JW's on Jesus - works for me?

[mark_a]

I think, nevertheless, I am misunderstanding Church teaching on these issues as they are very complex and are not explained explicitly in scripture as far as I know. In short -

How did Jesus really die if he was God?

If he didn’t die like we do, how was he able to ransom us?

What did he get from dying that he did not already have with the Father before he came to earth?

Thanks to anyone who cares to answer my questions and God Bless All

These are all great questions.

My only comment is to beware any man or group who claims to have solved the mystery of God. Any such claim is an issult to the omnipotence of God.

 

[CuriousM]

Hi Tommy,
I’m a former jw. Left officially Nov 05.

There is not much more that I can add.
However, there is this:
I see that your concern lies with the JW’s views on Jesus as compared to traditional or Orthodox Christianity.

I thought you would find it interesting that the Jehovah’s Witnesses do Not believe that Jesus was (is?) the mediator between God and Man. They believe that he was the mediator between God and the Annointed.

Here are some quotes from their publications which I found from this website:
jwfiles.com/mediatorjwfiles.com/mediator.htm

The WTBTS says Jesus is the Mediator only for the anointed.

*** w79 4/1 31 Questions from Readers ***
At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the “one mediator between God and men.” (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word “mediator” in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is “mediator.” *So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians. *
Remember who is in charge and who is directing the information, the Anointed Governing Body!!!

*** w79 11/15 26 Benefiting from “One Mediator Between God and Men” ***
20 What, then, is Christ’s role in this program of salvation? Paul proceeds to say: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men [not, all men[/COLOR]], a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.”—1 Tim. 2:5, 6.

*Notice the part [not, all men], that was inserted in the scripture quoted, by the “Anointed Governing Body”. *

*** Worldwide Security 1986, p110 The “Prince of Peace” Turns to Those Outside the New Covenant ***
And in our time, millions of the “other sheep” are already benefiting from the ministry of the new covenant, as rendered by the anointed remnant under the Mediator, Jesus Christ.

So the Anointed are rendering to the other sheep instead of Jesus directly.

** w89 8/15 30 Questions From Readers ***
Clearly, then, the new covenant is not a loose arrangement open to all mankind. It is a carefully arranged legal provision involving God and anointed Christians.

*** w89 8/15 31 Questions From Readers ***
The people of all nations who have the hope of everlasting life on earth benefit even now from Jesus’ services. *Though he is not their legal Mediator, for they are not in the new covenant, he is their means of approaching Jehovah. *

Ok, so you see here that the JW’s are teaching that Jesus is not your mediator.
But, if you believe the bible IS the word of God, then you look at the scripture at 1 Timothy and see their teachings go against the very heart of the Christian faith, which is that Jesus died for All men.

You sound like you are wanting to make sense of religion and Christianity in general. That is great!!!
I can understand this.
There are many philosophies out there, many religions. So, start reading and take classes that don’t ask for your allegiance to their leaders.
You Can think for yourself, and make up your own mind.
But joining the JW’s will not allow you to do this in the long run.
Good luck on your spiritual journey!

I have a disassociation letter on my blog at myspace if you are interested in reading it, as well as letters to my family addressing various issues.
Here is my blog space:
blog.myspace.com/webspinnerfey

 

[Claude_Kenneson]

I remember Jehovah’s Witnesses telling me that we do not have souls, but that we are souls. Gen. 2:7 And to bolster their belief that souls are not immortal they pointed me to Ezek. 18:4: “The soul that is sinning, it will die.” I was totally shocked later to read in the same chapter in verses 27 and 28 that when the wicked man turns from his transgressions he will keep living. He will not die. Wonder why they never pointed that out to me? I had to find it on my own.

 

[Claude_Kenneson]

In John 5:28 (New World Translation) we are told that all those in the memorial tombs will hear Jesus’ voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. If the dead exist only in the memory of God as Jehovah’s Witnesses claim, how can they hear Jesus’ voice?

 

[QuietTimes]

Some asked why I undertook these studies in the first place. I know a lot of JWs and am impressed with their conduct and beliefs. That was the biggest factor. Moreover, most of my encounters with the Catholic Church have not been that great for a number of years, despite the fact that I remain active and sincerely try to be a good brother. I would be glad to elaborate if anyone was interested.

The exchange here, however, has restored some of my faith and I am most thankful. God Bless All Here.

Hello ther Tommy,
You have to understand a few things that I am not sure anyone has touched and it is this, when people want you to do something they will be very nice to you like the saying goes you can catch more flies with honey. I have had the experience with them in this fashion as long as I am letting them share their faith me all is good and great the moment that I have questioned and challenged them they have turned very nasty and almost vulgar towards me. Mind you I have kept my composure. This organization has meetings (trainings) to show them how to talk to people and they have prepared speeches, they dress very well and are the most polite. I know many people that converted because they were nice and dressed well I just cant help but think that all that they do to show a great outward appearance is all a front. Because once inside the kingdom hall I have heard different they will disfellowship you on various accounts that they deem rightous at the expense of breaking up families.
If you put your faith in people and the way they behave then you are in for some serious spiritual troubles. I used this excuse and many others to stay away from the catholic Church for many years and what brought me back was through reading and being able to study my faith because I was always being challenged myself and was unable to respond to any of it. People are not always going to be nice and when they are that is a bonus , but put your faith in Jesus Christ and you wont be dissapointed dont leave our church for some counterfit organization that is confused about who Jesus is.
I urge you to read the bible, read the early church fathers, and read apologetics also pray and fast all these things will help you discern what the objective truth is.

 

[QuietTimes]

Please be wary of any religion that uses “proof texts” to demonstrate that their religion is “true”. THe JWs, Mormons, SDAs and other religions that started in the 1800s as offshoots of the Campbellite Movement use a method known as “proof-texting” to try to prove that their religion is true. They take selected scripture verses out of context to try to convince you that they are preaching the true gospel of Christ.

But the bible, taken in its honest entirety, proves that the Catholic faith is the only one that agrees with the bible in every particular.

As a former Mormon, who investigated all of the 19th-century Campbellite offshoots, I can tell you that all of these 19th-century Campbellite offshoots are false religions that twist the bible to support their false gospels. The JWs even publish their own paraphrase of the bible (the New World “Translation”) with huge changes (see John 1:1) to support their false teachings. They change John 1:1 to say, instead of “the Word was God”, that “the Word was a god”.

The bible is clear throughout that there is only one God. But the Campbellite offshoots (the JWs, Mormons and SDAs) all teach that there are many gods. To become a JW or Mormon or SDA is to become a pagan - believing that God is not the only God. Please do not become a pagan. The pagan gods cannot save you.

Praying for you,
Paul

campbellites, millerites, and russellites so and so on when is this madness going to end?

 

[johannahw]

I was a Catholic convert who studied for about 6 months with them. I believed everything they taught and went to all the meetings right away and kept at it the whole time I was with them. Finally, the only that made me leave them was the very real addiction I had to cigarettes. For 3 years I had been trying to quit and during my sojourn with the JWs I just couldn’t stay off them for very long. I would go to meetings in shame knowing I smelled like an ashtray. Others avoided me and I wasn’t even baptized yet. Realizing that there was no hope for me to ever trust that I’d ever truly be tobacco free, I called my teacher on the phone and just quit going.
I’m still struggling with smoking but have gone 3 months this time without a smoke.
Johannah

 

[Mjae]

Furthermore, the Bible describes Jesus as the mediator between God and man.

What does this mean?

If two people are having a fight, there must be a third person to mediate between them. This person cannot be wholly on one side or the other, for they would be a reinforcement rather than a mediator. Likewise, Christ, if He is our mediator, cannot be fully God (as the Docetists proposed) because God remains too transcendent from man. Nor can He be fully man (as the Arians proposed) because there is no way man can reach up to God. Being “half-God half-Man” doesn’t work, because those words have no meaning (how can someone be just “half-God” ). Thus, if Christ is the Mediator, He MUST be fully God and fully man.

The incarnation would have occurred even if the fall did not occur. It would have been necessary to complete the unity between God and man.

 

[Mjae]

Furthermore, the Bible describes Jesus as the mediator between God and man.

What does this mean?

If two people are having a fight, there must be a third person to mediate between them. This person cannot be wholly on one side or the other, for they would be a reinforcement rather than a mediator. Likewise, Christ, if He is our mediator, cannot be fully God (as the Docetists proposed) because God remains too transcendent from man. Nor can He be fully man (as the Arians proposed) because there is no way man can reach up to God. Being “half-God half-Man” doesn’t work, because those words have no meaning (how can someone be just “half-God” ). Thus, if Christ is the Mediator, He MUST be fully God and fully man.

The incarnation would have occurred even if the fall did not occur. It would have been necessary to complete the unity between God and man.

I’m sorry, but that’s wrong. Jesus is FULLY God, as well as FULLY man. That’s why he can mediate for us.