JWs View of God

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jschwehm

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Hi All:

I wrote the following on another discussion board when the JWs were attacking the Divinity of Christ and the Trinity.

"First we need to back up a little bit. There has been many comments on the Trinity but that is just the tip of the iceberg as far as the differences in how the JWs view God and how we, as Catholics, view God.

I want to share with you some comments about the nature of God that the Watchtower Society wrote in their book “You Can Live Forever In Paradise On Earth” on pages 36 and 37. Notice the following:
While most people say they believe in God, many do not think of him as a real person. Is he? Well, it can be seen that where there is intelligence there is a mind…And we know that where there is a mind there is a brain in a body of a definite shape.
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So, for them, Almighty God has a body and even a brain!!! Of course the implication in all of this is that for someone to be a person they must have a body and brain very much like us humans.

The comments continue below:
Since God is a person with a spiritual body, he must have a place to live. The Bible tells us that the heavens are God’s “established place of dwelling.” (1 Kings 8:43) Also, we are told that “Christ entered…into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us.” (Hebrews 9:24) Some humans will be rewarded with live in heaven with God, at which time they will receive spirit bodies. (1 John 3:2) This, too, shows that God is a person, and that he has a body.
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Again we see above that for God to be a person (singular) the JWs imply he must have a body. Since God in their mind has a body, this means that for them God can only be at one place at a time. In other words, the implication is that the JW God is subject to place and time unlike the Christian God who is beyond space and time.

Notice what they say next:
But someone may ask: ‘If God is a real person who lives at a certain place in heaven, how can he see everything that happens everywhere? And how can his power be felt in every part of the universe?’ (2 Chronicles 16:9) The fact that God is a person in no way limits his power or greatness. Nor should it lessen our respect for him. (1 Chronicles 29: 11-13) To help us understand this, consider the far-reaching effects of an electric power plant.
A power plant has a certain location in or near a city. But its electricity is distributed over all that area, providing light and power. It is similar with God. He is in the heavens. (Isaiah 57:15; Psalms 123:1) Yet his holy spirit, which is his invisible force, can be felt everywhere, over all the universe. By means of his holy spirit God created the heavens, the earth and all living things. (Psalm 33:6; Genesis 1:2; Psalm 104:30) To create these things, God did not need to be present in body. He can send out his spirit, his active force, to do whatever he wants even though he is far away. What a marvelous God!-Jeremiah 10:12; Daniel 4:35
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So for the JWs God is not even omnipresent. He is limited as far as where he can be by his body and must send an impersonal force like electricity to have his presence felt. In the past, the Watchtower Society even taught that Jehovah lived on the star Alcyone in the center of the Pleiades Constellation. They held this belief until 1953. The following is a quote from C.T. Russell’s book Thy Kingdom Come in the 1903 edition:
Alcyone, the central one of the renowned Pleiadic stars… Alcyone, then, as far as science has been able to perceive, would seem to be ‘the midnight throne’ in which the whole system of gravitation has its seat, and from which the Almighty governs his universe…
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The following is a quote from JF Rutherford’s book Reconciliation that was published in 1928:
The constellation of the seven stars forming the Pleiades… It has been suggested, and with much weight, that one of the stars of that group is the dwelling-place of Jehovah… The constellation of the Pleiades is a small one compared with others… But the greatness in size of other stars or planets is small when compared with the Pleiades in importance, because the Pleiades is the place of the eternal throne of God…
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So, as you can see the JWs’ view of God is very different from the way in which Jews and Christians have viewed Almighty God for thousands of years."

Jeff S.
www.catholicxjw.com
 
Hi,

You must not even take as serious any statements made by this SECT, just ignore them. Yes Pray for them, but do not even use your mind o:thumbsup: n such stupidity, use your heart in prayer instead.
Peace be with you.
 
Wow Jeff!

Sounds more like Mormonism again. It is so weird how much they have in common. I had no idea the JWs used to hold that God lived on a planet. I wonder how long it will be before Mormons abandon it too.

God has a brain? Who do they think designed and formed such brain?
 
jschwehm said:
…the Watchtower Society wrote in their book “You Can Live Forever In Paradise On Earth” on pages 36 and 37.
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hey Jeff! I am in that book! I modelled for the girl in the foreground in the pic of the bathing ‘beauties’ who lured angels into becoming demons! HAHAHA! way back when… and I was in the old Youth book too–I was the little girl with the ponytail putting on lipstick in the mirror in the chapter about appearances and vanity! (see I was always the ‘bad’ girl even then!) …come to think of it I played Jezebel in a drama once too…
Ravyn
 
I am so sorry Jeff! I meant to post that to you in a message not on the thread! this is the second time I have put the post in the wrong place! (my monitor is about to go and it is dim, so if I have more than one window open it is hard for me to see the dimension edges of where one window starts and the other one stops…) I am embarrassed. 😊
(Not that I care if anyone reads it–but that I messed up again.) By the time I realized it was on the thread the edit button was gone. sorry. did not mean to get off topic.
Ravyn
 
Ravyn,

Sorry for interupting on your personal mail, gone astray, but you have touched on what perhaps is the point here.

If you have more than one monitor on you cannot see properly, everything is dim, well is that not the point in all these discussions & debates.

If you cannot see, then you make judgement mistakes, I guess that is what I would say to folk who get wound up in SECTS.

Peace be with you,

Jubilatae:rolleyes:
 
check with your local recyle depot, you can pick up a monitor dirt cheap, maybe even $3 or free.
 
As a former JW, I have thought about how the JW’s view God and how skewed it is from traditional Christian thought.

When JW’s are proselytizing, one of the tactics they use is to use the phrase “What do you think God thinks about <insert whatever issue/point being discussed here>?”

I have always held this as very odd. The question does two things:
  1. It places the person answering the question equal to or on a higher position than God. What I think now becomes what God thinks, or maybe what He should think.
  2. It attempts to lower God’s position in the universe by assuming or asserting that God is not omniscient.
This idea runs all through JW ideology. It is the basis for their insistence for using what they think the Divine Name is. (What do you think God thinks about people not using His name?) You can see it in another method they use in proselytizing. They will talk to you and point out all the crummy and bad stuff happening and then point it to their (Last Days / Armageddon / This System of Things)™ scenario. Then the obligatory: What do you think God thinks of all this ?

It is used in guilt-ing their own members into action. What do you think God thinks about you not going out in service? … not getting baptized? … not being enrolled in Ministry School? …

This is part of the reason the JW’s are viewed as a cult. They use a system of manipulation that equates humanity with the Divine in order to forward their agenda and obtan the results in behavior they wish to get.
 
b_justb said:
As a former JW, I have thought about how the JW’s view God and how skewed it is from traditional Christian thought.

When JW’s are proselytizing, one of the tactics they use is to use the phrase “What do you think God thinks about <insert whatever issue/point being discussed here>?”

I have always held this as very odd. The question does two things:
  1. It places the person answering the question equal to or on a higher position than God. What I think now becomes what God thinks, or maybe what He should think.
  2. It attempts to lower God’s position in the universe by assuming or asserting that God is not omniscient.
Click to expand...
I had always wondered about this, but could never put my finger on it. Thank you! It always sounded strange. In Catholic discernment we are asking where does God want us. In JW discernment it seems they are asking, “where do YOU think God wants you?”

I agree. A question asking “what God does think about” would really bring God to low level. I have seen it in other arguments here too. People ask, “Do you really think God cares what you do in your bedroom?” Me: “Um, well it doesn’t matter what I think He thinks about. What matters is what He has told us to think about.”
 
I was talking to a friend of mine a little bit back. His situation is that he left the JWs long ago, but most of his family is still in. His wife and oldest children (16 and 19) have recently left the JWs. We all went out to dinner and he and were discussing this exact point. How the JWs see God.

The point I hit up with at the time of our discussion was that the JWs teach and live out the idea of Disposable Relationships. I believe this starts with their insistence that God is strictly monotheistic, where historical Christianity teaches that God is relational. It begins with the relationships of the Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This relational God then relates to us in completely relational terms. He has always moved with His people in covenants. Biblical covenants impresses upon the covenant keepers that God is in the covenant as a holder and a keeper of the same. The marriage covenant is both covenant and sacrament because of the relational aspect of God in the marriage. Scripture is packed with the symbolisms of the relational in Divine interactions with man. The Israelites of the old Covenant are to be a pure spotless bride, the Church is referenced with the same language. God is our Father, we are Sons and as Sons heirs to His promises. Saint Paul talks about the mystery of the relational aspects of marriage being exactly like Christ’s love for His church. You get it I am sure …

The JWs vehemently disagree with the relational aspects of the Godhead. The result is devastating ideology. Any familial tie can be and will be cut if any member of the family leaves the organization because relationships are disposable. There is no hell, there is only annihilation of the soul because relationships are disposable. Any member of the group that dissents to the point of a break is shunned extremely because relationships are disposable. Any person on the outside of the Society is not cared for in any way what-so-ever because relationships are disposable.

This idea that relationships are disposable comes from a much skewed view of who God is. Until that is addressed in the fundamental ideology of the JWs it cannot be corrected.
 
b_justb said:
The JWs vehemently disagree with the relational aspects of the Godhead. The result is devastating ideology. Any familial tie can be and will be cut if any member of the family leaves the organization because relationships are disposable. There is no hell, there is only annihilation of the soul because relationships are disposable. Any member of the group that dissents to the point of a break is shunned extremely because relationships are disposable. Any person on the outside of the Society is not cared for in any way what-so-ever because relationships are disposable.

This idea that relationships are disposable comes from a much skewed view of who God is. Until that is addressed in the fundamental ideology of the JWs it cannot be corrected.
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This makes a lot of sense, especially considering how my (former JW) friend thinks about relationships now. She absolutely cannot commit. She has been living with her boyfriend for nearly a decade. She won’t marry and she won’t have kids. She once said, “You have no idea how messed up I am about commitment.” She won’t go to weddings, funerals, or even baby showers.

She was shunned for improper dress. She and her mom haven’t spoken in 12-15 years. So very tragic. Such a sweet person. She is the reason I subscribe to these threads. I so wish I could help her. She does say that I am one of very few “religious people” that she will even discuss with, so I do have hope. Please pray for her. Her first name is April and she is the one who introduced my husband to me. She holds a very special place in our hearts.
 
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LittleDeb:
Please pray for her …
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🙂 You got it :crossrc:
 
Jeff,
your original post is stunning when you think about it.
In all my years in JW-Land, I never really “got it” that they deny God to be omnipresent. Somehow, I always managed to think he was. I believed he had a spirit body, but that it was not bound by space considerations. They believe he is an actual sprit body with an actual shape and size dwelling somewhere in the heavens.

Now, we believe that Jesus, God the Son, has a glorious resurrected spritualized human body WEDDED TO his divine nature and that Jesus’s glorified body exists, not on some planet in the universe, but in another “dimension” of existence, as it were.

I remember reading about Rutherford’s claim that Jehovah dwelt on the star Alcyone in the Pleiades constellation, but I only learned THAT AFTER I left the organization. I did check and verify that it was true, he believed that and taught it to JWs.

The Watchtower version of “Jehovah” is not really even a
God at all, but a kind of Extraterrestrial Being. This is too weird, way too weird. Reminds me of the Mormon “Heavenly Father” and his “home” on the star-planet Kolob.
E.T., phone home !!

God bless you,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
This is very interesting, but I guess not surprising. I had no idea the JWs held such views on God (eg not being omnipresent).
 
I think a lot of JWs, especially newer members, do not fully realize what the Society’s leaders believe about the limited nature of God, that he is a person with a delineated spirit body who emanates his active force (kind of like an energy field) throughout the universe (and this energy/active force is their version of the Holy Spirit). The Society doesn’t harp on God’s limited spirit body, so a lot of JWs aren’t fully aware of it, unless of course they read a publication like
YOU CAN LIVE FOREVER IN PARADISE ON EARTH, where as Jeff’s post proves, they teach that belief in no uncertain terms.

It’s kinda funny, but I remember the Elder whom I used to study with, one night at his house we were talking about Adam and Eve’s fall into sin and why didn’t Jehovah intervene and warn Eve that the Serpent was lying to her, and he said to me, in all seriousness, "Because Jehovah had no way of knowing that Adam and Eve were going to commit that sin. He had no way of knowing that they were going to do that."

Even then, I thought that was a strange thing to say because I thought that God could fully foresee all future events.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
I think a lot of JWs, especially newer members, do not fully realize what the Society’s leaders believe about the limited nature of God, that he is a person with a delineated spirit body who emanates his active force (kind of like an energy field) throughout the universe (and this energy/active force is their version of the Holy Spirit). The Society doesn’t harp on God’s limited spirit body, so a lot of JWs aren’t fully aware of it, unless of course they read a publication like
YOU CAN LIVE FOREVER IN PARADISE ON EARTH, where as Jeff’s post proves, they teach that belief in no uncertain terms.

It’s kinda funny, but I remember the Elder whom I used to study with, one night at his house we were talking about Adam and Eve’s fall into sin and why didn’t Jehovah intervene and warn Eve that the Serpent was lying to her, and he said to me, in all seriousness, "Because Jehovah had no way of knowing that Adam and Eve were going to commit that sin. He had no way of knowing that they were going to do that."

Even then, I thought that was a strange thing to say because I thought that God could fully foresee all future events.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
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This is honestly astonishing that they have such a limited view of God. How old is this " YOU CAN LIVE FOREVER IN PARADISE ON EARTH" book?
 
I was at the Assembly when it was first released for sale.
I purchased one of the first copies.
I believe that was in 1982.

The book was sold for years and years and years.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
By the way, if you want a copy of it, you may be able to
get it on ebay.com

Just go on to ebay, choose books,
and type in YOU CAN LIVE FOREVER IN PARADISE ON EARTH Jehovah’s Witness.
 
It’s not on ebay, but it IS available in the **ebay stores **section of ebay.

You can get copies for as little as 14 cents plus shipping.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
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