Justification: What is Necessary? Works or Initial Justification Only?

[bcirka]

I am trying to fine-tune my understanding of the Catholic position on Justification. Catholics believe that we are saved by faith in Baptism (initial justification), but that we can lose our justification, through the loss of sanctifying grace in mortal sin. This sanctifying grace can be reinstated through reconciliation.

My question is, do Catholics teach that works are necessary for salvation, in addition to the initial justification received at baptism. OR, do Catholics teach that one’s works don’t necessary help our salvation, but can harm it (if our works are evil). I assume the former, I’m just not sure why at this point. Another way of looking at this question is: If a man is baptized, and then never commits a mortal sin (indulge the scenario), would he be saved?

Appreciate all your insight, and look forward to the discussion.

 

[JRKH]

Works are necessary because faith without works is dead (James 2:14-18).

Peace
James

 

[Robyn_p]

I am trying to fine-tune my understanding of the Catholic position on Justification. Catholics believe that we are saved by faith in Baptism (initial justification), but that we can lose our justification, through the loss of sanctifying grace in mortal sin. This sanctifying grace can be reinstated through reconciliation.

My question is, do Catholics teach that works are necessary for salvation, in addition to the initial justification received at baptism. OR, do Catholics teach that one’s works don’t necessary help our salvation, but can harm it (if our works are evil). I assume the former, I’m just not sure why at this point. Another way of looking at this question is: If a man is baptized, and then never commits a mortal sin (indulge the scenario), would he be saved?

Appreciate all your insight, and look forward to the discussion.

Yes, works done in Christ are necessary for salvation, because faith without works is dead. Good works keep faith alive, so they are absolutely crucial. But, as you know, we have to have faith for our works to be worth anything. We can’t earn our way to heaven by works, it’s a free gift, but we do have to cooperate with God’s grace by doing good works.

And yes, if a man was baptized and never committed a mortal sin he would be saved. Mortal sin is what bars entrance into heaven. If a man was baptized, and had sanctifying grace in his soul, and never lost it, then he would go to heaven. Probably need a little pruning in purgatory, but he would be assured entrance into heaven.

Now what if he never did anything bad, but never anything good either? Is that enough? I would have to say no. If someone really never did any good in their entire life, not just material good, but never even showed any love to any hurting soul, never gave any part of himself to anyone, never prayed for anyone, then that demonstrates a lukewarm soul. Lukewarmness, or spiritual sloth, is itself a mortal sin and something that will keep one from heaven according to Christ. (Rev 3:15-16)

Not that every single person has to be a Mother Teresa, that’s not feasible for all of us, but we all do need to be practicing charity. We have to be living a grace-filled virtuous life. We need to be cooperating with God’s grace to the extent we are able. Anything less is rejecting His gift, and how can we expect to be with Him for eternity if we do that?

 

[kingston1]

I haven’t read the other posters reply to your question so forgive me if they said the same thing. God is beyond me, being “saved” is beyond me… I don’t know what God wants from me or any of us. Do you? All I know is I have the sacraments, I pray and I wait. Whatever presents itself is what I do. “Works” is a term that could mean alot of things… do you mean by “works” you must go out into the world and provide clean water to someone without it, or give your possessions to the poor, or provide aid to the widow and orphan? Could “works” also just mean this: if you are seeking God through the sacraments which is the only way I know how to do that (not saying there are or are not other ways, don’t overthink it), e.g. receiving the eucharist, going to confession, etc.; and because of this you are called to do other things such as support RCIA, tithe, coach, be a parent, be a nice driver on the road, help out your church, etc then aren’t you are doing works?

Don’t over think it… just be.

 

[JamesTheJust]

I am trying to fine-tune my understanding of the Catholic position on Justification. Catholics believe that we are saved by faith in Baptism (initial justification), but that we can lose our justification, through the loss of sanctifying grace in mortal sin. This sanctifying grace can be reinstated through reconciliation.

My question is, do Catholics teach that works are necessary for salvation, in addition to the initial justification received at baptism. OR, do Catholics teach that one’s works don’t necessary help our salvation, but can harm it (if our works are evil). I assume the former, I’m just not sure why at this point. Another way of looking at this question is: If a man is baptized, and then never commits a mortal sin (indulge the scenario), would he be saved?

Appreciate all your insight, and look forward to the discussion.

Your assumption of the former is correct.

The way I understand this aspect of justification in Catholic doctrine is this: if one has the opportunity to do works, by God’s unmerited grace, after initial justification, yet one refuses consistently, one will be damned (cf. James 4:17). This is why legitimate deathbed conversions are almost always valid.

I’m not sure about the scenario you propose. I would say that, as I understand it, works are either good or evil. If a man does no evil works, he must, then, do only good works, which, when done by God’s unmerited grace after initial salvation, obtain salvation.

 

[benjamindt]

If I love and accept Christ and believe in Him, then it will show via my works. If my daughter says she loves vacuuming but I never see her vacuum, would I not be right in thinking she doesn’t love it?

 

[JamesTheJust]

Your assumption of the former is correct.

The way I understand this aspect of justification in Catholic doctrine is this: if one has the opportunity to do works, by God’s unmerited grace, after initial justification, yet one refuses consistently, one will be damned (cf. James 4:17). This is why legitimate deathbed conversions are almost always valid.

I’m not sure about the scenario you propose. I would say that, as I understand it, works are either good or evil. If a man does no evil works, he must, then, do only good works, which, when done by God’s unmerited grace after initial salvation, obtain salvation.

That bolded word should be justification, not salvation. Sorry, I was typing on my mobile phone.

 

[Jonathan_1995]

Would it be correct to say that initial justification is by grace through faith (without works). However, since salvation is also a process, salvation in its entirety is not by faith alone or grace alone?

 

[JRKH]

Would it be correct to say that initial justification is by grace through faith (without works). However, since salvation is also a process, salvation in its entirety is not by faith alone or grace alone?

All salvation is by grace and through faith…

But yes - I think that putting it this way makes sense.

Peace
James

 

[steve_b]

Would it be correct to say that initial justification is by grace through faith (without works). However, since salvation is also a process, salvation in its entirety is not by faith alone or grace alone?

justification and salvation are often used interchangeably

Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God— 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

The question to ask, what happens to the person who does not do what they are created by God to do?

Matthew 3:10 , Luke 3:9 , Luke 13:7-9 , Matthew 25:44-46

 

[Jonathan_1995]

All salvation is by grace and through faith…

But yes - I think that putting it this way makes sense.

Peace
James

Well is all salvation by grace alone and through faith alone, i.e. no works involved? Not even the process of salvation, or the final salvation? Since Catholic teaching is that justification is by grace through faith and charity/works, however not the initial justification.

 

[JRKH]

Well is all salvation by grace alone and through faith alone, i.e. no works involved? Not even the process of salvation, or the final salvation? Since Catholic teaching is that justification is by grace through faith and charity/works, however not the initial justification.

When you start listing multiple things -following each one with “alone”, you have, IMHO, just created an oxymoron.

I would be curious to know why people feel that they need to speak this way.

Salvation comes through Grace…
Faith comes through Grace
Works comes through Grace…

So if one wishes to declare a “sole” means of salvation - is it not through grace?

Jesus did not teach a “sola” unless it be Sola Agape (Love).
“They will know you are my disciples by your Love…”(John 13:34-35)
“You must be perfect (in love) as your heavenly father is perfect” (Mt 5:48)
All the Law and Prophets are based on Love (Mt 22:36-40)
Of the virtues the greatest is Love (1 Cor 13:1-13)
And ultimately - -
We know that God IS Love (1 John4:7-8)

So - if God is Love, and we are saved through God’s grace which is from God - are we not saved by Love? Are we not saved by the very essence of God? Then - what is grace if it is not God’s Love infused into us and what is our response to that Love if not our showing that Love to each other and to the world.

Sorry - got caught behind a runaway train of thought…:choocho:

Peace
James

 

[Jim_Baur]

For me, this explains Biblical justification.

---

**Ephesians 6: 14 So stand fast with your loins girded in truth, clothed with righteousness as a breastplate **(“thorax”), 15 and your feet shod in readiness for the gospel of peace.

---

I Thessalonians 5: 8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate****(“*******thorax”***) of faith and love and the helmet that is hope for salvation.

---

Galatians 5: 6 For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working (“energeo”) through love.

Isaiah 59: 17 He put on righteousness as his breastplate, and the helmet of salvation on his head; he put on the garments of vengeance and wrapped himself in zeal as in a cloak.

Next, we need good works, not human works. It is God’s works that save us. He works in us and through us. It is HIS love that works in us; it is not human works.

---

 

[Jonathan_1995]

Works comes through Grace…

Well do all works come through grace? I think I read that Catholic teaching is that some works can be done apart from grace?

What about works of the law for example?

What about works without charity, out of selfish motives, like seeking praise from men?

 

[JRKH]

Well do all works come through grace? I think I read that Catholic teaching is that some works can be done apart from grace?

What about works of the law for example?

What about works without charity, out of selfish motives, like seeking praise from men?

Which is why works alone cannot save.

Peace
James

 

[Amandil]

I don’t understand why the question about what is “necessary”?

It’s almost like someone is asking “what is the least I must do to be saved so that I can go about being “good”(I.e. being “me”) and not have to worry about the rest?”

Is our God a minimalistic God?

 

[Bookcat]

This is an old thread.

Here though:

Pope Benedict XVI on Faith and Works in Paul:

(Two audiences from the Year of St. Paul)

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html (begins a bit down)

 

[JRKH]

I don’t understand why the question about what is “necessary”?

It’s almost like someone is asking “what is the least I must do to be saved so that I can go about being “good”(I.e. being “me”) and not have to worry about the rest?”

Is our God a minimalistic God?

 

[Jim_Baur]

From Benedict:

Being just simply means being with Christ and in Christ. And this suffices. Further observances are no longer necessary. For this reason Luther’s phrase: “faith alone” is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love. Faith is looking at Christ, entrusting oneself to Christ, being united to Christ, conformed to Christ, to his life. And the form, the life of Christ, is love; hence to believe is to conform to Christ and to enter into his love. So it is that in the Letter to the Galatians in which he primarily developed his teaching on justification St Paul speaks of faith that works through love (cf. Gal 5: 14).

From poster: Galatians 5: 6, too

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html