JW's views on law enforcement

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I was filling up my patrol car and a JW came over to me, struck up a conversation and handed me an* Awake* magazine. Fittingly it was titled *Will Crime Ever End *(or something along those lines). While I was speaking with this gentleman I recalled that the JWs had a doctrine/rule about joining the military. I was curious, however, as to what the JW stance is on law enforcement officers. Any JWs here who can help me out?

Thanks and God bless

 

[T_More]

I was filling up my patrol car and a JW came over to me, struck up a conversation and handed me an* Awake* magazine. Fittingly it was titled *Will Crime Ever End *(or something along those lines). While I was speaking with this gentleman I recalled that the JWs had a doctrine/rule about joining the military. I was curious, however, as to what the JW stance is on law enforcement officers. Any JWs here who can help me out?

Thanks and God bless

As a former JW, I know it was something that they frowned upon.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

As a former JW, I know it was something that they frowned upon.

T More,

Thanks for the response. Do you recall if they frowned upon officers, the profession, or JW’s wishing to become officers? Can an JW be a police officer and be in good standing with their church?

God bless

 

[Emeth]

I was filling up my patrol car and a JW came over to me, struck up a conversation and handed me an* Awake* magazine. Fittingly it was titled *Will Crime Ever End *(or something along those lines). While I was speaking with this gentleman I recalled that the JWs had a doctrine/rule about joining the military. I was curious, however, as to what the JW stance is on law enforcement officers. Any JWs here who can help me out?

Thanks and God bless

if guns are involved it hardly can be combined.

 

[Emeth]

T More,

Thanks for the response. Do you recall if they frowned upon officers, the profession, or JW’s wishing to become officers? Can an JW be a police officer and be in good standing with their church?

God bless

we dont frown upon police officers we think we need them and we need to obey them

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

if guns are involved it hardly can be combined.

Emeth,

Thank you but can you clarify what ‘it’ is in your response? JW and law enforcement?

God bless

 

[Yerusalyim]

A JW would be disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for becoming a cop.

 

[Emeth]

Emeth,

Thank you but can you clarify what ‘it’ is in your response? JW and law enforcement?

God bless

for example becoming an armed police officer

 

[Emeth]

A JW would be disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for becoming a cop.

well first of all they dont become police officers so your statement is hypothetical

second… they could be,… for example as they work behind a desk at the police station

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

A JW would be disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for becoming a cop.

Ouch. Is this an official position or can it vary from congregation to congragation? Do you know of a specific example of this happening?

Can anyone provide me a basis for this belief from a JW source?

Thanks and God bless

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

for example becoming an armed police officer

I am not aware of any unarmed police officers. Even in England where officers don’t carry a gun I do believe they are expected to know how to use one and be ready to use one should a situation arise that one is needed.

Are you speaking about positions such as dispatchers and secretaries? Keep in mind these would not be sworn officers though they are vital to any police department.

God bless

 

[Emeth]

Ouch. Is this an official position or can it vary from congregation to congragation? Do you know of a specific example of this happening?

Can anyone provide me a basis for this belief from a JW source?

Thanks and God bless

all our teachings are universal… we worship in Unity in over 236 countries and territories.

However the info Yerusalyim provided you with was not correct

for example the Watchtower Magazine English version of July 15th 1983 is talking about this subject

---

If someone has employment that involves carrying a weapon for use against other humans, or if he is required to be trained in the martial arts, such as judo and karate, what should he do? In making his personal decision he must bear in mind that a follower of Jesus is to pursue peace. (Romans 12:17, 18) In view of what is stated at Isaiah 2:4, most of Jehovah’s Witnesses avoid such employment. Even though the employment may be for the purpose of protecting the public (or property) in harmony with Romans 13:4, experience has shown that there is always the danger of incurring bloodguilt by taking life with the weapon, with harm to the individual’s conscience, as well as there being a danger of injury or death to oneself due to retaliation. (Psalm 51:14; compare Numbers 35:11, 12, 22-25.) Certainly it is best to avoid such dangers by selecting employment where they do not arise.

During these “last days,” many employees are expected to carry a firearm. Bank or security guards, watchmen and policemen may even be required to do so to hold employment. But what of the Christian, who is obligated to “provide for those who are his own”? (1*Timothy 5:8) His Bible-trained viewpoint would be different from that of worldly persons, who feel free to carry such weapons and to use them as they see fit in any dangerous situation that may arise. (Ephesians 5:15-17) He will want to avoid bloodguilt, having in mind Jehovah’s viewpoint on the sanctity of blood. (Genesis 9:6; Psalm 55:23) A mature Christian should try to find unarmed employment. Some Witnesses by talking with their employer have been successful in changing to a job that does not require carrying a weapon.

As the world becomes increasingly violent we can no longer regard as exemplary a brother who continues in armed employment. He could be allowed six months to make a change. If he does not make a change, he would not be in a position to hold special privileges of service and responsibility in the congregation.—1*Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:5, 6.​

 

[Yerusalyim]

all our teachings are universal… we worship in Unity in over 236 countries and territories.

However the info Yerusalyim provided you with was not correct

for example the Watchtower Magazine English version of July 15th 1983 is talking about this subject

---

If someone has employment that involves carrying a weapon for use against other humans, or if he is required to be trained in the martial arts, such as judo and karate, what should he do? In making his personal decision he must bear in mind that a follower of Jesus is to pursue peace. (Romans 12:17, 18) In view of what is stated at Isaiah 2:4, most of Jehovah’s Witnesses avoid such employment. Even though the employment may be for the purpose of protecting the public (or property) in harmony with Romans 13:4, experience has shown that there is always the danger of incurring bloodguilt by taking life with the weapon, with harm to the individual’s conscience, as well as there being a danger of injury or death to oneself due to retaliation. (Psalm 51:14; compare Numbers 35:11, 12, 22-25.) Certainly it is best to avoid such dangers by selecting employment where they do not arise.

During these “last days,” many employees are expected to carry a firearm. Bank or security guards, watchmen and policemen may even be required to do so to hold employment. But what of the Christian, who is obligated to “provide for those who are his own”? (1*Timothy 5:8) His Bible-trained viewpoint would be different from that of worldly persons, who feel free to carry such weapons and to use them as they see fit in any dangerous situation that may arise. (Ephesians 5:15-17) He will want to avoid bloodguilt, having in mind Jehovah’s viewpoint on the sanctity of blood. (Genesis 9:6; Psalm 55:23) A mature Christian should try to find unarmed employment. Some Witnesses by talking with their employer have been successful in changing to a job that does not require carrying a weapon.

As the world becomes increasingly violent we can no longer regard as exemplary a brother who continues in armed employment. He could be allowed six months to make a change. If he does not make a change, he would not be in a position to hold special privileges of service and responsibility in the congregation.—1*Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:5, 6.​

Emeth,
Show me one JW who is a cop. Just one. Inspite of what you’ve shown from the Watchtower…a pretense that it is an individual choice…it’s not. An active JW that became a cop would be taken before a Judicial Committee or considered to have disassociated himself and a Cop who became a study would not be baptized until he got a new job. The Society uses similar language for things like voting (A JW that registered to vote, much less actually voted, would be disfellowshipped)…use of blood, etc.
However, you’re incorrect in some regards…there are JWs in the Military, police forces, etc…but they aren’t active and Judicial Committees haven’t gotten around to disfellowshipping them.

Emeth, I can show you some Watchtower publications that call the pyramids “Scriptures in stone” does the Society still teach that?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

all our teachings are universal… we worship in Unity in over 236 countries and territories.

However the info Yerusalyim provided you with was not correct

for example the Watchtower Magazine English version of July 15th 1983 is talking about this subject

---

If someone has employment that involves carrying a weapon for use against other humans, or if he is required to be trained in the martial arts, such as judo and karate, what should he do? In making his personal decision he must bear in mind that a follower of Jesus is to pursue peace. (Romans 12:17, 18) In view of what is stated at Isaiah 2:4, most of Jehovah’s Witnesses avoid such employment. Even though the employment may be for the purpose of protecting the public (or property) in harmony with Romans 13:4, experience has shown that there is always the danger of incurring bloodguilt by taking life with the weapon, with harm to the individual’s conscience, as well as there being a danger of injury or death to oneself due to retaliation. (Psalm 51:14; compare Numbers 35:11, 12, 22-25.) Certainly it is best to avoid such dangers by selecting employment where they do not arise.

During these “last days,” many employees are expected to carry a firearm. Bank or security guards, watchmen and policemen may even be required to do so to hold employment. But what of the Christian, who is obligated to “provide for those who are his own”? (1*Timothy 5:8) His Bible-trained viewpoint would be different from that of worldly persons, who feel free to carry such weapons and to use them as they see fit in any dangerous situation that may arise. (Ephesians 5:15-17) He will want to avoid bloodguilt, having in mind Jehovah’s viewpoint on the sanctity of blood. (Genesis 9:6; Psalm 55:23) A mature Christian should try to find unarmed employment. Some Witnesses by talking with their employer have been successful in changing to a job that does not require carrying a weapon.

** As the world becomes increasingly violent we can no longer regard as exemplary a brother who continues in armed employment. He could be allowed six months to make a change. If he does not make a change, he would not be in a position to hold special privileges of service and responsibility in the congregation.—1*Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:5, 6**.​

Interesting. Thanks for the reposne. However I do not see that Yerusalyim was incorrect with his/her response. The last paragraph I bolded certainly sounds along the lines of what Yerusalyim had started. Can you explain what the difference would be between “disfellowship” which is what Yerusalyim had stated would happen and not being able to be in, “a position to hold special privileges of service and responsibility in the congregation” that the source you provided stated would happen?

God bless

 

[Emeth]

Emeth,
Show me one JW who is a cop. Just one. Inspite of what you’ve shown from the Watchtower…a pretense that it is an individual choice…it’s not. An active JW that became a cop would be taken before a Judicial Committee or considered to have disassociated himself

i did not say there were any JW’s cops… instead of that i talked about you being ‘hypothetical’

besides of that … if your are right how come that this is in the watchtower?

He could be allowed six months to make a change. If he does not make a change, he would not be in a position to hold special privileges of service and responsibility in the congregation

furthermore if you think that is incorrect let me see the ‘new light’ please

 

[Emeth]

Interesting. Thanks for the reposne. However I do not see that Yerusalyim was incorrect with his/her response. The last paragraph I bolded certainly sounds along the lines of what Yerusalyim had started. Can you explain what the difference would be between “disfellowship” which is what Yerusalyim had stated would happen and not being able to be in, “a position to hold special privileges of service and responsibility in the congregation” that the source you provided stated would happen?

God bless

the bold print is talking about the following… we Jehovah’s witnesses have no clergy and lay men.

So within our congregation brothers are appointed to do certain tasks or be elder… or do public talks in the congregation etc etc

So when you are not a good example for the congregation you cant get the priviledge to become elder… do public talks… manage certain tasks etc etc but you still will be part of the congregation.

On the other hand the same happens if I decide to grow my hair long and stop visiting the hairdresser… or if i neglect my family and dont support my wife at home… etc etc

if my english looks funny and has sometimes mistakes its because i am Dutch

 

[Yerusalyim]

While unpaid the Elders of the JW sect are indeed “clergy”

A brother would be disqualified as an elder, a ministerial
servant, or a pioneer if he took up the study of such
martial arts and practiced them.
A person publicly advocating such could be dealt with in
line with 2 Thessalonians 3:13-15.
As in the case of a person who takes up professional
boxing and continues in such a course, he would be
expelled from the congregation. (w81 7/1 PP. 30-1)

by the very nature of what a police officer does a JW couldn’t be a cop and still be in good standing with the congregation…in other words, he’d be disfellowshipped. The Elder’s Manual calls it "Caesar’s law, ergo to be an enforce of that law would violate the suppossed neutrality of the

If the elders learn of illegal activity or of some serious
crime on the part of a member of the congregation, they
may not be obliged by law to report the offender or the
offense to secular authorities.

Both the above quotes taken from the Elder’s manual.

 

[Emeth]

Both the above quotes taken from the Elder’s manual.

you understand what you did paste?

If the elders learn of illegal activity or of some serious
crime on the part of a member of the congregation, they
may not be obliged by law to report the offender or the
offense to secular authorities.

 

[yellowbird]

So when you are not a good example for the congregation you cant get the priviledge to become elder… do public talks… manage certain tasks etc etc but you still will be part of the congregation.

On the other hand the same happens if I decide to grow my hair long and stop visiting the hairdresser… or if i neglect my family and dont support my wife at home… etc etc

if my english looks funny and has sometimes mistakes its because i am Dutch

Emeth ~ Why would a JW consider a law enforcement officer to be similar as a peron who neglected his family?

And if a law enforcement officer is such a bad thing, I assume a JW would refrain from calling one if his house was vandalized or his car was stolen? Correct? Otherwise, isn’t that being hypocritical?

PS. Don’t worry about your English sounding funny. How fortunate that you speak two languages!

 

[Emeth]

Emeth ~ Why would a JW consider a law enforcement officer to be similar as a peron who neglected his family?

And if a law enforcement officer is such a bad thing, I assume a JW would refrain from calling one if his house was vandalized or his car was stolen? Correct? Otherwsie, isn’t that being hypocritical?

PS. Don’t worry about your English sounding funny. How fortunate that you speak two languages!

as a matter a fact , i speak german too

we as Jehovah’s Witnesses have to obey Gods laws and maintain a high moral standard. So i am not saying that the two examples are precisely the same. But the consequenses of not following Gods law or maintaining the moral standards are.

For example if i start smoking cigarettes and would continue with it without remorse after several talks with the elders i would be expelled from the congregation and would disqualify/disfellowship myself as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. While in the world smoking is seen as normal,… ‘nothing wrong with’

Law officers and what they do are appreciated by us as Paul is commanding us in the biblebook Romans

(Romans 13:1-7) ...Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. 2Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves. 3For those ruling are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you, then, want to have no fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; 4for it is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear: for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword; for it is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad. 5There is therefore compelling reason for YOU people to be in subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of [YOUR] conscience. 6For that is why YOU are also paying taxes; for they are God’s public servants constantly serving this very purpose. 7Render to all their dues, to him who [calls for] the tax, the tax; to him who [calls for] the tribute, the tribute; to him who [calls for] fear, such fear; to him who [calls for] honor, such honor.