Justified by Faith Alone cf. James 2:24

[AugustTherese]

So, it is easy to find the Lutheran view of James 2, and it stays at 123 in the article on Love in the Apology of the Augsburg Confession.

The issue is not works. The issue, for the Lutheran, is the issue of merit attached to works.
I have brought this up on a few occasions on this thread, with little response.
If justification is of grace, freely given, then even if justification comes by faith and works, we cannot claim merit for any growth in grace or justification.
James never claims that our works merit forgiveness of sins or merit grace.

So, again, the Lutheran if he is true to the confessions, can accept that justification is of both faith and works if the Catholic can be true to James by not claiming our works merit forgiveness of sin and grace.

bookofconcord.org/defense_5_love.php

From James 2:24 they cite: Ye see, then, how by works a man is justified, and not by faith alone. Nor is any other passage supposed to be more contrary to our belief. But the reply is easy and plain. If the adversaries do not attach their own opinions concerning the merits of works, the words of James have in them nothing that is of disadvantage. But wherever there is mention of works, the adversaries add falsely their own godless opinions, that by means of good works we merit the remission of sins; that good works are a propitiation and price on account of which God is reconciled to us; that good works overcome the terrors of sin and of death, that good works are accepted in God’s sight on account of their goodness; and that they do not need mercy and Christ as Propitiator. None of all these things came into the mind of James, which the adversaries nevertheless, defend under the pretext of this passage of James.

Him has God proposed as a propitiator through faith in his blood for our sins, and not for our sins only, but also for those of the whole world.

But though He died for all, yet all do not receive the benefit of His death, but those only to whom *** the merit of His passion*** is communicated; because as truly as men would not be born unjust, if they were not born through propagation of the seed of Adam, since by that propagation they contract through him, when they are conceived, injustice as their own, so if they were not born again in Christ, they would never be justified, since in that new birth there is bestowed upon them, through the merit of His passion, the grace by which they are made just.

It is furthermore declared that in adults the beginning of that justification must proceed from the predisposing grace of God through Jesus Christ, that is, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits on their part, they are called; that they who by sin had been cut off from God, may be disposed through His quickening and helping grace to convert themselves to their own justification by freely assenting to and cooperating with that grace; so that, while God touches the heart of man through the illumination of the Holy Ghost, man himself neither does absolutely nothing while receiving that inspiration, since he can also reject it, nor yet is he able by his own free will and without the grace of God to move himself to justice in His sight

The causes of this justification are:
the final cause is the glory of God and of Christ and life everlasting; the efficient cause is the merciful God who washes and sanctifies gratuitously, signing and anointing with the holy Spirit of promise, who is the pledge of our inheritance, the meritorious cause is His most beloved only begotten, our Lord Jesus Christ, who, when we were enemies, for the exceeding charity wherewith he loved us, merited for us justification by His most holy passion on the wood of the cross and made satisfaction for us to God the Father, the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which no man was ever justified finally, the single formal cause is the justice of God, not that by which He Himself is just, but that by which He makes us just, that, namely, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind, and not only are we reputed but we are truly called and are just, receiving justice within us, each one according to his own measure, which the Holy Ghost distributes to everyone as He wills, and according to each one’s disposition and cooperation.

• Council of Trent, Session VI, Decree Concerning Justification

 

[ajcstr]

So, again, the Lutheran if he is true to the confessions, can accept that justification is of both faith and works if the Catholic can be true to James by not claiming our works merit forgiveness of sin and grace.

What is the role of works with respect to sanctification from a protestant point of view?

From a Catholic point of view I can say works NEVER merit forgiveness of sins. Now if you are going to argue that the sacrament of penance is a work, we are back in the circle.

Do works merit additional grace? Not sure, I believe we would say that works increase our sanctification so I guess that would mean additional grace but it could simply be expressed as responding to more grace.

 

[lanman87]

**What is the role of works with respect to sanctification from a protestant point of view?
**
From a Catholic point of view I can say works NEVER merit forgiveness of sins. Now if you are going to argue that the sacrament of penance is a work, we are back in the circle.

Do works merit additional grace? Not sure, I believe we would say that works increase our sanctification so I guess that would mean additional grace but it could simply be expressed as responding to more grace.

This thread has actually got me pondering your question. To a protestant, being born again is not something that happens when you are baptized as an infant or an adult. It is when you are “converted”. It is the moment you are convicted of being sinful by the Holy Spirit and place faith in Christ for salvation and forgiveness of sins. This obviously, involves belief/trust, repentance, acknowledgement of Christ and everything else that goes along with being “a new creation”. However, to a protestant we are saved, now and forever, when we become this new creation in Christ. We (at least I) sum up this change by the word “faith”.

However, we also believe in being sanctified, which to us, means being made more and more like Christ in our thoughts, words and actions. I would go as far to say that the main reason we exist is to become more like Christ and share the Gospel with those who don’t know Christ.

So if we are saved by being changed into a new creation then what is the purpose of sanctification? After much pondering I would say it is three fold. One is because of respect and love of the Heavenly Father, two is God wants to us to be sanctified for our own protection and to give us blessings. During the process of sanctification our faith grows and He blesses us in ways we can’t even imagine. Also, if we are disobedient then we have the earthly consequences or our sin to deal with. Those consequences harm our relationship with God and harm our relationships with others and, in some cases, harm us physically. Third, our sanctification helps grow the Kingdom of God by us having a reputation and witness that draws people to Christ.

In other words, God doesn’t need us to be sanctified to fulfill the requirements of being saved. Jesus fulfilled all those requirements. However, He desires us to be sanctified in order for us to bless us, grow our faith, and grow His kingdom on earth. A sanctified church is a strong vibrant church and worldly church is weak and ineffective.

 

[James248]

This thread has actually got me pondering your question. To a protestant, being born again is not something that happens when you are baptized as an infant or an adult. It is when you are “converted”. It is the moment you are convicted of being sinful by the Holy Spirit and place faith in Christ for salvation and forgiveness of sins. This obviously, involves belief/trust, repentance, acknowledgement of Christ and everything else that goes along with being “a new creation”. However, to a protestant we are saved, now and forever, when we become this new creation in Christ. We (at least I) sum up this change by the word “faith”.

In other words, God doesn’t need us to be sanctified to fulfill the requirements of being saved. Jesus fulfilled all those requirements. However, He desires us to be sanctified in order for us to bless us, grow our faith, and grow His kingdom on earth. A sanctified church is a strong vibrant church and worldly church is weak and ineffective.

Didn’t Jesus say to be born again you need to be born of water and the spirit?

And doesn’t Scripture say that only he who is sinless can ascend the mountain of the Lord?

 

[lanman87]

Didn’t Jesus say to be born again you need to be born of water and the spirit?

Yes, we think that verse has a different meaning than you.

And doesn’t Scripture say that only he who is sinless can ascend the mountain of the Lord?

We believe that our righteousness comes from God and not from ourselves.

 

[mackbrislawn]

I’ll try and answer this from what I was taught as a Southern Baptist. When we are born again we become children of God. We enter into a relationship with God through Jesus then God becomes “Our Father”. Therefore, as His children, and because of our love for Him and the sacrifice He made on our behalf we seek to do His will. We want to be obedient children and grow in our faith and love of God. We understand that being obedient, by fleeing from a sinful lifestyle, sharing our faith, serving those in need and allowing the Holy Spirit to produce the fruits of the spirit in our life not only keeps us from falling under the discipline of Our Father but also protects us from the consequences of sin here on earth. We also understand that by being obedient we are storing up treasures in Heaven. In addition, we have the joy of seeing others be influenced by the Gospel message by our testimony (what we say) and witness (how we live).

In other words, we don’t see obedience as something we have to do be “saved” we see it as something we get to do joyfully because we have been “saved” and continue to be “saved”, by the Grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit indwelling within us.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. And it all makes sense in terms of the “OSAS” theology or way of thinking.

So, my question becomes, what is meant by “grow in faith, and love of God” and what advantage is there in that? One is already saved and assured of heaven, so why do you need more faith? You seem to answer that by saying it keeps us from coming under the discipline of the our Father and protects us from the consequences of sin here on earth.

Okay, how does our Father discipline us in this life? And what are the consequences of sin here on earth? Does God reward us somehow on earth when we live a Christian life? Keep bad things from happening to us here on earth?

“Storing up treasures in heaven” is scriptural. Now, what does it mean? Does it mean a better place in heaven, or perhaps a fuller face to face meeting with God when you get to heaven?

The Catholic view, and for those who believe that even once we become a child of God we can still fall away, living a Christian life then enables us to grow fuller in faith and love which strengthens us from the possibility of falling away. God keeps His promises, but living as a Christian helps us to keep our promises to God.

 

[James248]

Yes, we think that verse has a different meaning than you.

Think about it like this. To go to the plane you have to go on the ticket and go on the plane. Faith is the ticket, baptism is the plane.

We believe that our righteousness comes from God and not from ourselves.

I agree with that: we don’t become holy on our own, but through Him, with Him, and in Him.
Ephesians 1:3-7
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,** who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing** in the heavenly places, 4 just as he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before him in love. He destined us for adoption as his children through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace that he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace that he lavished on us.

If you look at the parts I have bolded, what is the main phrase that occurs? “In Him!!!” That, my friend is the key. In Him we’re righteous; in Him we’re blessed; in HIm we have forgiveness: IN HIM!!! That’s what the gospel is!

 

[lanman87]

So, my question becomes, what is meant by “grow in faith, and love of God” and what advantage is there in that? One is already saved and assured of heaven, so why do you need more faith? You seem to answer that by saying it keeps us from coming under the discipline of the our Father and protects us from the consequences of sin here on earth.

Being a Christian is far more than fire insurance. It is the God of the universe reaching down and loving us and entering into relationship with us. We grow in our faith so we can love him more, serve him better and help build his Kingdom. It is both awesome and humbling to think the God loved us so much that He sent His son for us and allows us to call him Abba which really means Daddy. To me, being a Christian isn’t avoiding hell as much as it is growing closer to the God who loves me more than I could ever imagine.

Okay, how does our Father discipline us in this life? And what are the consequences of sin here on earth? Does God reward us somehow on earth when we live a Christian life? Keep bad things from happening to us here on earth?

I’m not sure other than to say it is very clear that God disciplines His children. Hebrews Chapter 12 makes that very clear. I’ve often heard it said that if you can habitually sin and not come under conviction of the Holy Spirit and the discipline of God then you need to examine your faith to see if it is genuine.

“Storing up treasures in heaven” is scriptural. Now, what does it mean? Does it mean a better place in heaven, or perhaps a fuller face to face meeting with God when you get to heaven?

That is a good question that I don’t think any of us will get the answer to until we are in Glory. But it is clear that somehow by living out our faith and obedience and “works” we store up treasure and rewards in heaven. However, I don’t think our motivation should be the Love of God and the Love of others. Any rewards are secondary reasons why we do what God calls us to do.

 

[lanman87]

I agree with that: we don’t become holy on our own, but through Him, with Him, and in Him.
Ephesians 1:3-7
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,** who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing** in the heavenly places, 4 just as he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before him in love. He destined us for adoption as his children through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace that he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace that he lavished on us.

If you look at the parts I have bolded, what is the main phrase that occurs? “In Him!!!” That, my friend is the key. In Him we’re righteous; in Him we’re blessed; in HIm we have forgiveness: IN HIM!!! That’s what the gospel is!

I agree, but it also Him in us by the indwelling Holy Spirit. We are in Him and He is in us.

The fundamental difference, from what I can tell, is the we protestants believe the we are righteous because of the righteousness of Christ and not any righteousness of our own. We believe in a substitutionary righteousness that comes from being in Christ. Catholics (please correct me if I’m wrong) believe we must obtain righteousness through the sacraments and works.

 

[James248]

I agree, but it also Him in us by the indwelling Holy Spirit. We are in Him and He is in us.

The fundamental difference, from what I can tell, is the we protestants believe the we are righteous because of the righteousness of Christ and not any righteousness of our own. We believe in a substitutionary righteousness that comes from being in Christ. Catholics (please correct me if I’m wrong) believe we must obtain righteousness through the sacraments and works.

Eh. The Sacraments were instituted by Christ and are outward signs of inward grace. Sacraments are how we participate in God’s life, and the Eucharist is the prime avenue for that.

 

[James248]

Eh. The Sacraments were instituted by Christ and are outward signs of inward grace. Sacraments are how we participate in God’s life, and the Eucharist is the prime avenue for that.

Sorry I wasn’t done.

You also mentioned works. I’m not denying the necessity of faith. Faith is a seed planted within us by God, but it must bear fruit. We can’t leave it under a bushel!: With God that seed can become a tree that bears great fruit. We need to persevere in good works throughout our lives with God’s help to perfect our faith so that it may produce fruit. We see this in Abraham’s life. Abraham’s faith worked together with his works, and by them it became perfect. He went from leaving his homeland to a place he didn’t know, to cling to the promise of many descendants even though he was past the normal age, and to sacrifice his son Isaac with the firm belief that God could raise him from death. “Was not Abraham found faithful in the trial? And was it not credited to him as righteousness?”

 

[JonNC]

What is the role of works with respect to sanctification from a protestant point of view?

From a Catholic point of view I can say works NEVER merit forgiveness of sins. Now if you are going to argue that the sacrament of penance is a work, we are back in the circle.

Do works merit additional grace? Not sure, I believe we would say that works increase our sanctification so I guess that would mean additional grace but it could simply be expressed as responding to more grace.

I wouldn’t argue that any Sacrament is a work. Sacraments are a means of grace.

 

[JonNC]

Both is fine. My point is (1) implies synergism, while (2) by itself implies monergism.

That’s not entirely true. yes it is an issue and in my opinion a more controversial issue than this. The issue with James 2:24 from a Lutheran point of view - and I’m not putting words in your mouth, you can tell me if I am off base - to me deals with depravity and synergism. Man’s will is incapable of performing ANY good work to cooperate with God’s grace. So any good works are by Grace through faith alone with no cooperation of the individual.

Man’s total depravity makes it impossible for him to seek God. That is why justification is seen by Lutherans as being by Grace through faith. This had more to do with countering Pelagianism, etc at the time. The Apology of The Augsburg Confession speaks to that issue, as well. But you are correct, in part, Lutherans speak of be at once saint and sinner.

We are capable, however, of rejecting grace.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Please define, ‘merit’.

That’s your job, since you are the Catholic here.

 

[drblank1]

This thread has actually got me pondering your question. To a protestant, being born again is not something that happens when you are baptized as an infant or an adult. It is when you are “converted”. It is the moment you are convicted of being sinful by the Holy Spirit and place faith in Christ for salvation and forgiveness of sins. This obviously, involves belief/trust, repentance, acknowledgement of Christ and everything else that goes along with being “a new creation”. However, to a protestant we are saved, now and forever, when we become this new creation in Christ. We (at least I) sum up this change by the word “faith”.

However, we also believe in being sanctified, which to us, means being made more and more like Christ in our thoughts, words and actions. I would go as far to say that the main reason we exist is to become more like Christ and share the Gospel with those who don’t know Christ.

So if we are saved by being changed into a new creation then what is the purpose of sanctification? After much pondering I would say it is three fold. One is because of respect and love of the Heavenly Father, two is God wants to us to be sanctified for our own protection and to give us blessings. During the process of sanctification our faith grows and He blesses us in ways we can’t even imagine. Also, if we are disobedient then we have the earthly consequences or our sin to deal with. Those consequences harm our relationship with God and harm our relationships with others and, in some cases, harm us physically. Third, our sanctification helps grow the Kingdom of God by us having a reputation and witness that draws people to Christ.

In other words, God doesn’t need us to be sanctified to fulfill the requirements of being saved. Jesus fulfilled all those requirements. However, He desires us to be sanctified in order for us to bless us, grow our faith, and grow His kingdom on earth. A sanctified church is a strong vibrant church and worldly church is weak and ineffective.

Very good and very Biblical.

But you missed a fourth: “To prepare us to live in God’s Kingdom for eternity.” Romans 8:18-30.

 

[lanman87]

Eh. The Sacraments were instituted by Christ and are outward signs of inward grace. Sacraments are how we participate in God’s life, and the Eucharist is the prime avenue for that.

I’m a little confused. An outward sign of an inward grace is a phrase I’ve heard all my life as a Baptist. Specifically that Baptism is an outward sign of an inward grace. That it shows outwardly what God has done inwardly.

However, in my reading about Catholicism I keep seeing the terms merit and vehicle of grace. I’ve come to understand that Catholics belief taking part in the sacraments is more than an outward sign of an inward grace but is a means to actually receive grace.

If so, this is a difference in belief between protestants and Catholics. We don’t believe grace can be merited. We believe that God freely gives grace to his children because of our status as a child and not because we cooperate with God. Because if we have to merit grace then grace is not free. In other words, we don’t receive grace because of what we do but we receive grace because of who we are in Christ.

We cooperate with God, not to receive additional favor, but because He has transformed us and changed us and our love and gratitude and adoration of Him overflows from us because of His great Love for us. Because we are His children then we want what He wants, we want to please Him far more than we want to please our earthly father. We want to draw closer to Him because there is joy and peace in His presence.

What a joy it is to be a Child of the King!

 

[PRmerger]

I’m a little confused. An outward sign of an inward grace is a phrase I’ve heard all my life as a Baptist. Specifically that Baptism is an outward sign of an inward grace. That it shows outwardly what God has done inwardly.

But there is no Bible verse to substantiate this belief.

However, in my reading about Catholicism I keep seeing the terms merit and vehicle of grace. I’ve come to understand that Catholics belief taking part in the sacraments is more than an outward sign of an inward grace but is a means to actually receive grace.

Yes.

If so, this is a difference in belief between protestants and Catholics.

Not all Protestants agree with this.

Protestantism is a behemoth of different beliefs, so to say “Protestants believe this about grace” is to be over-reaching.

We don’t believe grace can be merited.

Neither do Catholics.

Proof: what “merit” has the 3 month old baby achieved when she is baptized?

We believe that God freely gives grace to his children because of our status as a child and not because we cooperate with God. Because if we have to merit grace then grace is not free.

God freely pours down his grace on an atheist, too?

Or does he have to do something in order to receive this? Namely, cooperate with God.

 

[AugustTherese]

That’s your job, since you are the Catholic here.

Not when you’re quoting the AC. Reverse onus :whacky:

 

[James248]

But there is no Bible verse to substantiate this belief.

Wait, what?

 

[lanman87]

Wait, what?

Isn’t “an outward sign of an inward grace” a quote attributed to St. Augustine?