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Marilena
Guest
any jw can be saved, so can muslims, buddhists. exct. if they accept Christ and His True Church they can be saved. Unless iam not reading you right here.
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bella5110
Guest
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bella5110
Guest
Yes, of course they can be saved, but by The Grace of God, not simply by talking to them. They are so brainwashed, it truly is up to Our Lord to save them, if it is in His Will…
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carol_marie
Guest
Hey, thanks! That is sweet of you to say. Although I just LOVE cradle Catholics who’ve always been in love with Jesus, His Mother & His Church.Well, I can understand when someone is under the influence or “brainwashed”, that that was how you thought about your parents. Just thank God He waited for you, and you came home to our one church started by Jesus Christ. Remember, Catholic converts make the best Catholics…
back atcha!
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Marilena
Guest
your quite correct when you state that witnesses are brainwashed. i know, i was there. it isn’t funny, its truly sad how heavily indoctrinated they are
only Christ can save them. but we can help plant the seed the Master gives us and it takes root and He cultivates the seed we plant and when truth takes root, it spreads and bears good fruit.
this is why i state alot that when we have an opportunity from God when a witnesses is at our door, we can plant the seed the Master gives us. If it is His will, it will be done. All things are possible with God.
This we have faith in, and this we believe in.
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bella5110
Guest
I had someone in a cowboy hat drop me a booklet about The Watchtower, and when I just said that he was talking to the wrong person, that I am a Roman Catholic, he was all “whatever” attitude. I told him two facts about our religion and he acted as if I wasn’t even there. So I gave him the book back and said I’d pray for his soul. He just went away muttering “Mary was just a conceiver”. They are truly brainwashed. Very weak…
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Kay_Cee
Guest
By that logic, wouldn’t they just be able to shout “Jehovah” at the cake or person that’s demon-possessed? And wouldn’t it be doing a great favor to someone demon-possessed to shoo those demons away?
Instead they just leave? And angels assist them in leaving someone they could help?
Don’t any of them ever think this through?
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Marilena
Guest
This is for the OP, SamiB:
here is a good point i just came across in Jason Evert’s book,
Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses:
Chapter 10 Did Christ Already Return?
page 113
“Another difficulty for the idea of a 1914 return can be found in 1 Corinthians 11:26, which reads, “For as often as YOU eat this loaf and drink this cup, YOU keep proclaiming the death of the Lord until he arrives” ( emphasis added ). If he arrived in 1914 as the Watchtower asserts, then why is the Memorial of the Lord ( their version of a Holy Thursday celebration ) celebrated each year? Their own worship practice contradicts their theology.”
So they do not know when armageddon is coming, and they cannot predict or know when Christ will return. they don’t know. don’t listen to their alarmist propaganda. only God kows the hour or the day, not man, and not an organization built on false doctrine and false predictions.
here is a good point i just came across in Jason Evert’s book,
Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses:
Chapter 10 Did Christ Already Return?
page 113
“Another difficulty for the idea of a 1914 return can be found in 1 Corinthians 11:26, which reads, “For as often as YOU eat this loaf and drink this cup, YOU keep proclaiming the death of the Lord until he arrives” ( emphasis added ). If he arrived in 1914 as the Watchtower asserts, then why is the Memorial of the Lord ( their version of a Holy Thursday celebration ) celebrated each year? Their own worship practice contradicts their theology.”
So they do not know when armageddon is coming, and they cannot predict or know when Christ will return. they don’t know. don’t listen to their alarmist propaganda. only God kows the hour or the day, not man, and not an organization built on false doctrine and false predictions.
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Marilena
Guest
indeed.
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bella5110
Guest
The Teachings:
“Beginning of the End” in 1799 (later changed to 1914)
Christ’s “Invisible Presence” begins in 1874 (later changed to 1914).
The Battle of Armageddon ends in 1914 (later changed to “still future”).
The Battle of Armageddon will end shortly after 1914.
The Battle of Armegeddon will come around 1925.
1914 is the starting date for the last generation before the Battle of Armageddon.
People who were present and understood the events of 1914 will live to see the Battle of Armageddon.
Anyone born by 1914 will live to see Armageddon.
Anyone who sees the events signaling the End, regardless of any relationship to 1914, will live to see Armageddon.
Whew! How’s that ? :whacky:
“Beginning of the End” in 1799 (later changed to 1914)
Christ’s “Invisible Presence” begins in 1874 (later changed to 1914).
The Battle of Armageddon ends in 1914 (later changed to “still future”).
The Battle of Armageddon will end shortly after 1914.
The Battle of Armegeddon will come around 1925.
1914 is the starting date for the last generation before the Battle of Armageddon.
People who were present and understood the events of 1914 will live to see the Battle of Armageddon.
Anyone born by 1914 will live to see Armageddon.
Anyone who sees the events signaling the End, regardless of any relationship to 1914, will live to see Armageddon.
Whew! How’s that ? :whacky:
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AHF
Guest
Marilena said (post #66)
gcnuss said (post #36)
Here are some scriptures for those who are thinking about these things - about the advisability of trying to use the Bible to set a date for Christ’s return:
ACTS 1:6 It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority.
MARK 13:32-33 But of that day or that hour no one knows… you do not know when the time will come
MATT 25:13 you know neither the day nor the hour.
MATT:24:42 you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
MATT 24:44 the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
1 THESS 5:2 the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
2 PET 3:10 the day of the Lord will come like a thief…
REVELATION 16:15 I am coming like a thief
One of the problems with Witness eschatology is, since they teach that Christ “returned” invisibly in 1914, it forces them into trying to sort out scriptures that would apply, according to them, on the one hand to the supposedly “first” invisible return of christ, and then Armageddon. And the distance in time between the “invisible return” in 1914, and Armageddon, keeps getting longer and longer - it was originally supposed to last just one literal generation, if that long.
gcnuss said (post #36)
Wise words. That’s it in a nutshell.
Here are some scriptures for those who are thinking about these things - about the advisability of trying to use the Bible to set a date for Christ’s return:
ACTS 1:6 It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority.
MARK 13:32-33 But of that day or that hour no one knows… you do not know when the time will come
MATT 25:13 you know neither the day nor the hour.
MATT:24:42 you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
MATT 24:44 the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
1 THESS 5:2 the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
2 PET 3:10 the day of the Lord will come like a thief…
REVELATION 16:15 I am coming like a thief
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Marilena
Guest
Thanks for that. Now here is another good point from Jason Evert’s book, Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses:
Chapter 10 Did Christ Already Return?
page 112
"Paul does not expect an invisible and quiet Second Coming when he calls on others to “wait for the happy hope, and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus” ( Titus 2:13; emphasis added ). Jesus came visibly the first time, and the Second Coming will be likewise. Also, the disciples were informed by an angel that, just as Jesus ascended visibly and gloriously, he “will come thus in the same manner as YOU have beheld him going into the sky” ( Acts 1:11, cf. 1:9 ). The angel would not have asked the apostles why they were looking into the sky if Jesus’ ascension was invisible, so it was visible; thus, that is the manner in which he will return. In Matthew 24:23-27, we are advised that
if anyone says to YOU, “Look! Here is the Christ,” or “There!” do not believe it. For false Christs and false proohets will arise…
For just as the lightening comes out of eastern parts and shines over western parts, so the presence Greek, parousia, “coming” ] of the Son of Man will be.
Regrettably, this warning by Jesus applies to the Watchtower."
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Damascus
Guest
How do they dismiss SO MANY clear cut and dry verses?
There is not much room for a loose interpretation of these declarations.
I have always wondered if they forget to read these passages because they are on such a strict study schedule of scripture to read as deemed important by the society, that they dont read the parts of the bible that are not drilled into them over and over again in the required study they must do.
If they do read the bible outside of the suggested study - then how do they reconcile these verses with their beliefs?
Maybe they see it and dissmiss it. They know its there, but if it were important, certainly the society would emphasize it, and maybe they assume since they dont, it must be irrelevant.
Just a guess on my part.
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Marilena
Guest
How do they dismiss SO MANY clear cut and dry verses?
There is not much room for a loose interpretation of these declarations.
I have always wondered if they forget to read these passages because they are on such a strict study schedule of scripture to read as deemed important by the society, that they dont read the parts of the bible that are not drilled into them over and over again in the required study they must do.
If they do read the bible outside of the suggested study - then how do they reconcile these verses with their beliefs?
Maybe they see it and dissmiss it. They know its there, but if it were important, certainly the society would emphasize it, and maybe they assume since they dont, it must be irrelevant.
Just a guess on my part.
i do not uderstand why they dismiss it. the evidence is there in the Holy Bible. even in their own Bible unless they changed it.
Why they chose to over look it is beyond me. we all know that they changed the scriptures to suit their belief. but this is in their version of the Bible, and yet they chose to ignore it, why? likely because to acknowledge it would mean that they are wrong, and they do not want to be proven wrong, so they over look it or intepret it to mean something else.
they cannot escape the truth. one day when Christ returns they will be forced to acknowledge the truth whether they like it or not.they can only run from the truth for so long before it catches them.
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carol_marie
Guest
How do they dismiss SO MANY clear cut and dry verses?
.
There was so much of the Bible we didn’t focus on. We spent so much time in the Book of Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation, Isaiah … always talking about prophecy and how only the JW’s could properly interpret what it all meant…
And keep in mind, JW’s have TONS of books… we were always studying a book & pulling out a scripture here & there (taken out of context) to support the paragraph in the book.
Also, we had to read the magazines every month… 2 issues of the Watchtower & Awake, cover to cover and answer all the questions in the Watchtower… using only the Watchtower paragraphs of course. It was all so ridiculous. We had to read the article assigned for that week… underline the answers to the questions from the paragraphs and then, on Sunday we’d go over all the questions one at a time as a congregation, repeating the same exact answers that of course everyone agrees with since the answers are printed right there on the page. No thinking for yourself is allowed - ever.
Bottom line… we didn’t really “study” the Bible… we studied the mateirals printed by the Watchtower Society.
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Damascus
Guest
Lots of study. Yet no solid overall bible instruction.
Where is the worship?
Where is the worship due God? He does not make us worship books and magazines.
he wants us to worship HIM.
Where is the worship?
Where is the worship due God? He does not make us worship books and magazines.
he wants us to worship HIM.
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Marilena
Guest
oh how that brings memories back!
the awake and watchtower mags every month… endless hours in field service… freezing cold temperatures as low as -23 and standing in long johns and a skirt and boots and a long coat and hat and gloves holiding up the latest publication in front of a business… going door to door on boiling hot days… and wet rainy days… all for the society… getting a bad bad case of bronchitis because i froze and stood out there for the society…and doing it because i believed it was a small price to suffer for the bold brothers of the governing body who were preaching and “teaching” about God’s soon to come kingdom.
yup, sitting in stifling hot kingdom halls and listening to the latest propaganda put out by the society, and buying into it hook line and sinker…
going to the conventions and watching water immersions and listening to the societies latest speeches about false religion. how to witness boldly in this old system of things, and how we had to go door to door as that is what the society required of us…
sitting there for up to five hours or more in 1 day listening to the same old propaganda we’ve all heard before…
how to prepare yourself for God’s kingdom… i remember it all like it was yesterday…
then there was timely magazines about Christmas, and how we ought to be glad we weren’t part of the world who was celebrating a “pagan” holiday…how the society knew people were tempted to celebrate it, but be bold brave brothers and sisters, we stand apart from the world as they celebrate a demonistic holiday… we wont have no part in their destruction. exct exct exct… heard it all.
while the world was celebrating Christmas, thanksgiving, Easter, and being close as a family, some of us were dying inside, longing to be with friends or family at these special holidays, and looking in store windows at the beautiful decorations, and watching happy shoppers and wishing we were part of all the fun and the joy of these times…
yup, i remember it all. And thank God that Iam no longer dying inside, and thank God that He has led me home to the TRUE Church, the Catholic Church. I thank God that every witness who has left the falsetower and is free and knows Christ is no longer dying inside, and is free and knows the truth. Not all “died” inside, some of us did. a little piece of us was taken from us everytime a holiday or birthday passed and we were not allowed to be there.
but, since God has called us home, we are alive again, and we have been given back all the pieces of ourselves and our lives that were taken from us. For this, we thank God every moment of our lives.
Thanks be to You, our Lord Jesus Christ!
Amen!
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Marilena
Guest
you know what? this Christmas iam going to think of all the poor misled souls in the society who are dying inside and pray for each and every one of them that they find the joy that is Jesus Christ, and that they too can celebrate His birth, and celebrate
Easter as they want to do.
i will pray that they get back that part of themselves that has been taken from them. that perhaps when just 1 witness sees the lovely nativity scenes and hears the church bells, or sees carolers, that they stop and listen, and look and absorb the joy of Christmas.
i’ll pray that their heart is open and God walks right in and delivers them from the devil.
that is what i will pray for at Christmas time, and i’ll thank God with all my heart as i do, for Christmas, and for each and every witness out there who steps forward and reclaims their life!
Easter as they want to do.
i will pray that they get back that part of themselves that has been taken from them. that perhaps when just 1 witness sees the lovely nativity scenes and hears the church bells, or sees carolers, that they stop and listen, and look and absorb the joy of Christmas.
i’ll pray that their heart is open and God walks right in and delivers them from the devil.
that is what i will pray for at Christmas time, and i’ll thank God with all my heart as i do, for Christmas, and for each and every witness out there who steps forward and reclaims their life!
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b_justb
Guest
Damascus - The JW’s do not worship. No emphasis what-so-ever is placed upon worship. All of the structure of the group is designed for the survival of the group. All arguments against the group are countered with their own arguments (the logic behind the arguments not withstanding).Lots of study. Yet no solid overall bible instruction.
Where is the worship?
Where is the worship due God? He does not make us worship books and magazines.
he wants us to worship HIM.
The efforts of the JW’s are focused on making more JW’s (through evangelization) and keeping the JW’s they have (through coercion). Talk to the other former JW’s here and on other sites. Removing yourself from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is an emotionally crushing experience. The more immersed into the organization one is the harder it is to removed oneself from it.
I left the JW’s 25 years ago. My parents were and are still in. Other than the now polite hello in email we have nothing to do with each other. It took almost 20 years to get to the point of polite hellos via email.
The people that vehemently describe the JW’s as a cult do so from personal experience and personal harms and hurts.
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