JW stopped by my house......

[dj_dave]

[SIGN]dj dave;

What Jesus Preached
10 What did Jesus preach? If you were to seek the answer by examining the teachings of many churches that claim to represent him, you might conclude that he proclaimed some kind of social gospel. Or perhaps you would get the impression that he advocated political reform or that he stressed personal salvation above all else. However, as previously noted, Jesus said plainly: “I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God.” Just what did that involve?
Cont.[/SIGN]

Remember, Jesus was present in heaven when Satan first challenged the rightness of Jehovah’s sovereignty. How it must have pained Jesus to see his righteous Father slandered and accused of being an unjust Ruler who withholds good from His creatures! How hurt God’s Son must have been when Adam and Eve, the future parents of humankind, gave heed to Satan’s slander! The Son saw that the human family was infected with sin and death as a result of that rebellion. (Romans 5:12) How thrilled he must have been, though, to learn that his Father would one day set matters straight!

12 Above all else, what needed to be set straight? Jehovah’s holy name needed to be sanctified, cleared of every trace of reproach heaped upon it by Satan and all who have sided with him. The rightfulness of Jehovah’s sovereignty, his way of ruling, needed to be vindicated. Better than any other man, Jesus understood these vital issues. In the model prayer, he taught his followers to ask first for his Father’s name to be sanctified, next for his Father’s Kingdom to come, and then for God’s will to be done on earth. (Matthew 6:9, 10) God’s Kingdom, with Christ Jesus as its Ruler, will soon rid the earth of Satan’s corrupt system and confirm Jehovah’s righteous rulership for all time.—Daniel 2:44.

13 That Kingdom was the theme of Jesus’ ministry. All his words and all his actions helped to clarify what that Kingdom is and how it will serve Jehovah’s purpose. Jesus allowed nothing to sidetrack him from his mission to preach the good news of God’s Kingdom. In his day, there were pressing social issues, countless injustices, yet his focus was on his message and his work. Did maintaining such a focus mean that Jesus was narrow in his outlook, dull and repetitive in his approach? Far from it!

14 As we will see throughout this section, Jesus made his teaching both interesting and colorful. He appealed to people’s hearts. We might be reminded of wise King Solomon, who sought delightful words, correct words of truth, to convey the thoughts that Jehovah inspired him to write down. (Ecclesiastes 12:10) Jehovah gave that imperfect man “broadness of heart,” enabling him to speak about many things, from birds to fish to trees to beasts. People came from far away to hear Solomon speak. (1 Kings 4:29-34) Yet, Jesus was “something more than Solomon.” (Matthew 12:42) He was far wiser, with far more “broadness of heart.” When teaching people, Jesus drew on his superior knowledge of God’s Word as well as of birds, animals, fish, agriculture, weather, current events, history, and social conditions. At the same time, Jesus never showed off his knowledge in order to impress others. He kept his message simple and clear. No wonder people delighted to hear him speak!—Mark 12:37; Luke 19:48.

15 Christians today try to follow Jesus’ lead. We do not have his immense wisdom and knowledge, but all of us do have a measure of knowledge and experience from which to draw when we share with others the truths of God’s Word. Parents, for instance, may draw from their experience in raising children to illustrate Jehovah’s love for His children. Others may draw examples or illustrations from secular work, school, or their knowledge of people and current events. At the same time, we are careful not to let anything divert attention from our message—the good news of God’s Kingdom.—1 Timothy 4:16.

If you want to know more of this answer–Just ask any Witness for a copy of “Come Be My Follower”…I hope this has given you some incite as to how we feel about your question.

 

[dj_dave]

[SIGN]adelore;3. If people in the New Testament all had to be baptizied by Imersion, then how did they do this if they lived in the Dessert?[/SIGN]

Originally, Christian baptism was practiced by total immersion. The Bible account of the Ethiopian official baptized by Philip helps us to appreciate that fact. After learning of the identity of the Christ, the official, seeing a body of water, said: “What hinders my being immersed?” (Acts 8:26-39, The Emphatic Diaglott) Here the Greek root for “immersed” is ba•pti′zo—meaning “to plunge,” “to immerse”—from which the English word “baptize” is derived. This refers to complete immersion. The fact that baptism is likened to burial emphasizes this point. (Romans 6:4; Colossians 2:12) Interestingly, several French translators of the Bible (for example, Chouraqui and Pernot) call John the Baptizer John the Immerser.—See the footnote for Matthew 3:1 in the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures—With References.

In the very first centuries of Christianity, total immersion was performed wherever there was enough water—in rivers, in the sea, or in private baths. As the number of converts grew, however, baptisteries were constructed in many places in the Roman world, from Dalmatia to Palestine and from Greece to Egypt. One of the oldest baptisteries yet excavated is in Syria, on the shores of the Euphrates River, and dates from about 230 C.E.

When the “Christian” faith became a recognized religion in the Roman Empire in the fourth century C.E., millions of people became “Christians” and had to be baptized. So baptisteries built for that purpose were openly established everywhere. By the sixth century, in Rome alone some 25 baptisteries had been built, including one at the basilica of St. John Lateran. In Gaul every diocese likely had its own baptistery. These numbered up to 150, according to one source. There were probably hundreds more in the countryside, located near small churches, tombs, or monasteries.
Baptisteries were often circular or polygonal monuments, either built as a special and separate edifice or connected to an existing church. Excavations show that these buildings were small (generally less than 2,000 square feet [200 sq m]) but beautifully adorned with colonnades, marble, mosaics, and frescoes, sometimes representing Bible scenes. Some baptisteries, such as the one in Mariana, Corsica, even had an elegant baldachin, or canopy, above the pool. The name baptistery was also applied to the pool itself, which could be square, round, hexagonal, oblong, cruciform, or octagonal. As shown by their width and depth, early baptisteries were evidently designed for adult baptism. They were generally large enough to allow at least two people to fit in them. In Lyon, east central France, for example, the pool measured ten feet [3.25 m] in width. Many pools had steps—usually seven of them—leading down into the water.

The water supply was of course a major concern for designers. Many baptisteries were built near a natural spring or in the ruins of thermal baths, such as the one in Nice, southern France. Water was often channeled in and out of the pools through pipes. In other cases rainwater was transported by hand from a nearby cistern.

The St. John Baptistery of Poitiers, in western France, built about 350 C.E., is a good illustration of what a fourth-century “Christian” baptistery looked like. Inside a rectangular room, surrounded by several annexes, was a large octagonal pool with three steps. The pool is four and a half feet [1.41 m] deep and seven feet [2.15 m] wide at its broadest point. It was connected to an aqueduct bringing water to the city from a nearby spring.

Was baptism by total immersion practiced in such baptisteries? Some Catholic historians answer no, claiming that partial baptism by sprinkling (pouring water onto the head) was mentioned as a possible arrangement early in the history of the Catholic Church. They also observe that many pools were no more than three feet [1 m] deep and were thus not deep enough for an adult to be submerged. A Catholic encyclopedia says that in Poitiers “the celebrant [priest] could put his feet on the third step without getting them wet.”

However, even late artistic depictions of baptism present total immersion as the norm, the candidate being represented with water up to his chest or even up to his neck before baptism. (See pictures above.) Was total immersion possible even if the water level only reached the waist of a medium-size adult? A reference work suggests that the drainage system could have been temporarily stopped up until the kneeling or crouching baptism candidate could be immersed. Pierre Jounel, a professor of Catholic liturgy in Paris, comments: The candidate “stood up to his waist in water. By putting a hand on his head, the priest or the deacon made him bow in the water so as to be entirely immersed.”

 

[dj_dave]

[SIGN]Adelore;

1. The Bible says that “whole households” were baptized. Now a whole household can mean anyone from a baby, children, adults and even servents.

Again this is not to cause a debate.

• Just a footnote. I’ve been up for almost 24 hrs working…so words could be spelled wrong…the brain and the fingers might not be moving well together…[/SIGN]

Adelore, we believe Christian baptism required an understanding of God’s Word and an intelligent decision to present oneself to do the revealed will of God. This was evident when, at Pentecost, 33*C.E., the Jews and proselytes there assembled, who already had a knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures, heard Peter speak about Jesus the Messiah, with the result that 3,000 “embraced his word heartily” and “were baptized.” (Ac 2:41; 3:19–4:4; 10:34-38) Those in Samaria first believed Philip’s preaching of the good news, and then they were baptized. (Ac 8:12) The Ethiopian eunuch, a devout Jewish proselyte who, as such, also had knowledge of Jehovah and the Hebrew Scriptures, heard first the explanation of the fulfillment of these scriptures in Christ, accepted it, and then wanted to be baptized. (Ac 8:34-36) Peter explained to Cornelius that “the man that fears [God] and works righteousness is acceptable” (Ac 10:35) and that everyone putting faith in Jesus Christ gets forgiveness of sins through his name. (Ac 10:43; 11:18) All of this is in harmony with Jesus’ command to “make disciples . teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” Those who accept the teaching and who become disciples properly get baptized.—Mt 28:19, 20; Ac 1:8.

YOU are referring to such as the households of Cornelius, Lydia, the Philippian jailer, Crispus, and Stephanas. (Ac 10:48; 11:14; 16:15, 32-34; 18:8; 1Co 1:16) you believe that this implies that small babies in those families were also baptized. But, in the case of Cornelius, those who were baptized were those who had heard the word and received the holy spirit, and they spoke in tongues and glorified God; these things could not apply to infants. (Ac 10:44-46) Lydia was “a worshiper of God, . . . and Jehovah opened her heart wide to pay attention to the things being spoken by Paul.” (Ac 16:14)

The Philippian jailer had to “believe on the Lord Jesus,” and this implies that the others in his family also had to believe in order to be baptized. (Ac 16:31-34) “Crispus the presiding officer of the synagogue became a believer in the Lord, and so did all his household.” (Ac 18:8) All of this demonstrates that associated with baptism were such things as hearing, believing, and glorifying God, things infants cannot do.

At Samaria when they heard and believed “the good news of the kingdom of God and of the name of Jesus Christ, they proceeded to be baptized.” Here the Scriptural record specifies that the ones baptized were, not infants, but “men and women.”—Ac 8:12.

ALSO:
At times the term “household” in the Bible obviously excludes infants. For example, Titus 1:11 speaks of apostates “subverting entire households.”—**

(1 Samuel 1:21-22) 21 In time the man El·ka′nah went up with all his household to sacrifice to Jehovah the yearly sacrifice and his vow offering. 22*As for Han′nah, she did not go up, for she had said to her husband: “As soon as the boy is weaned, I must bring him, and he must appear before Jehovah and dwell there to time indefinite.”

Gotta run, Thank you for all your research on the 7 books too. From me to you. Proverbs 9:9 and visa versa.**

 

[Bob4BVM]

Bob: the seven books were orignally in the Tanakh, but later removed. They were also part of the Torah.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

That’s what i always though too Javl, but i don’t know,
Dave says they were added by the RCC at the Council of Trent.
He really seems to know alot about many of these things…

 

[Bob4BVM]

adelore;6006123:

dj dave,
[SIGN]
Ok, I’m ready. But while your at it, could you please comment on the fact that the names of the NWT translators are kept from people, along with their “education background”. Do you really have that kind of “Trust”

when you don’t even know if it was two or possible three people who did this? And what if their education background isn’t even up to par? True the Reason of the Scriptures says that the NWT will stand on it’s own merit. What does that mean? [/SIGN]

Quickly, for the same reason that no one knows the photographers, incredible artists writers, printers or anyone else that puts out the 25 million watchtowers a week in 257 languages.
They do not take credit for any of their work.

“It is the truth rather than its servant that should be honored and proclaimed,”Pastor Taze Russell wrote in 1900, adding: “There is too much disposition to credit truth to the preacher, forgetful that all truth is of God, who uses one or another servant in its proclamation as it may please him.” This is the principal reason why writers and translators of Watch Tower publications, as well as members of the New World Bible Translation Committee, choose to remain anonymous.

Cont.
Thanks Dave,
So that is why there are no by-lines in any of the WT stories ???

Sorry Dave, but I have some difficulty with that—it cleanly eliminates accountability and opportunity for rebuttal. There have been many times I wanted to discuss a point in one of the WT articles with the author, but alas… no one took responsibility for the work !
That is the primary reason I no longer read the articles.

The WT “authors” are no more God-inspired that the NWT “translators”. So don’t hide behind that thin mask. BTW, if the NWT was an honest, true translation, I’d give your argument some credence. But since it is more of a re-write to fit your beliefs, the “translators” need to stand up and be accountable for the abomination of calling their work a ‘bible’, when it denies Christ as GOD, among other travesties.

 

[Bob4BVM]

adelore;6006123:

dj dave,
[SIGN]
-----------------------Adelore WROTE----------------------
Ok, I’m ready. But while your at it, could you please comment on the fact that the names of the NWT translators are kept from people, along with their “education background”. Do you really have that kind of “Trust”

when you don’t even know if it was two or possible three people who did this? And what if their education background isn’t even up to par? True the Reason of the Scriptures says that the NWT will stand on it’s own merit. What does that mean? [/SIGN]

----------------------djdave REPLIED------------------------------
Quickly, for the same reason that no one knows the photographers, incredible artists writers, printers or anyone else that puts out the 25 million watchtowers a week in 257 languages.
They do not take credit for any of their work.
…Russell wrote in 1900, adding: “There is too much disposition to credit truth to the preacher, forgetful that all truth is of God, who uses one or another servant in its proclamation as it may please him.” This is the principal reason why writers and translators of Watch Tower publications, as well as members of the New World Bible Translation Committee, choose to remain anonymous.

Words can have more than one meaning.
Phrases can often be translated more than one way.
More often than not, you’ll find that at many other translations agree with the New World Translation.
Don’t be hasty to condemn the New World Translation as incorrect, or to impute bad motives to its translators. Look into it. Get out dictionaries, check other translations, ask people who speak the Bible languages. Have an open mind. You may not agree in all cases with the NWT rendering. But at least you’ll understand why the translation choice
No translator, no matter how accomplished or well versed in both the source and target languages, can do without dictionaries and reference literature. Soon I will invite Bob to list a few (at a time) scriptures where he feels we have mistranslated.

Cont.

Not to rush you Dave, but…
If I did not believe you to be sincere in your beliefs, I’d accuse you of deception in what you say above. I believe you truly believe what you do, which is just as hard for me to see; …one who is so badly deceived.

In the context of what you stated above, I can only offer the facts. For those who are still wondering who are the NWT ‘translators’ were, …and what were their ‘qualifications’ … …and just what is so ‘wrong’ with the NWT, lets start here-----:

The New World Translation (NWT), the JWs’ own Bible version, was created between 1950-61 in several parts, beginning with New Testament (NT). The translation was made by an “anonymous” committee, which transliterated and altered passages that were problematic for earlier JWs. Nathan Knorr, Fred Franz, Albert Schroeder, George Gangas, and Milton Henschel were later identified as the men that created the text, which is used by no other sect. Franz studied non-biblical Greek for two years, and taught himself Hebrew. The rest had no formal training in any biblical language. The text of the NWT is more of a transliteration to fit theological presumptions than it is a true translation. This can be seen in key verses that the WTS changed in order to fit its doctrines.

To undermine the divinity of Christ in John 1:1, the NWT reads, " . . . the word was a god." Non-JW Greek scholars call this “a shocking mistranslation,” “incorrect,” “monstrous,” and “evidence of abysmal ignorance of the basic tenets of Greek grammar.” Furthermore, Col. 1:15-17 has been changed to “… by means of him all [other] things were created.” If the text were left as the original Greek reads, it would clearly state that Jesus created all things. However, the WTS cannot afford to say that anyone but Jehovah created all things, so it inserted the word “other” four times into the text.

The 1950, 1961, and 1970 editions of the NWT said that Jesus was to be worshipped (Heb. 1:6), but the WTS changed the NWT so that later editions would support its doctrines. The translators now decided to render the Greek word for “worship” (proskuneo) as “do obeisance” every time it is applied to Jesus, but as “worship” when modifying Jehovah. If the translators were consistent, then Jesus would be given the worship due to God in Matthew. 14:33, 28:9, 28:17, Luke 24:52, John 9:38, and Hebrews 1:6.

At the time of the Last Supper, there were over three dozen Aramaic words to say “this means,” “represents,” or “signifies,” but Jesus used none of them in his statement, “This is my body.” Since the WTS denies the Catholic teaching on the Eucharist, they have taken the liberty to change our Lord’s words to “This means my body” in Matthew 26:26.

The NWT also translates the Greek word kurios (“Lord”) as “Jehovah” dozens of times in the NT, despite the fact that the word “Jehovah” is never used by any NT author. It should also be asked why the NWT does not translate kurios as “Jehovah” in Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 12:3, Philippians 2:11, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, and Revelation 22:21. If it did translate kyrios consistently, then Jesus would be Jehovah!

 

[Javl]

That’s what i always though too Javl, but i don’t know,
Dave says they were added by the RCC at the Council of Trent.
He really seems to know alot about many of these things…

Again, no. The Tanakh is the official Jewish Bible. The Torah also contains the law(s). The 7 books were not formalized in the Tanakh and were therefore removed, but remained in the Torah. The books were also used by the Church before the Council met and were then formalized by the Council.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

Bob4BVM:

I would also like to add that “The Emphatic Diaglott” was used for the translation of the Greek. This “Diaglott” has been recognized by Greek scholars as a travesty of Greek grammar and has been rejected as an aid or reference of any kind in translations. I should also mention that the original Greek used in the manuscripts was Koine which is quite different from modern Greek. Therefore translating Koine as modern Greek also would lead to many grammatical errors.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[cides23]

dj dave;6008881:

Thanks Dave,
So that is why there are no by-lines in any of the WT stories ???

Sorry Dave, but I have some difficulty with that—it cleanly eliminates accountability and opportunity for rebuttal. There have been many times I wanted to discuss a point in one of the WT articles with the author, but alas… no one took responsibility for the work !
That is the primary reason I no longer read the articles.

The WT “authors” are no more God-inspired that the NWT “translators”. So don’t hide behind that thin mask. BTW, if the NWT was an honest, true translation, I’d give your argument some credence. But since it is more of a re-write to fit your beliefs, the “translators” need to stand up and be accountable for the abomination of calling their work a ‘bible’, when it denies Christ as GOD, among other travesties.

you have to kind of chuckle at JW’s altaring of the passages to fit their theology… when ever Jesus affirmed a teaching by saying Amen, Amen i say to you,] comma … he then follows w/his teaching this is consistent in the NWT until at the Cross when the good thief asked CHrist to remember him as the NWT now reads Amen, AMen i say to you today,] see how the NWT added the comma after today? LOL is should have been place before the word today beecause Jesus is saying to the good thief TODAY you will be with me in Paradise. But wait he can’t be w’him in paradise on that day cause he’s not one of the 144,000 plus paradise is here on earth…
Also in Revelation 22:2 true bibles read TREE OF LIFE, reflecting back to the Tree of Life in Genesis but the NWT reads [TREES] PLURAL…
Also Paul when he desires to be away from his BODy and be w’Christ heck we all desire to be w’Christ in Heaven like Paul that is our desire but again this goes against the JW’s so now that Passages reads different…
COincidence and weird how when the traditional Christian teaching is evident in scripture the NWT reads something totally different… poor all Christians up to 1870 something or 1880 something when Charles Russel started this orgainzation all those Christians prior got it all wrong… =) Like i read in the Catechism we must be prudent and patient w’those who reject the truth… and pray for them… St Dominic prayed hard for the heretic teachings of that time and over came them… and all heresies must be combatted through prayer, so i guess we can offer them up along w’the SDA, Mormons, Iglesia ni Cristo at the Mass for their conversion and to come to know the truth of Jesus!

 

[Bob4BVM]

Again, no. The Tanakh is the official Jewish Bible. The Torah also contains the law(s). The 7 books were not formalized in the Tanakh and were therefore removed, but remained in the Torah. The books were also used by the Church before the Council met and were then formalized by the Council.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Yes, yes, I know !
Was just having some fun
I love it when people say that the RCC added the seven books at the Council of Trent…
Talk about ignorance of history !

 

[Bob4BVM]

Bob4BVM:

I would also like to add that “The Emphatic Diaglott” was used for the translation of the Greek. This “Diaglott” has been recognized by Greek scholars as a travesty of Greek grammar and has been rejected as an aid or reference of any kind in translations. I should also mention that the original Greek used in the manuscripts was Koine which is quite different from modern Greek. Therefore translating Koine as modern Greek also would lead to many grammatical errors.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Very interesting…
But of course since the NWT ‘translators’ were all experts, JWs do not have to be concerned about grammatical errors… ?
(See my post # 364 )

 

[Trunicate09]

Glad you stuck to your guns. Since you were able to communicate, now you know more where they stand. I believe the Jehovah’s Witnesses use a different Bible than the Catholics would use, but I don’t think they use the KJV, but another Bible version altogether which would help try to support their views. Not sure, however.

If it was me talking with that Jehovah’s Witness, she wouldn’t have gotten a foot passed the door. I don’t need their religion, I’m very happen without any religion thank you is what I would say if they came to my door.

 

[adelore]

I truely believe that dj dave, is giving this his best shot, so to speak. However, I do believe although he has very good intentions, he needs to “dig deeper” back into Bible History. Very Deep back into Bible History.

I would like to share a thought here:

If a person needs surgery are you going to go see a person who works out of the back alley, claiming to be a Doctor, but has no credentials? Or better yet who wants to do the surgery yet be a “no-name” Doctor?

If you need a Prescribtion filled…don’t you want to know that the person filling the Prescribtion is quailified? Or would it be ok, just to let anyone fill that Prescribtion, even though they have no knowledge of what Drugs are what.

The same thing should apply to the Bible dj dave. If you really “Research” the history and the “Facts” you will find the NWT comes up short.

A JW friend of mine once told me, “Do your research on your own religion.” She also said, "No one, if they know their religion is Truth, should be afraid to study someone elses religion.) So we both set out to do just that…and what do you think happened? (hint: I didn’t become a JW, so what do you think happened to her?)

 

[Javl]

Glad you stuck to your guns. Since you were able to communicate, now you know more where they stand. I believe the Jehovah’s Witnesses use a different Bible than the Catholics would use, but I don’t think they use the KJV, but another Bible version altogether which would help try to support their views. Not sure, however.

If it was me talking with that Jehovah’s Witness, she wouldn’t have gotten a foot passed the door. I don’t need their religion, I’m very happen without any religion thank you is what I would say if they came to my door.

Yes, they use a Bible different than what we Christians use. They have rewitten their bible to support their tenets and doctrines. They have made a travesty of the Word of God. No one accepts their version of the Bible.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Yerusalyim]

Bob: the seven books were orignally in the Tanakh, but later removed. They were also part of the Torah.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Point of order. The Torah is only the first five books of the bible, the ones which contain the 613 Commandments. The Tanakh is the collection of books, including Torah, the Writings and the Prophets.

The JWs to, indeed, have their own translation of the bible known as the New World Translation. It was translated by a committee of five men who had no formal language training.

Argument or discussion with a JW is difficult at best…remember, most of them go to the “Theocratic Ministry School” which is one of their meetings in which they actually learn to use their proof texts to prove their point.

Every argument that DJ and RE have made are ones I’ve heard a million times over by the various JWs I’ve been associated with. I managed to get three people out of the Organization.

1914…where did that date come from JWs? Before you answer…remember that Russell called the Pyramid a scripture in stone…his tombstone is a pyramid. The date came from measuring the ascending passage. Here are his own words:

“So, then, if we measure backward down the “First Ascending Passage” to its junction with the “Entrance Passage,” we shall have a fixed date to mark upon the downward passage. This measure is 1542 inches, and indicates the year BC 1542, as the date at that point. Then measuring down the “Entrance Passage” from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the “Pit,” representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years from the above date, BC 1542. This calculation shows AD. 1915 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years BC plus 1915 years AD. equals 3457 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation – no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this “Witness” fully corroborates the’ Bible testimony on this subject…” (Charles Taze Russell, Thy Kingdom Come, Studies In The Scriptures, vol. 3, 1910 edition).

Your founder was pretty much a pyramid worshipper…the ORIGINAL date he came up with was 1874…published such in the first edition of Studies in the Scriptures"

 

[Javl]

Point of order. The Torah is only the first five books of the bible, the ones which contain the 613 Commandments. The Tanakh is the collection of books, including Torah, the Writings and the Prophets.

The JWs to, indeed, have their own translation of the bible known as the New World Translation. It was translated by a committee of five men who had no formal language training.

Argument or discussion with a JW is difficult at best…remember, most of them go to the “Theocratic Ministry School” which is one of their meetings in which they actually learn to use their proof texts to prove their point.

Every argument that DJ and RE have made are ones I’ve heard a million times over by the various JWs I’ve been associated with. I managed to get three people out of the Organization.

1914…where did that date come from JWs? Before you answer…remember that Russell called the Pyramid a scripture in stone…his tombstone is a pyramid. The date came from measuring the ascending passage. Here are his own words:

Your founder was pretty much a pyramid worshipper…the ORIGINAL date he came up with was 1874…published such in the first edition of Studies in the Scriptures"

I will not agrue the point with you about the Torah and the Tanakh on this thread, so you can have the “win”. As far as “Pastor” Russell goes, for his Studies in Scripture ( paraphrasing ) he says the even if one has studied the Bible thoroughly for two years that one would never understand the Bible unless that one had his Studies in Scripture for referece and to guide him/her. So, according to that statement, only JWs actually know the Scriptures and understand them.

I should also point out that I have “studied” for over a year with the JWs and have a pretty decent understanding of them. I have also been witnessing to them for about 30+ years. ( I am considered anathema to them. When they come to this area they all avoid my house. ) Whether or not I have made head way I don’t know, and I won’t take credit . I just know that I’ve tried to plant the seed. If it has taken, then the Holy Spirit will take care of the rest.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Ceil-1]

The carelessness of people putting the fate of their eternal souls in the hands of inept strangers just because they are told to. Wow.

 

[dj_dave]

I truely believe that dj dave, is giving this his best shot, so to speak. However, I do believe although he has very good intentions, he needs to “dig deeper” back into Bible History. Very Deep back into Bible History.

I would like to share a thought here:

If a person needs surgery are you going to go see a person who works out of the back alley, claiming to be a Doctor, but has no credentials? Or better yet who wants to do the surgery yet be a “no-name” Doctor?

If you need a Prescribtion filled…don’t you want to know that the person filling the Prescribtion is quailified? Or would it be ok, just to let anyone fill that Prescribtion, even though they have no knowledge of what Drugs are what.

The same thing should apply to the Bible dj dave. If you really “Research” the history and the “Facts” you will find the NWT comes up short.

A JW friend of mine once told me, “Do your research on your own religion.” She also said, "No one, if they know their religion is Truth, should be afraid to study someone elses religion.) So we both set out to do just that…and what do you think happened? (hint: I didn’t become a JW, so what do you think happened to her?)

Recall Paul’s words…1 cor 3:1-6

If you wanted to have a dog trained would you look for the trainer with the most Certificates on the wall?..or would you look at one of the dogs and see if it has been trained well.
The proof of the superiority of the training is found in the actions of the dogs…not the Certificates on the wall.
The proof of the superiority of the training of Jehovah’s Witnesses is found in the actions of the the Witnessses themselves. Even your Mother Angelica stated once :“If I had just 10 Catholic Jehovah’s Witnesses, I could change the world”

It is interesting that if one of Jehovah’s Witnesses gets in trouble on the news for some crime–they never refrain from saying the person is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses…why? Some say because it is so unexpected!

regarding many of the accusations on this forum…Please see

web.archive.org/web/20031220035352/http:/hector3000.future.easyspace.com
scripturaltruths.com/way,
web.archive.org/web/20031204162016/mysite.freeserve.com/newworldtranslation/pageindex.htm
primitivechristians.com/Bible-Files/colwell.htm

Then, , you can find out about the NWT and why we word things the way we do.

By the way, I think there are some X witnesses on this site, or some that have been ‘drenched’ with apostate ideas from X Witnesses.

Compare (Matthew 24:48-51) . . .“But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ (BTW the only way someone could say "my master is delaying–is if there was an expected time of arrival) 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.

Maybe they are some who left in 1975 (users.picknowl.com.au/~hepburn/prophecy.htm) when Armageddon didn’t come when they though it should and are now “beating their fellow slaves” with books, books, and more books! I actually think your “Catholic Answers” is possibly a cleverly designed way of selling books

that’s all for now, please see the links… unless you are afraid to"dig deeper" back into Bible History

 

[Javl]

Dave:

Have you ever tried to dig deeper into the Bible and Church history on your own instead of what the WBTS tells you to do? Frederick Franz, who I understand had served as president ( he was also one of the translators of the NWT ) of the WTBS, did and when he found the real truth he left the WTBS on his own. He was not kicked out as the WTBS tells you. Many of the ex-Witnesses left the WBTS when they studied on their own. Of course the WBTS will say they were disfellowshipped because of infractions ( they have to cover themselves in some way or else there would be mass defections ). Try it Dave, a whole new world of Jesus is waiting for you. I pray that you do.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[cides23]

Recall Paul’s words…1 cor 3:1-6

If you wanted to have a dog trained would you look for the trainer with the most Certificates on the wall?..or would you look at one of the dogs and see if it has been trained well.
The proof of the superiority of the training is found in the actions of the dogs…not the Certificates on the wall.
The proof of the superiority of the training of Jehovah’s Witnesses is found in the actions of the the Witnessses themselves. Even your Mother Angelica stated once :“If I had just 10 Catholic Jehovah’s Witnesses, I could change the world”

It is interesting that if one of Jehovah’s Witnesses gets in trouble on the news for some crime–they never refrain from saying the person is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses…why? Some say because it is so unexpected!

regarding many of the accusations on this forum…Please see

web.archive.org/web/20031220035352/http:/hector3000.future.easyspace.com
scripturaltruths.com/way,
web.archive.org/web/20031204162016/mysite.freeserve.com/newworldtranslation/pageindex.htm
primitivechristians.com/Bible-Files/colwell.htm

Then, , you can find out about the NWT and why we word things the way we do.

By the way, I think there are some X witnesses on this site, or some that have been ‘drenched’ with apostate ideas from X Witnesses.

Compare (Matthew 24:48-51) . . .“But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ (BTW the only way someone could say "my master is delaying–is if there was an expected time of arrival) 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.

Maybe they are some who left in 1975 (users.picknowl.com.au/~hepburn/prophecy.htm) when Armageddon didn’t come when they though it should and are now “beating their fellow slaves” with books, books, and more books! I actually think your “Catholic Answers” is possibly a cleverly designed way of selling books

that’s all for now, please see the links… unless you are afraid to"dig deeper" back into Bible History

WEBSITES proves nothing… one is from a supposed bible theologian and one is practically a JW website or well looks like if that person is a JW… your point for these websites prove nothing… how many people come and claim they have the knowledge of this and that and they claim they are right… the Seven Days Adventist that are on this site are like you… they through out scripture sounding like a bible scholar quoting so called theologians or experts of scripture but we’ve have men like that in the past and will always have men like that till the end of times… it proves nothing… to get to the proof of the truth one must study Christian history… the truth even before Constantine before Arian came and practically took most of the church to follow his teaching before all that St Justin Martyr and men before him and after him taught what is taught still that Jesus is YWHW not the Father but the Son and that the HOly Spirit too is GOD… hence a Trinity to better explain… you can through out all these things heck, eveyone does that to try to support their belief… doesn’t make it the truth…
no threat to dig deep into bible history… for a Catholic would feel comfortable to dig deep why heck we see the good and the bad in our history… what triumph is that GOD always raises up holy Men and women to purify his Church… a humble devote Catholic would rejoice to dig deep in bible history!!! for it was the Church that the HOly Spirit guided to put the WOrd together… =) no matter what one may say truth is truth no matter how one tries to distort it like the JW and others!!! again we pray for your heart for one day so it will be open to the truth…
Mother Angelica mean not that ur teaching is truth is that for more Catholics would have the courage to share the truth like the JW share the false… =) i’ve seen that episode in ETWN…