JW stopped by my house......

[yellowbird]

 

[dj_dave]

i’m glad you brought that up. a deeper examination of this prophecy, particularly of Matthew 24, points to quite a different explanation. This illustrates how the light shines “more and more unto the perfect day.” (Proverbs 4:18, American Standard Version) Let us consider why a new, or changed, explanation is appropriate.
. remember we are imperfect people trying to do a perfect work. Mt 24:15

Also, remember we belive that at Mt 24:3 the word is not “coming” but “Presence”
web.archive.org/web/20040204191946/mysite.freeserve.com/newworldtranslation/pageindex.htm

web.archive.org/web/20040219064512/mysite.freeserve.com/newworldtranslation/parousia.htm

Our clarified understanding is this: *** w08 2/15 pp. 23-25 Christ’s Presence—What Does It Mean to You? ***

The Generation Seeing the Sign
10 Previously, this journal has explained that in the first century, “this generation” mentioned at Matthew 24:34 meant “the contemporaneous generation of unbelieving Jews.” That explanation seemed reasonable because all other recorded uses that Jesus made of the term “generation” had a negative connotation, and in most cases, Jesus used a negative adjective, such as “wicked,” to describe the generation. (Matt. 12:39; 17:17; Mark 8:38) Thus, it was felt that in the modern-day fulfillment, Jesus was referring to the wicked “generation” of unbelievers who would see both the features that would characterize “the conclusion of the system of things” (syn·te′lei·a) and the system’s end (te′los).

11 It is true that when Jesus used the word “generation” negatively, he was speaking to or about the wicked people of his day. But was that necessarily true of his statement recorded at Matthew 24:34? Recall that four of Jesus’ disciples had approached him “privately.” (Matt. 24:3) Since Jesus did not use negative qualifiers when speaking to them about “this generation,” the apostles would no doubt have understood that they and their fellow disciples were to be part of the “generation” that would not pass away “until all these things [would] occur.”

12 On what basis may we draw that conclusion? By carefully considering the context. As recorded at Matthew 24:32, 33, Jesus said: “Now learn from the fig tree as an illustration this point: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and it puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.” (Compare Mark 13:28-30; Luke 21:30-32.) Then, at Matthew 24:34, we read: “Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.”

13 Jesus said that it was his disciples, soon to be anointed with holy spirit, who should be able to draw certain conclusions when they saw “all these things” occur. So Jesus must have been referring to his disciples when he made the statement: “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.”–(Not the "Wicked Generation)

14 Unlike unbelievers, Jesus’ disciples would not only see the sign but also understand its significance. They would “learn” from the features of that sign and “know” their true meaning. They would fully appreciate that “he is near at the doors.” While it is true that both unbelieving Jews and faithful anointed Christians saw a limited fulfillment of Jesus’ words in the first century, only his anointed followers back then could learn from these events—could understand the true meaning of what they saw.

15 Those without spiritual understanding today have felt that there has been no “striking observableness” with regard to the sign of Jesus’ presence. They reason that everything is continuing on as it did in the past. (2 Pet. 3:4) On the other hand, Christ’s faithful anointed brothers, the modern-day John class, have recognized this sign as if it were a flash of lightning and have understood its true meaning. As a class, these anointed ones make up the modern-day “generation” of contemporaries that will not pass away “until all these things occur.” This suggests that some who are Christ’s anointed brothers will still be alive on earth when the foretold great tribulation begins.“Keep on the Watch”

16 More is needed, though, than merely recognizing the sign. Jesus went on to say: “What I say to you I say to all, Keep on the watch.” (Mark 13:37) Nine decades have passed since Jesus was installed as King in heaven in 1914. **As challenging as it may be, we must prove ourselves ready and keep on the watch. **Understanding that Christ is present invisibly in Kingdom power helps us to do that.

–I know you will probably have alot to say regarding our view of Prov 4:18 But It is what we truly believe it means.

 

[dj_dave]

Here is something else to consider. Throughout the Bible the Secret of the “seed” was progressively revealed.

□ After 4026 B.C.E.: God promises to raise up a Seed to destroy Satan.—Genesis 3:15
□ 1943 B.C.E.: The Abrahamic covenant is validated, promising that the Seed will come through Abraham.—Genesis 12:1-7
□ 1918 B.C.E.: Birth of Isaac as heir to the covenant.—Genesis 17:19; 21:1-5
□ c. 1781 B.C.E.: Jehovah confirms that the Seed will come through Isaac’s son Jacob.—Genesis 28:10-15
□ 1711 B.C.E.: Jacob indicates that the Seed will come through his son Judah.—Genesis 49:10
□ 1070-1038 B.C.E.: King David learns that the Seed will be his descendant and will rule forever as King.—2 Samuel 7:13-16; Psalm 89:35, 36
□ 29-33 C.E.: Jesus is identified as the Seed, the Messiah, the future judge, and the King-Designate.—John 1:17; 4:25, 26; Acts 10:42, 43; 2 Corinthians 1:20; 1 Timothy 3:16
□ Jesus reveals that he will have fellow rulers and judges, that the heavenly Kingdom will have earthly subjects, and that all his followers are to be Kingdom preachers.—Matthew 5:3-5; 6:10; 28:19, 20; Luke 10:1-9; 12:32; 22:29, 30; John 10:16; 14:2, 3
□ Jesus reveals that the Kingdom will be established at a definite time, as corroborated by world events.—Matthew 24:3-22; Luke 21:24
□ 36 C.E.: Peter learns that non-Jews will also be Kingdom joint heirs.—Acts 10:30-48
□ 55 C.E.: Paul explains that the Kingdom joint heirs will be resurrected to immortality and incorruption during Christ’s presence.—1 Corinthians 15:51-54
□ 96 C.E.: Jesus, already ruling over his anointed followers, reveals that their final number will be 144,000.—Ephesians 5:32; Colossians 1:13-20; Revelation 1:1; 14:1-3,17

We love it when the “light” gets brighter. Why would God give his people a perfect understanding of his unfolding purpose—it would be too blinding.
Compare John 14:12-14

When we have new books released at our District Assemblies we are so encouraged—that is how the “faithful slave” works. It keeps us enduring the
crazy world we live in. (Matthew 24:45-47) “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings. Notice too

(John 16:12,13) 12 “*I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present. 13 However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide *YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming.

Original Word: ὁδηγέω
Transliteration: hodégeó
Phonetic Spelling: (hod-ayg-eh’-o)
Short Definition: guide

ALSO there is this:
(Proverbs 2:1-5) 2 *My son, if you will receive my sayings and treasure up my own commandments with yourself, 2 so as to pay attention to wisdom with your ear, that you may incline your heart to discernment; 3 if, moreover, you call out for understanding itself and you give forth your voice for discernment itself, 4 if you keep seeking *for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep searching for it, 5 in that case you will understand the fear of Jehovah, and you will find the very knowledge of God.

I’m sorry if you do not accept this but, it is what we belive.

 

[dj_dave]

Jesus, whose word trumps all, said there is nothing unclean that goes into the mouth. Only out. The old covenant laws are no longer in effect. (Except the moral laws such as do not kill, and, do not commit adultery).

“there is nothing unclean that goes into the mouth”…LSD? Magic Mushrooms?
sorry, couldn’t pass that up

(Acts 15:28-29) 28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!”

Question: what is the difference between “blood” and “things strangled”?

So, the JW’s ever-changing policies on blood products is an unecessary (and dangerous) burden on their members.

 

[dj_dave]

are conscious of nothing, they obviously feel no pain” (p. 169). The Bible indicates otherwise: "The smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest (Rv 14:11); the rich man, “being in torment,” calls out, “I am in anguish in this blazing fire” (Lk 16:23-24); “there men will weep and gnash their teeth” (Mt 8:12).

What really is the case with the rich man and beggar?

Teachers of hellfire and life after death eagerly point to this account as definite proof that there is indeed a hell of torment that awaits the wicked. But, in so doing, they disregard such clear and repeated Biblical statements as: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4, 20) And: “As for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Clearly these statements do not support the idea of torment for “lost souls” in a fiery hell.

(Ecclesiastes 9:10) …All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, (the Grave) the place to which you are going.

(Psalm 13:3) ...Do look [upon me]; answer me, O Jehovah my God. Do make my eyes shine, that I may not fall asleep in death,

Sincere seekers for the truth want to know what is right. They realize that they would only be fooling themselves if they rejected portions of God’s Word while claiming to base their beliefs on other parts. They want to know what the Bible actually says about the condition of the dead. And, to fill out the picture, they want to know the meaning of what is said about the rich man who experienced torment in Hades, and how that fits in with the rest of the Bible.

Please read Luke 16:19-31

Now, Note what is said about the rich man. Why was he tormented in Hades? What had he done? Jesus did not say that the rich man led a degraded life, did he? The rich man lacked compassion for him. But did that failing distinguish him sufficiently from Lazarus?

Think about what Jesus said concerning Lazarus. Is there anything in the account to lead us to conclude that, if the situation had been reversed, Lazarus would have been a compassionate man? He merely described Lazarus as a sickly beggar.

So is it logical to conclude that all sickly beggars will receive divine blessings at death, whereas all rich men will go to a place of conscious torment? The Bible contains the prayerful expression: “Give me neither poverty nor riches.” (Proverbs 30:8) And of his time, King David wrote: “I have not seen anyone righteous left entirely, nor his offspring looking for bread.”—Psalm 37:25.

If we take Jesus’ words literally, we would have to draw still other conclusions that would make the illustration strange indeed. These include: That those enjoying celestial happiness are in position to see and speak to those suffering torment in Hades. That the water adhering to one’s fingertip is not evaporated by the fire of Hades. And, that, although the torment of Hades is great, a mere drop of water would bring relief to the sufferer.

Taken literally, do these things sound reasonable to you? Or, do you feel, instead, that what Jesus said was not meant to be taken literally? Is there any way to be sure?

Examine the context. To whom was Jesus talking? At **Luke 16:14 **we are told: “Now the Pharisees, who were money lovers, were listening to all these things, and they began to sneer at him.”

Since Jesus spoke in the hearing of the Pharisees, was he relating an actual case or was he simply using an illustration? **Concerning Jesus’ method of teaching the crowds, we read: “Indeed, without an illustration he would not speak to them.” **(Matthew 13:34) Accordingly, the account about the rich man and Lazarus must be an illustration.

KEEP READING: This illustration was evidently directed to the Pharisees. As a class they were like the rich man. They loved money, as well as prominence and flattering titles. Jesus said of them: “All the works they do they do to be viewed by men; for they broaden the scripture-containing cases that they wear as safeguards, and enlarge the fringes of their garments. They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues, and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men.”—Matthew 23:5-7.

The Pharisees looked down on others, especially on tax collectors, harlots and others having the reputation of being sinners. (Luke 18:11, 12) On one occasion when officers, sent to arrest Jesus, came back empty-handed because of having been impressed by his teaching, the Pharisees spoke up: “You have not been misled also, have you? Not one of the rulers or of the Pharisees has put faith in him, has he? But this crowd that does not know the Law are accursed people.”—John 7:47-49.

Continued…

 

[dj_dave]

Hence, in the parable the beggar Lazarus well represents those humble persons whom the Pharisees despised but who repented and became followers of Jesus Christ.

Jesus showed that these despised sinners, upon repenting, would gain a position of divine favor, whereas the Pharisees and other prominent religious leaders as a class would lose out. He said: “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and the harlots are going ahead of you into the kingdom of God. For John came to you in a way of righteousness, but you did not believe him. However, the tax collectors and the harlots believed him, and you, although you saw this, did not feel regret afterwards so as to believe him.”—Matthew 21:31, 32.

What, then, is signified by the death of the “rich man” and of “Lazarus”? We do not need to conclude that it refers to actual death. As used in the Bible, death can also represent a great change in the condition of individuals. For example: Persons pursuing a course of life contrary to God’s will are spoken of as being ‘dead in trespasses and sins.’ But when they come into an approved standing before God as disciples of Jesus Christ they are referred to as coming “alive.” (Ephesians 2:1, 5; Colossians 2:13) At the same time such living persons become “dead” to sin. We read: “Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed with reference to sin but living with reference to God by Christ Jesus.”—Romans 6:11.
Since both the “rich man” and “Lazarus” of Jesus’ parable are clearly symbolic, logically their deaths are also symbolic. But in what sense do they die?

**The key to answering this question lies in what Jesus said just before introducing the illustration: “Everyone that divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he that marries a woman divorced from a husband commits adultery.” (Luke 16:18) **This statement may appear to be completely unrelated to the illustration. But this is not the case.

By reason of the Mosaic law the nation of Israel was in a covenant relationship with God and therefore could be spoken of as being a wife to him. At Jeremiah 3:14, for example, God refers to the nation as an unfaithful wife: “‘Return, O you renegade sons,’ is the utterance of Jehovah. ‘For I myself have become the husbandly owner of you people.’” Then, with the coming of Jesus, an opportunity was extended to the Jews to become part of his “bride.” That is why John the Baptist said to his disciples: “You yourselves bear me witness that I said, I am not the Christ, but, I have been sent forth in advance of that one. He that has the bride is the bridegroom. However, the friend of the bridegroom, when he stands and hears him, has a great deal of joy on account of the voice of the bridegroom. Therefore this joy of mine has been made full. That one [Jesus] must go on increasing, but I must go on decreasing.”—John 3:28-30.

NOTICE CLOSLEY:
In order to become part of Christ’s “bride,” the Jews had to be released from the Law that made them, figuratively speaking, a wife to God. Without such release, they could not come into a wifely relationship with Christ, as that would be an adulterous relationship. The words of Romans 7:1-6 confirm this:

“Can it be that you do not know, brothers, (for I am speaking to those who know law,) that the Law is master over a man as long as he lives? For instance, a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is alive; but if her husband dies, she is discharged from the law of her husband. So, then, while her husband is living, she would be styled an adulteress if she became another man’s. But if her husband dies, she is free from his law, so that she is not an adulteress if she becomes another man’s.

“So, my brothers, you also were made dead to the Law through the body of the Christ, that you might become another’s, the one’s who was raised up from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. ... Now we have been discharged from the Law, because we have died to that by which we were being held fast, that we might be slaves in a new sense by the spirit, and not in the old sense by the written code.”

CONTINUED…

 

[dj_dave]

dj dave

“So, my brothers, you also were made dead to the Law through the body of the Christ, that you might become another’s, the one’s who was raised up from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. ... Now we have been discharged from the Law, because we have died to that by which we were being held fast, that we might be slaves in a new sense by the spirit, and not in the old sense by the written code.”

CONTINUED…

While the death of Jesus Christ was the basis for releasing the Jews from the Law, even before his death repentant ones could come into a favored position with God as disciples of his Son. The message and work of John the Baptist and of Jesus Christ opened the door for the Jews to seize the opportunity to gain divine favor and put themselves in line for a heavenly inheritance as members of Christ’s bride. As Jesus himself expressed it: “From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it.”—Matthew 11:12.

Hence, the work and message of John the Baptist and of Jesus Christ began to lead toward a **complete change in the condition of the symbolic “rich man” and “Lazarus.” Both classes died to their former condition. **The repentant “Lazarus” class came into a position of divine favor, whereas the “rich man” class came under divine disfavor because of persisting in unrepentance.

At one time the “Lazarus” class had looked to the Pharisees and other religious leaders of Judaism for spiritual “crumbs.” But Jesus’ imparting the truth to them filled their spiritual needs. Contrasting the spiritual feeding provided by Jesus with that of the religious leaders, the Bible reports: “The crowds were astounded at his way of teaching; for he was teaching them as a person having authority, and not as their scribes.” (Matthew 7:28, 29) Truly a complete reversal had taken place. The religious leaders of Judaism were shown up as having nothing to offer to the “Lazarus” class.

On the day of Pentecost of the year 33 C.E. the change in conditions was accomplished. At that time the new covenant replaced the old Law covenant. Those who had repented and accepted Jesus were then fully released from the old Law covenant. They died to it.

On that day of Pentecost there was also unmistakable evidence that the disciples of Jesus Christ had been exalted far above the Pharisees and other prominent religious leaders. Not the religious leaders of Judaism, but these disciples received God’s spirit, enabling them to speak about “the magnificent things of God” in the native languages of people from widely scattered places. (Acts 2:5-11)

What a marvelous manifestation this was of their having God’s blessing and approval! The “Lazarus” class had indeed come into the favored situation by becoming the spiritual seed of the Greater Abraham, Jehovah. This was pictured as the “bosom position.”—Compare John 1:18.

As for the unrepentant Pharisees and other prominent religious leaders, they were dead to their former position of seeming favor. They were in “Hades.” Remaining unrepentant, they were separated from the faithful disciples of Jesus as if by a “great chasm.” This was a “chasm” of God’s unchangeable, righteous judgment. Of this, we read in Scripture: “Your judicial decision is a vast watery deep.”—Psalm 36:6.

The “rich man” class was also tormented. How? By the fiery judgment messages of God being proclaimed by Jesus’ disciples.—Compare Revelation 14:10.

That the religious leaders were tormented by the message proclaimed by Jesus’ disciples there can be no question. **They tried desperately to stop the proclamation. When the apostles of Jesus Christ made their defense before the Jewish supreme court composed of prominent religious men, the judges “felt deeply cut and were wanting to do away with them.” **(Acts 5:33) Later, the disciple Stephen’s defense had a like tormenting effect upon the members of that court. “They felt cut to their hearts and began to gnash their teeth at him.”—Acts 7:54.

These religious leaders wanted the disciples of Jesus to come and ‘cool their tongue.’ They wanted the “Lazarus” class to leave the “bosom position” of God’s favor and present his message in such a way as not to cause them discomfort. Similarly, they wanted the “Lazarus” class to water down God’s message so as not to put their “five brothers,” their religious allies, in a “place of torment.” Yes, they did not want any of their associates to be tormented by judgment messages.

But, as indicated by Jesus’ illustration, neither the “rich man” class nor his religious allies would be freed from the tormenting effects of the message proclaimed by the “Lazarus” class. The apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ refused to water down the message. They refused to stop teaching on the basis of Jesus’ name. Their reply to the Jewish supreme court was: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.”—Acts 5:29.

If the religious allies of the “rich man” wanted to escape that torment, they could do so. They had “Moses and the Prophets,” that is, they had the inspired Holy Scriptures written by Moses and other ancient prophets.

Not once did those inspired Scriptures point to any literal place of torment after death, but they did contain all that was necessary to identify Jesus as the promised Messiah or Christ. (Deuteronomy 18:15, 18, 19; 1*Peter 1:10, 11)

Hence, if the “rich man” class and his “five brothers” had paid attention to “Moses and the Prophets,” they would have accepted Jesus as the Messiah. That would have brought them in line for divine favor and shielded them from the tormenting effects of God’s judgment message.

ALL FOR NOW…

 

[yellowbird]

dj dave,
I appreciate the time you’ve taken to explain the Society’s new understanding regarding “this generation.” The problem I have is this: You can claim the “light got brighter” but that doesn’t explain why Jehovah would have His chosen people whom He inspires through the power of His Spirit, whom He quite literally puts words on their lips, and pens their literature preach a false message for what… 80 years? 90 years? Why would Jehovah do that? He cannot lie. He would NEVER put those words on anyone’s lips if they weren’t true.

So for me, it all boils down to this… clearly the Watchtower Society, despite it’s claims is NOT Jehovah’s appointed messenger. Not when the message is continually in error. Because you cannot honestly say that the current teaching regarding the “generation” is correct. Maybe the light STILL isn’t bright enough? Maybe in 80 years the Society will decide that the generation is NOT about ABC… but instead is XYZ.

God is not a God of confusion… but a God of order. And the Society’s constant changing doctrines are a mass of confusion.

I take comfort in knowing that what I believe as a Catholic is the exact same thing my Catholic brothers and sisters 500 years ago believed. !000 years ago. 1500 years ago. My religion doesn’t change because God doesn’t change. How sad that Jehovah’s Witnesses can’t even state that their core beliefs aren’t the same as the JWs 20 years ago. The “generation” doctrine was so foundational it was printed on the inside of every AWAKE! magazine. The fact that it didn’t happen as the JWs prophecized and now, as the “light got brighter” has all changed is laughable, if it weren’t so very sad for all the JWs who blindly follow.

 

[higherednerd]

Whenever the subject of Jehovah’s Witness theology comes up, I feel compelled to make sure people understand something very clearly about the two classes of saved folks. The annointed, and the great crowd. The annointed who go to heaven and see God and Jesus and are co-rulers with them, vs. the great crowd who live forever on a restored paradise earth.

What this means is that most of the New Testament is not addressed to the great crowd and is irrelevant to them. By reading the New Testament, it’s almost as if the great crowd is reading mail not meant for them. No adoption, no joint heirs, no seeing God face to face, and the description of the saved state for the nations in Revelations doesn’t apply to them. That’s a big deal, and people need to understand that.

How many annointed are left anyhow, and what is the plan for keeping Watchtower leadership functioning?

 

[thequeen]

The best defense you can have when you meetup with anyone who tries to convert you to their religion such as the jehovahs witnesses do is to know your own Catholic faith

 

[yellowbird]

How many annointed are left anyhow, and what is the plan for keeping Watchtower leadership functioning?

That is a very good question. What is so frustrating to me is that even if ALL the annointed die, the Society will just insist that the “light got brighter” and what was previous taught is outdated, but THIS is the new “truth.” I honestly don’t understand why anyone would trust that organization considering their dismal track record.

 

[John_Pascendi]

Good for you…I as well have been visited by members of the JW…and frankly I am impressed that in this world of luke warmers there are still folks out there who believe in what they do enough to go door to door. I just happened to be reading a book on a concentration camp experience during WW2 and how the members of the JWs stuck together and were never discouraged…I mentioned this to the two at my door and they were quite emotional in their thank yous! This organization has correctly warned their members about the dangers of the UN and for this also I compliment them…a secular world gov.bit! I like to inform them of any charitable works I am engaged in with any local organization…re rotary,Knights of Columbus etc…this also helps to dispell age old smears against we ‘papists’ that all we do is pray on beads and ignore the weak and needy. Sure there are flaws in their thinking but at least they take a stand on issues and have left the couch of indifference and are in the market place…God bless you for being kind and a role model for ‘our’ side…all the best…Pas

 

[yellowbird]

This organization has correctly warned their members about the dangers of the UN and for this also I compliment them…a secular world gov.bit! I like to inform them of any charitable works I am engaged in with any local organization…re rotary,Knights of Columbus etc…this also helps to dispell age old smears against we ‘papists’ that all we do is pray on beads and ignore the weak and needy.

Yes, the JWs do preach that the United Nations is “the disgusting thing that causes desolation” spoken of by Daniel and Jesus, as well as “the image of the wild beast” described in Revelation which is due to experience God’s judgment." A Resolution in 1963 had Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide promise to keep free from any attachments to this entity. (published in the WT Nov 15)

So WHY did the Watchtower Society actually apply for and receive associate status at the United Nations / Dept. of Public Information in 1992? Since the JWs consider this an evil organization, why would they want anything to do with them?? So much for being no part of the world… ? The were able to keep the membership a secret for 10 years, but then it hit the fan, so to speak and when everyone cried foul, they pulled away from their association with the UN.

Also, I have to correct you here… JWs do not help the poor or needy, unless you count the “free Bible study” they offer. They do not contribute to “worldy” charitable organizations such as the Red Cross, Salvation Army or anything of the sort. They don’t collect to help the needy in any way. No food collections - nothing. They might help their own members… but Good Samaritans they are not.

 

[Zooey]

What would have happened if, like the JWs-- ALL the religious leaders would have ALL told their parishioners NOT to go to war? Would there still have been a war??

Oh, yes, there would have been a war all right…A war that Hitler would have won, and all hell would have been turned loose on the earth.
Hitler, you see, not having any religion other than himself, would have been delighted to wipe out whomever he chose, and enslave the rest.
Funny how you all never seem to appreciate the fact that the reason you are FREE to come to people’s doors with your literature, is because other people fought and died for your freedom. Which you now dare to use as a whip against them. **Shame on you!! **
All the other groups who were conscientious objectors were & are grateful for what we have. They respect those who died, even whilst disagreeing. Many were nurses & ambulance drivers. Many were wounded & even killed as they worked. How can you dare to be so disrespectful of them, as well as combatants??

---

You claim the word “prophet” means someone who will do Jehovah’s preaching work… regardless, your message has a track record of being 100% WRONG. Obviously it is NOT a message Jehovah put on your lips… all those claims of the Society being Jehovah’s spokesman on earth… the organization HE chose to carry out work… ? You’d think if he CHOOSE you, he’d make sure you were saying the correct things? Why choose a group of people and then sit back for over 100 years and allow them to preach a false message in your name? Seriously… does that even make sense to you??

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[Zooey]

I want to clarify something I said, above.
I am not trying to be snotty about conscientious objectors. For the most part, they are kind, well-meaning people, who simply are following their own moral & ethical standards.
What ticks me off is when I hear someone get all judgemental, like they are somehow superior because they are C.O.'s, and behave like the people who fought for this country are somehow contemptible, and say things like that all religious leaders should just stop all the wars by not letting anybody fight.
Because what I said, is the truth: Without war, Hitler would have won. The Nazis & the Communists (neither of which gave a snap of the fingers for any god but themsleves) could have just taken over the world, and we would all have ended up in concentration camps.
Its the ingratitude that really makes me angry. It just so happens, that this attitude has been and continues to be, my experience with the JWs. I don’t see it in Mennonites or Amish, or Quakers, or even in Buddhists, for pete’s sake… You know??
I think JWs need a serious attitude adjustment before they knock on my door again.

 

[Bob4BVM]

dj dave,
I appreciate the time you’ve taken to explain the Society’s new understanding regarding “this generation.” The problem I have is this: You can claim the “light got brighter” but that doesn’t explain why Jehovah would have His chosen people whom He inspires through the power of His Spirit, whom He quite literally puts words on their lips, and pens their literature preach a false message for what… 80 years? 90 years? Why would Jehovah do that? He cannot lie. He would NEVER put those words on anyone’s lips if they weren’t true.

So for me, it all boils down to this… clearly the Watchtower Society, despite it’s claims is NOT Jehovah’s appointed messenger. Not when the message is continually in error. Because you cannot honestly say that the current teaching regarding the “generation” is correct. Maybe the light STILL isn’t bright enough? Maybe in 80 years the Society will decide that the generation is NOT about ABC… but instead is XYZ.

God is not a God of confusion… but a God of order. And the Society’s constant changing doctrines are a mass of confusion.

I take comfort in knowing that what I believe as a Catholic is the exact same thing my Catholic brothers and sisters 500 years ago believed. !000 years ago. 1500 years ago. My religion doesn’t change because God doesn’t change. How sad that Jehovah’s Witnesses can’t even state that their core beliefs aren’t the same as the JWs 20 years ago. The “generation” doctrine was so foundational it was printed on the inside of every AWAKE! magazine. The fact that it didn’t happen as the JWs prophecized and now, as the “light got brighter” has all changed is laughable, if it weren’t so very sad for all the JWs who blindly follow.

SAD is the word that comes to my mind as well.
Especially for Catholics who have left the Church for the JW life.
I find it absolutely amazing that people can go to Mass for years and not even learn enough about it to at least realize what they have here.
No One who truly understands what is happening in the Holy Mass could ever leave the Church, least of all for a cult like JW.

Is does make me sad to hear the stories.
It is amazing, how little people will settle for when it comes to their faith.

+Peace,
Bob

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Our duty as Christians is to always seek the Truth, and when we find it, to live by it.

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[Bob4BVM]

I want to clarify something I said, above.
I am not trying to be snotty about conscientious objectors. For the most part, they are kind, well-meaning people, who simply are following their own moral & ethical standards.
What ticks me off is when I hear someone get all judgemental, like they are somehow superior because they are C.O.'s, and behave like the people who fought for this country are somehow contemptible, and say things like that all religious leaders should just stop all the wars by not letting anybody fight.
Because what I said, is the truth: Without war, Hitler would have won. The Nazis & the Communists (neither of which gave a snap of the fingers for any god but themsleves) could have just taken over the world, and we would all have ended up in concentration camps.
Its the ingratitude that really makes me angry. It just so happens, that this attitude has been and continues to be, my experience with the JWs. I don’t see it in Mennonites or Amish, or Quakers, or even in Buddhists, for pete’s sake… You know??
I think JWs need a serious attitude adjustment before they knock on my door again.

I know Zooey,
Do you think maybe they are put there to test our Christian charity.?
Remember this-you can pray for them, for their enlightenment.
There is nothing, no force, as powerful as prayer.
And to think that we can wield that weapon !
Pray, pray, pray.
Bob

 

[Bob4BVM]

Whenever the subject of Jehovah’s Witness theology comes up, I feel compelled to make sure people understand something very clearly about the two classes of saved folks. The annointed, and the great crowd. The annointed who go to heaven and see God and Jesus and are co-rulers with them, vs. the great crowd who live forever on a restored paradise earth.

What this means is that most of the New Testament is not addressed to the great crowd and is irrelevant to them. By reading the New Testament, it’s almost as if the great crowd is reading mail not meant for them. No adoption, no joint heirs, no seeing God face to face, and the description of the saved state for the nations in Revelations doesn’t apply to them. That’s a big deal, and people need to understand that.

How many annointed are left anyhow, and what is the plan for keeping Watchtower leadership functioning?

Good observations !
Strange belief, HOW can people get sucked into something this obviously flawed ?

 

[Bob4BVM]

The best defense you can have when you meetup with anyone who tries to convert you to their religion such as the jehovahs witnesses do is to know your own Catholic faith

YES !
Had a good round with them this weekend, discussing the HOLY Spirit, you wouldn’t believe it, but they argued that the HS was not a person of the Trinity. Not a person at all ! Some vague ‘force’. Check it out in the latest watchtower rag. Amazing. & Sad.
I guess Jesus had it all wrong in His teachings on the HS…

 

[Bastoune]

Not a trinity as most of Christendom teaches. The Bible doesn’t teach that, and we base all our beliefs on what the Bible prophets say. Especially Jesus.

It’s funny you don’t believe the Bible (compiled and canonized by the Catholics) teaches the Trinity. You believe Jesus is merely a prophet? Or Michael the Archangel? Funny how most JWs deny they believe Jesus is Michael – yet the literature you serve tells otherwise.

Who is the Alpha and the Omega?

Have you ever read Hebrews chapter 1? To whom are the OT psalms referring? To YHWH or to Jesus? Or could it be that… no… couldn’t be?

The Holy Spirit can be grieved… (Isaiah 63:10, Eph. 4:30). Hardly electricity.

I take no stock in a 19th Century cult basing the name of God on an English deformation of “YHWH” and applying it to the Almighty God, let alone one whose 1951 NWT contradicts their previous “translations” (based off of English).

The good news is if I don’t have an immortal soul and I will simply cease to exist, I don’t have to worry about hell or condemnation if I reject your foolish, godless teachings! I will simply be non-existent – which will be much better than spending eternity on Earth with the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

I apologize for my candor but your teachings would be laughable if their effects were not so deadly to your souls.