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ClemtheCatholic
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Not sure if this is the correct forum, but could anyone please just give me a summing-up in no more than 5 sentences of what the Church teaches on justification?
Thanks!!
Thanks!!
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Matthew8
Guest
We are saved by grace alone, but our response to Gods grace is faith working through love. I am not sure if I explained Justification, Sanctification or Salvation (we have to be clear what we are talking about), but hopefully I helped. This is all explained very well in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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Carlan
Guest
Welcome Clem,Not sure if this is the correct forum, but could anyone please just give me a summing-up in no more than 5 sentences of what the Church teaches on justification?
Thanks!!
A soul has to be clean . We canāt have any attachment to sin at death and bring that into heaven.
. When I die I cannot bring spiritual distortion before God, I have to be rid of any such sin and sinfulness to get in, not merely covered. I have to be washed in the blood of Christ AND PURGED of my own filth. Baptism does that for me and at the same time Justifys me and fills me with sanctifying grace to make me holy as Christ is holy, makes me righteous as Christ is righteous. If after Baptism I fall back into sin mortally, without repenting, I lose all righteousness and cannot enter heaven. Thatās it! Peace, Carlan
In literally five sentences.Not sure if this is the correct forum, but could anyone please just give me a summing-up in no more than 5 sentences of what the Church teaches on justification?
Thanks!!
[Brackets and underlines are mine.]The Council of Trent (On Justification)
CHAPTER III.
Who are justified through Christ.
But, though He died for all, yet do not all receive the benefit of His death, but those only unto whom the merit of His passion is communicated. For as in truth men, if they were not born propagated of the seed of Adam, would not be born unjust [ie not-justified],-seeing that, by that propagation, they contract through him, when they are conceived, injustice as their own,-so, if they were not born again in Christ, they never would be justified; seeing that, in that new birth, there is bestowed upon them, through the merit of His passion, the grace whereby they are made just. For this benefit the apostle exhorts us, evermore to give thanks to the Father, who hath made us worthy to be partakers of the lot of the saints in light, and hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the Kingdom of the Son of his love, in whom we have redemption, and remission of sins.
CHAPTER IV.
A description is introduced of the Justification of the impious, and of the Manner thereof under the law of grace.
By which words, a description of the Justification of the impious [ie unjustified people] is indicated,-as being a translation, from that state wherein man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace, and of the adoption of the sons of God, through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Saviour. And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof, as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
Source: thecounciloftrent.com/ch6.htm
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TheDoctor
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The Catechism gives some more depth and reference:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm
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ClemtheCatholic
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You guys are amazing! Thanks so much!! 
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fhansen
Guest
Man cannot be righteous, cannot be who he was created to be, cannot be just, apart from God. Jesus came to reconcile man with God so man and God may commune, as was always intended, restoring justice to man. Once this justice is restored, once man is justified, he must keep walking in that justice, by remaining in Christ, and His grace will help us, without forcing us, to do that. To the extent that we freely follow Him, responding to His grace, we actually grow in justice. This justice is perfected to the degree that we love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves.
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thistle
Guest
Modern catholic Dictionary:Not sure if this is the correct forum, but could anyone please just give me a summing-up in no more than 5 sentences of what the Church teaches on justification?
Thanks!!
JUSTIFICATION, THEOLOGY OF. The process of a sinner becoming justified or made right with God. As defined by the Council of Trent. āJustification is the change from the condition in which a person is born as a child of the first Adam into a state of grace and adoption among the children of God through the Second Adam, Jesus Christ our Saviorā (Denzinger 1524). On the negative side, justification is a true removal of sin, and not merely having oneās sins ignored or no longer held against the sinner by God. On the positive side it is the supernatural sanctification and renewal of a person who thus becomes holy and pleasing to God and an heir of heaven.
The Catholic Church identifies five elements of justification, which collectively define its full meaning. The primary purpose of justification is the honor of God and of Christ; its secondary purpose is the eternal life of mankind. The main efficient cause or agent is the mercy of God; the main instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is called the āsacrament of faithā to spell out the necessity of faith for salvation. And that which constitutes justification or its essence is the justice of God, ānot by which He is just Himself, but by which He makes us just,ā namely sanctifying grace.
Depending on the sins from which a person is to be delivered, there are different kinds of justification. An infant is justified by baptism and the faith of the one who requests or confers the sacrament. Adults are justified for the first time either by personal faith, sorrow for sin and baptism, or by the perfect love of God, which is at least an implicit baptism of desire. Adults who have sinned gravely after being justified can receive justification by sacramental absolution or perfect contrition for their sins. (Etym. Latin justus, just + facere, to make, do: justificatio.)
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ClemtheCatholic
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Guys, what about Ephesians 2:10? The Protestant I am talking with brings up: Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
How are we to understand this? The last bit is the bit Iām wondering about. God prepared them in advance? What does that mean?
Thanks guys!
How are we to understand this? The last bit is the bit Iām wondering about. God prepared them in advance? What does that mean?
Thanks guys!
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fhansen
Guest
Our righteousness is from God, all a work of grace, the divine Potter molding the clay. āApart from Me you can do nothingā. But we donāt have to be malleable, we arenāt forced to cooperate, i.e. we can reject grace.
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Carlan
Guest
Clem God made us for Himself to love Him and serve Him in this world so as to be happy with Him in the next world ,heaven, forever. However, first we must accept him and not reject the grace necessary that Christ won for us on the cross.Peace, Carlan
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Blackie777
Guest
God has ordained that the functional purpose of the believer is to produce works, as far as the end product is concerned. The believer is first regenerated, then justified, than the process of sanctification where our works are unfurled bringing glory to God. Works function inside the theological context of sanctification, but works have nothing to do with oneās justification that is based exclusively on the grace of God extended because of the shed blood of Jesus on Calvary.
Welcome to the forums!
At your baptism, you are regenerated and justified simultaneously. The merits of the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ are communicated in Justification to the justified man. From there you remain justified until you fall into mortal sin. After confessing your sin in the Sacrament of Penance, you are justified once again.
The Council of Trent
CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.
CANON XI.-If any one saith, that men are justified, either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ, or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, and is inherent in them; or even that the grace, whereby we are justified, is only the favour of God; let him be anathema.
CANON XXIV.-If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.
CANON XXIX.-If any one saith, that he, who has fallen after baptism, is not able by the grace of God to rise again; or, that he is able indeed to recover the justice which he has lost, but by faith alone without the sacrament of Penance, contrary to what the holy Roman and universal Church-instructed by Christ and his Apostles-has hitherto professed, observed, and taught; let him be anathema.
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Blackie777
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I agree that regeneration and justification happen simultaneously, but not through baptism. Baptism doesnāt have the theological faculty of expiation, only the blood of Jesus has that ability, which the waters of baptism symbolize.
So, you are justified, then unjustified, then justified, then unjustified, and on and on it goes. That is the pattern of a shaky theology. So, you have to go through the sacrament of penance to be rejustified. God does not interact with His children through codified sacraments. Relationships are not facilitated via the machinations of rigid rituals and ceremonies. God interacts with us personally, not sacramentally.
When Jesus was teaching Nicodemus about regeneration, the New Birth, He didnāt teach that experience through a sacrament. Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again, then Jesus went on to tell him how that happens. :The wind blows where it listeth, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell from where it comes, and whither it goes: so is every one who is born of the Spirit." (Jn.3:8) IOW, the New Birth is facilitated through the ebb and flow of the Spirit, not through some stiff, cold formalized ritual or ceremony. The believerās relationship to the Lord is facilitated by the Spirit, the ebb and flow or the spontaneity of the Spirit. You canāt codify the Spirit. That would be like trying to put the wind into a code. the wind has no form or structure, it is free and spontaneous by nature. So, is our relationship with the Lord. The codification of Catholic rituals and ceremonies is a fundamental misunderstanding of how spiritual relationships function and work in the trench of every day life.
As far as Trent is concerned it is nothing more than men coming to a consensus on some issues. Their pronouncements are meaningless if they are not in accord with the Council of Heaven found in the Word of God. Then, all these anathematized pronouncements are usurping Godās authority, for He alone anathematizes. It is epitome of arrogance and superiority for men to place themselves in the seat of the Heavenly Judge and anathematize men to hell. This should give one serious pause to soberly think about that obvious transgression.
Just the same,
God Bless
So, you are justified, then unjustified, then justified, then unjustified, and on and on it goes. That is the pattern of a shaky theology. So, you have to go through the sacrament of penance to be rejustified. God does not interact with His children through codified sacraments. Relationships are not facilitated via the machinations of rigid rituals and ceremonies. God interacts with us personally, not sacramentally.
When Jesus was teaching Nicodemus about regeneration, the New Birth, He didnāt teach that experience through a sacrament. Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again, then Jesus went on to tell him how that happens. :The wind blows where it listeth, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell from where it comes, and whither it goes: so is every one who is born of the Spirit." (Jn.3:8) IOW, the New Birth is facilitated through the ebb and flow of the Spirit, not through some stiff, cold formalized ritual or ceremony. The believerās relationship to the Lord is facilitated by the Spirit, the ebb and flow or the spontaneity of the Spirit. You canāt codify the Spirit. That would be like trying to put the wind into a code. the wind has no form or structure, it is free and spontaneous by nature. So, is our relationship with the Lord. The codification of Catholic rituals and ceremonies is a fundamental misunderstanding of how spiritual relationships function and work in the trench of every day life.
As far as Trent is concerned it is nothing more than men coming to a consensus on some issues. Their pronouncements are meaningless if they are not in accord with the Council of Heaven found in the Word of God. Then, all these anathematized pronouncements are usurping Godās authority, for He alone anathematizes. It is epitome of arrogance and superiority for men to place themselves in the seat of the Heavenly Judge and anathematize men to hell. This should give one serious pause to soberly think about that obvious transgression.
Just the same,
God Bless
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Carlan
Guest
Blackie, Catholic spirituality is very deep.I wonāt attempt to respond to all your post at the moment, however, I would like you to continue to visit and see what Catholic Answers apologists have to offer.
According to the truth Christ handed down to His Church through his apostles, we have been given the grace of sanctification by the Holy Spirit through our justification, which Christ paid for us on the cross. Justification is conferred through our Baptism and is a sacrament, not a symbol, Sacraments are given to us as gifts of grace to help us in our sanctification to become holy as Christ is holy which is a life long process for Christians.
Please stay with us to understand what we truly believe. You are most welcome! Peace, Carlan
Scripture and Church history shows that God has always used rituals and ceremonies along with personal interactions. God is who he is. We canāt change God to fit him in with our preconceived notions. The God of 5000 BC has not changed to fit with the 21st century American notions. God does not change.
Protestantism is the epitome of āshaky theologyā. From the time of Martin Luther until now, protestants are constantly changing their beliefs and are at variance with one another (even among those who share the same denomination). āTruth is singular. Its versions are mistruths.ā Catholic doctrine does not change.
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fhansen
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All grace comes from God; itās efficacy in us is confirmed by our responses, beginning with faith.
Sacraments are personal interactions between God and man. By providing formality or structure to the working of His grace in us, the gospel was preserved in such a way that it could be taught and lived out by mainly illiterate people down through the centuries in physical form. Justification, communion, and repentance/confession/reconciliation are essentials of the Christian faith. Sacraments make the need for these essentials knowable and make them available- the gospel in action. The right disposition of the person is also essential; grace doesnāt effect change if weāre only going through the motions.
Justification is a pure work of grace, but one we can reject, one we must accept and cooperate with and participate in. Weāre justified by faith initially, formalized by obedience to Jesusā command to be baptized, but then we donāt simply rest on our laurels; Jesusā burden is light, not non-existent. We must take up our cross and follow. We must invest our talents or lose place in the kingdom, remain in faith- remain in Christ-or be a branch cut off, rocky soil where the seed sprouts but later withers. Godās grace is continuously open to all but He wonāt force us to accept or remain it it any more than He forced Adam to do so. Repentance, reconciliation is always available if we fall, as we struggle with the sin that no only tempts us, but also through which God ultimately desires to test and refine us, bringing a greater good out of the evil that sin entails in us. God is about the business of restoring authentic righteousness to His creation, of not only forgiving sin but also helping us to āgo, and in no moreā.
Baptism, like any sacrament, is simply a physical sign of a spiritual reality. It acknowledges our need for Gods action-His grace-and our re-action, our response to that grace by physically stepping out in faith in obedience to Jesusā command. God provides the means; we comply; we obey Jesus if we love Him. (John 14:15)
Which they are, unlike yourself with your private interpretations.
They werenāt anathematized to hell. They, along with their heresies, weāre shunned, as scripture exhorts us to do.
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Blackie777
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Iām afraid not. You cannot ritualize or codify the motions and movements of the Holy Spirit who is the agent of God in the earth. When you study the history of the church, it began in the upper room, and it began in the spontaneous wind and fire of the Sprit. Read the Book of Acts and see the mighty moving of the Spirit. No one could harness or command or put into a code, a ceremony or a structure the spontaneity of the Spirit. Just as Jesus said, His movements are like the wind, you hear it but all you can see is the effects of where it is moving or has moved.
But man comes along and always wants to capture and repackage the move of God. Religion in general has erred in attempting to put into a definitive code the machinations of the Spirit. You cannot box the wind, neither can you put the restrictions of ritual and ceremony on the wind of the Spirit. The wind was designed to blow freely without form or restrictions of any sort. So, indeed is the moving of the Spirit is similar fashion. The Spirit blew into that upper room, unannounced, but ordered of God just the same. Men began to prophesy, speak in tongues, etc. as the Spirit came upon them and the lifted from them. But God via the Spirit came, he touched, and he transformed lives in that upper room. Them came out of that upper room full of the Spirit and turned their world upside down for the cause of Christ. This is how God moves in and among His people, He comes via the wind and fire of the Spirit, not through some cold, stiff, ritual or ceremony that is boring and repetitive. Not to understand how God interacts with us is to miss the move of God because we are distracted by all the motions and machinations of religion.
Justification is a work of grace to be sure. But it is not one we can ācooperateā with because justification and regeneration āhappenā to us. We are not active participants in justification and regeneration. Think we must cooperate in justification is to theologically not comprehend the nature of justification. You said it is a work of grace, which is true. But since it is grace then work is automatically excluded in that narrow context of justification. Theologically speaking grace and works are mutually exclusive concepts which never meet or merge (Rom.11:6; Eph.2:8-9).
Now when it comes to sanctification, which is subsequent to salvation/justification, then we engage and become active participants. The nature of justification is grace, and the nature of sanctification is works. Through regeneration/justification one is saved (comes into possession of salvation), in sanctification one produces works demonstrating authentic salvation. But the works have nothing to do with the believerās justification/salvation, because that is already established in Christ. In Christ one is saved, in sanctification one walks with Christ. These biblical concepts must be rightly divided as Paul instructed us to do, or else theological confusion will ensue.
That is not what your church teaches about baptism. Your church teaches ābaptismal regenerationā (CCC1213,1257). The two words ābaptism and regenerationā used together are an oxymoron, a contradiction. Once again trying to put into a ceremonial code attempting to restrict and confine the Holy Spiritās spontaneous and unrestricted movements in the hearts of men regenerating them in the New Birth (born again). Catholics are drowning in a sea of ritual and ceremonies that are antithetical to the movements of the Spirit (Jn.3:8).
Wishing you the best just the same.
In Christ,
Blackie
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Carlan
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mdcpensive1
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In Acts it reads that the Holy Spirit manifested Himself in the form of tongues of fire. Christ manifested Himself in leading the chosen people by a pillar of fire, etc.
Covenants were formalized through the parties participating in a meal or the sacrificing of an animalā¦
Christ is our mediator between heaven and earth and so uses that which bridges the gap between the two by a material reality that encompasses a spiritual truth. (Food for thought)
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