JWs - Christmas in the workplace...

[kage_ar]

In the past, I’ve had both co-workers and employees who were JWs – one JW co-worker who rallied to have our company Christmas Party re-named as the Holiday Party.

They to a person have held strong to the non-Christmas participation belief, with one strange caveat – when the business gives the employees a paid day off for Christmas, they accept the day off and the pay for it. Call me strange, but, if I believed in my bones that Christmas was wrong and celebrating it was sinful, I would go to work on Christmas day the same as any other work day. If the company actually shut down that day, I would on religious principal, refuse to be paid for the day off.

Do any of the JW’s who read/post here have experience with this in the workplace? Would you refuse to accept pay for what you consider sinful? What about Christmas bonuses paid to employees – would you accept these? What is the Witness’ official doctrinal stand on these monies?

Thanks in advance for the insight.

 

[Jaded27]

::sigh:: Please do not let it be a mistake to answer this ::

First off, I (in my PERSONAL opinion) think it is silly for JWs to petition them to call it a “holiday party”. I’m sorry, but since when do we celebrate ANY holidays? That’s just silly. Sounds to me like someone wants to go to the party and eat free cake without a guilty conscience. I just go if it’s during work hours and if it’s not then I don’t bother. I figure it’s during work hours, you’re getting paid, so go and socialize. If it’s on a weekend then you are taking your personal time to go to a holiday function and that shouldn’t be acceptable.

Here’s my deal with the pay, and what I always done. I accept Christmas bonuses and I do not go into work on holidays. First of all, every company I’ve ever worked for would not allow you to work xmas day. However, my first job at a video store I would always volunteer to work thanksgiving, easter, all that so that the others could spend time with their families.

As for the bonuses, I think we can all say that in this day and age we need whatever money we are given. I know with a mortgage and 11 pets and a wedding to plan I’ll certainly accept some extra money here or there. The thing that makes me feel “not guilty” about it is that all my employers know where I stand on Christmas. They all know what my religion is. I don’t hide it and try to blend in or something. So if they chose not to give me a bonus, then that’s their prerogative. But I’m not going to say no. in most cases, I’ve not even gotten one ON Christmas. It’s usually more of an “end of the year” bonus and you get it in January or something. So I never had a problem with it.

However, I think the people that make a big deal about Christmas vs. Holiday parties should not accept the bonus. They’re just trying too hard if you ask me. Lol.

 

[carol_marie]

As a former JW, let me take a stab at this one. First off, I HATED it that my company had a “Christmas Party” that was manditory. When I told my boss that I didn’t celebrate Christmas & didn’t want to attend (it was held on the weekend - not during a workday) he made a big to-do about how EVERYONE had to come to the party. I refused. So to make me feel better they changed the name of the party from Christmas Party to “Employee Appreciation Party in December.” How dumb is THAT? I had to listen to all my co-workers complain that they couldn’t have their Christmas party because of me… how I got them to change the name (it was sooooooo not my idea - I still didn’t want to go) and when the party finally rolled around I went because I was afraid I’d lose my job if I didn’t.

Well guess what… they had a Christmas tree… they had Christmas decorations up - the boss even dressed up as Santa & passed out presents. I was so mad that they “tricked” me into coming to an event I didn’t want to attend. That should have been MY right - to say no & they should’ve celebrated however they wanted. The other employees were ticked - I was ticked and what’s the point of a “party” if everyone is mad?

So - I say companies should have their Christmas Parties if they want but attendence should be optional.

Regarding the bonuses and days off… well that’s just silly. If Martin Luther King Day was a paid holiday and you were white wouldn’t you expect to get the day off & paid like your black co-workers? Or would you insist on going to work because YOU weren’t black? I worked for a guy who belonged to the World Wide Church of God. He celebrated all the Jewish holidays & gave the employees a day off (with pay). How many of them (non-Jewish - non World Wide Church of God) do you think said… OH heavens no… I’ll come to work because I don’t celebrate Jewish holidays?? That’s just silly. A day off is a day off.

I say if a bonus is given - everyone should receive it regardless of whether or not they “celebrate the holiday” for which it is given.

One thing I have to say is JW’s are CONSTANTLY having to stand up for their faith - even when it’s very uncomfortable & more often than not… they are standing alone in their convictions. This isn’t easy to do… no one likes to be singled out or thought of as wierd or different. But they do it because they believe it is pleasing to God. Give credit where credit is due.

 

[mercygate]

In my office JWs never make a big deal of it. We all know what their position is. They don’t participate. Don’t come to the lunch. Don’t do the grab bag. Don’t make a scene.

Heck. If we want Christmas off as a paid holiday, why shouldn’t we share the bonus with EVERYBODY – even those who do not share our faith? Jesus didn’t seem to have a problem with that? Let the JW’s keep the check.

 

[Jaded27]

carol marie:

Well guess what… they had a Christmas tree… they had Christmas decorations up - the boss even dressed up as Santa & passed out presents. I was so mad that they “tricked” me into coming to an event I didn’t want to attend. That should have been MY right - to say no & they should’ve celebrated however they wanted. The other employees were ticked - I was ticked and what’s the point of a “party” if everyone is mad?

This EXACT thing happened to me once and turned me off of that type of stuff forever. Now if I go I just accept that it’s an xmas party and I decide based on that, not what anyone is telling me it’s “going to be”.
carol marie:

Regarding the bonuses and days off… well that’s just silly. If Martin Luther King Day was a paid holiday and you were white wouldn’t you expect to get the day off & paid like your black co-workers? Or would you insist on going to work because YOU weren’t black?

I say if a bonus is given - everyone should receive it regardless of whether or not they “celebrate the holiday” for which it is given.

Excellent point!

 

[rayne89]

carol marie:

As a former JW, let me take a stab at this one. First off, I HATED it that my company had a “Christmas Party” that was manditory. When I told my boss that I didn’t celebrate Christmas & didn’t want to attend (it was held on the weekend - not during a workday) he made a big to-do about how EVERYONE had to come to the party.

That’s just nuts. I mean Jewish people don’t celebrate Christmas either and several other religions don’t either. What a control freak.

 

[kage_ar]

I’ve know Jewish folks who will work Christmas and Easter so those who celebrate can be off with family - and I think that is great. Simply in my personal experience, I’ve not worked with a JW who made that offer.

If there were some manditory holiday that was something I felt sinful - for example, National Celebrate Contraception day, and my company made it a paid day off - I really WOULD go to them and ask that they either let me work or that they donate the money somewhere else. But, maybe that is just me…

 

[Jaded27]

Well, Christmas has become such a universal thing that it’s not even like a religious holiday anymore. Mind you, I’m not saying it’s not religious for some. Just not for all.
It’s more of a “time off” type of thing for a lot of people. Even Jewish people I know take it off as a paid holiday and have no problem doing so. And why would they? Everyone else has it off paid.

I don’t find xmas offensive because it doesn’t interfere with my life or anything. If I found it offensive I would do what you suggest and insist on working or something. Natural contraception day will never be a paid holiday I think we can all agree. Lol. But I see what you’re saying. It’s all personal preference though. If you don’t need the money, fine. But I definitely DO! lol

 

[b_justb]

I was already done with the with JW scene when I entered into full time work, but I had not started celebrating any holidays yet. One Christmas when I was 18 and working at a Watch shop, I put on a red Santa hat that I stuffed with paper towels to make it look like a cone head. Pulled it down real low over my head covering my ears and then put on some dark sunglasses and cut up in the store with fellow work buddies. A JW from our local congregation saw me and reported to the leadership that I was celebrating Christmas. When I was asked about it at the committee meeting I told them exactly what I had done. When I was disfellowshipped a few months later that was one of the reasons stated for my dismissal: “Celebrating Christmas.” I laughed then when they said it and I still laugh today, what a bunch of tools.

 

[kage_ar]

carol marie:

Regarding the bonuses and days off… well that’s just silly. If Martin Luther King Day was a paid holiday and you were white wouldn’t you expect to get the day off & paid like your black co-workers? Or would you insist on going to work because YOU weren’t black? I worked for a guy who belonged to the World Wide Church of God. He celebrated all the Jewish holidays & gave the employees a day off (with pay). How many of them (non-Jewish - non World Wide Church of God) do you think said… OH heavens no… I’ll come to work because I don’t celebrate Jewish holidays?? That’s just silly. A day off is a day off.

Perhaps I was not clear, in my impression, it is not as simple as not celebrating Christmas, it is finding it to be sinful to do so - or against one’s moral code to do so. I understand that the JWs define celebrating Christmas as sinful.

White people do not find MLK to be a sin - the sin issue is what I am referring to…

 

[Jaded27]

kage_ar:

Perhaps I was not clear, in my impression, it is not as simple as not celebrating Christmas, it is finding it to be sinful to do so - or against one’s moral code to do so. I understand that the JWs define celebrating Christmas as sinful.

White people do not find MLK to be a sin - the sin issue is what I am referring to…

Well, in that case I don’t see taking a day off when NO ONE else is working either and accepting pay for it (as it’s in your job to be paid for days off) as a sin. Now if you took that day off and went home to celebrate Christmas as a JW, then yea, that’d be an issue. But not taking the day off with everyone else.

Everyone takes it off and gets paid. Why should JWs be excluded on the basis of religion?

 

[b_justb]

Jaded27:

Everyone takes it off and gets paid. Why should JWs be excluded on the basis of religion?

I can see both sides of this one. I could ague hard for each position.

 

[kage_ar]

Jaded27:

Everyone takes it off and gets paid. Why should JWs be excluded on the basis of religion?

In my industry, as well as many others, someone has to work on Christmas (in the case of my industry, people tend to want to make phone calls on Christmas, so - someone at the phone company has to work)… While a unit or department might be off, others are working - so, not everyone gets the day off.

And - again, I am just trying to get the sin part straight in my head - I found it a bit hypocritical to take $$ for something you consider to be sinful. Sort of like the way I’d never go apply for a job at Planned Parenthood - how could I take money for something I considered sinful?

There is a difference between finding something morally neutral (for example, I will not celebrate Grandparent’s day this weekend because I think it is a silly made up holiday. I do not find it against my morals, just silly) and feeling something is sinful.

That is all - I do not say exclude the JWs from holiday pay - that is not my point…

 

[b_justb]

kage_ar:

I found it a bit hypocritical to take $$ for something you consider to be sinful. Sort of like the way I’d never go apply for a job at Planned Parenthood - how could I take money for something I considered sinful?

Excellent argument, I thought the same thing. But as I said, I can still see both sides of it.

 

[carol_marie]

kage_ar:

In my industry, as well as many others, someone has to work on Christmas (in the case of my industry, people tend to want to make phone calls on Christmas, so - someone at the phone company has to work)… While a unit or department might be off, others are working - so, not everyone gets the day off.

And - again, I am just trying to get the sin part straight in my head - I found it a bit hypocritical to take $$ for something you consider to be sinful. Sort of like the way I’d never go apply for a job at Planned Parenthood - how could I take money for something I considered sinful?

There is a difference between finding something morally neutral (for example, I will not celebrate Grandparent’s day this weekend because I think it is a silly made up holiday. I do not find it against my morals, just silly) and feeling something is sinful.

That is all - I do not say exclude the JWs from holiday pay - that is not my point…

Right… but the money typically isn’t because the company is so overjoyed that Christ was born and they want to show their appreication to HIM by giving all of the employees a bonus.

It’s typically at the end of the year… when the company has done well and they want another write off and to show their appreciation to their employees for a job well done.

I’m certain that if the employeer said, “Here is $100 - you MUST spend it on Christmas related items” the JW would probably decline. But that’s just not how it’s done.

Working for Planned Parenthood and working at a grocery store that gives Christmas/end of the year type bonuses is two totally different things.

 

[b_justb]

carol marie:

Right… but the money typically isn’t because the company is so overjoyed that Christ was born and they want to show their appreication to HIM by giving all of the employees a bonus. Working for Planned Parenthood and working at a grocery store that gives Christmas/end of the year type bonuses is two totally different things.

Another good argument for this side of it as well.

 

[kage_ar]

This was an honest question - I really have wondered about this for years. I did not mean for this to be offensive, I fully expected someone who knows JW doctrine to tell me that there was a dispensation of some sort.

Guess I’m just a bit to stern!

 

[carol_marie]

kage_ar:

This was an honest question - I really have wondered about this for years. I did not mean for this to be offensive, I fully expected someone who knows JW doctrine to tell me that there was a dispensation of some sort.

Guess I’m just a bit to stern!

No harm, no foul. I think there’s nothing wrong with asking questions… it gets us all talking - which is what we’re here for, right?


God Bless,
CM

 

[b_justb]

OK I have to weigh in. Step one: Strap on my flak vest …

I think we have to admire the JWs for their stance on principle. Mother in the hospital is going to die if she doesn’t get a blood transfusion? So be it, it’s their belief. Constantly ridiculed for not celebrating this that or the other holiday? Every time, they take it on the chin.

So now we have, “Here have a Christmas Bonus.” What is the principle? If you’re the kind of person that lives according to principle and your principle is that Christmas is pagan and wrong, then you don’t take the money. You don’t have to be all up in peoples faces about it. You can simply tear up the check at home, that way only you, God, and the company’s accounting office knows.

If you’re going to go by principle, then do it 100% or stay home.