstanding and I appreciate when it is explained more fully.

With regards to the above posts, Sometimes when the church or we explain things replies we all get rather wordy. I imagine it is an effort clarify and be distinct, but sometimes that makes it more difficult to understand.

Sorry, I know I can get wordy . I hope I didn’t make it more difficult, but I see how something I wrote might have confused you so I want to clarify. When I wrote “mostly yes” earlier I refered to your second part of your statement, which was mostly right but used a slightly different definition of justification. Your previous statement that “God is the justifier through grace” I believe is entirely correct.

Most concisely put by St. Teresa of Avila, “It’s all grace.”

 

[Verita]

My words mean nothing compared to Gods.

How can you actually understand what you believe if you can’t put it into your own words?

 

[gracelife]

How can you actually understand what you believe if you can’t put it into your own words?

I believe Jesus lived a perfect life, he died for our sins, and rose from the dead for our justification. He became sin for our sins.

We receive our justification by believing in the above. This faith is brought on by grace. Grace & faith are both gifts of God.

Now, obviously, the reason for the discussion is:
I’m not sure what I believe regarding “faith working in love”
OR
I can do nothing, God did it all through Christ’s atoning sacrifice and His gifts of faith & grace. The faith, the grace are all from God, it is a gift, why would I need to do anything else? He gave it to me.

How do Catholics explain the “not of works”, in Ephesians 2:8-9?

Verita, what do you believe Christ did for us?

 

[MariaG]

…Now, obviously, the reason for the discussion is:
I’m not sure what I believe regarding “faith working in love”
OR
I can do nothing, God did it all through Christ’s atoning sacrifice and His gifts of faith & grace. The faith, the grace are all from God, it is a gift, why would I need to do anything else? He gave it to me.

How do Catholics explain the “not of works”, in Ephesians 2:8-9?

…

Excuse me for just a minute while I do not answer your question of Scripture but ask you to think about scripture to help answer your question. I believe I can help answer your question as to why Catholics do not interpret Eph. as Protestants (yet do use many other scriptures to help in interpreting scripture as a whole) and “why do I need to do anything with what God gave me?” aspect of your question.

While I am certainly not a KJV “onlyist”, I think the KJV has a particular strong and clear translation concerning this parable.

:bible1: Matthew 25.14 - 30

14: For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15: And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16: Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17: And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18: But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.
19: After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20: And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21: His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22: He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23: His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24: Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26: His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28: Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29: For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30: And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This is what “faith and works” is all about. Not being an unprofitable servant.

As for Ephesians, this refers to the “works” of the Mosaic law or “legal works”. If one continues on in scripture to read verse ten, we see that when we become a new creation in Christ, it goes hand in hand with good works. Not works of the law, but good works or fruit.

Most Protestants say “fruit”. Catholics would say “works” or good works. As you can see even from this KJV, Scripture uses the word works also.

Epheshians 2:8-10
8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If you would like a more detailed explanation, go to Scripture Catholic and you will find a nice detailed explanation of Ephesians 2:8-9, 10, 11-16 This is undert he general title of Justification in which there are many different scripture verses with the “catholic answer”.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

I also have to say that this view tends to get distorted into the view that Catholics do things because they are afraid of going to hell.

That is not true. As a revert to the Catholic Church, I think the difference is that when in a fundamental Protestant churches, one was expected to “naturally” have fruit. If one believed in Christ and had a true faith, one naturally did good works or produced fruit. If one did not naturally want to do these things, one was either not saved to begin with or was back slidding.

But in the Catholic Church, we believe it is a process. One that becomes more natural, (a virtue that grows as we choose to accept the gift of grace that God gives us), but sometimes is just a choice to do the right thing because we love Christ.

God Bless,
Maria