JW's! Who was the "faithful and discreet slave" before the Watchtower?

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For Alan, Arius, Regardless and other JW lurkers here. Please answer this:

“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.” - Matthew 24:45-47 (New World Translation)

“Beginning with Pentecost, 33 C.E., and continuing through the 19 centuries since then, this slavelike congregation has been feeding its members spiritually.”-Watchtower 1981 Mar 1 p.24

Who was the slave for 19 centuries before Russell came along to distribute this food? What was the name of this congregation? How were they able to feed the others? By what means did they accomplish this?

Ephesians 3:20-21 (New World Translation, emphasis mine)

20 Now to the one who can, according to his power which is operating in us, do more than superabundantly beyond all the things we ask or conceive, 21 to him be the glory by means of the congregation and by means of Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.
 
T_More said:
For Alan, Arius, Regardless and other JW lurkers here. Please answer this:

“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.” - Matthew 24:45-47 (New World Translation)

“Beginning with Pentecost, 33 C.E., and continuing through the 19 centuries since then, this slavelike congregation has been feeding its members spiritually.”-Watchtower 1981 Mar 1 p.24

Who was the slave for 19 centuries before Russell came along to distribute this food? What was the name of this congregation? How were they able to feed the others? By what means did they accomplish this?

Ephesians 3:20-21 (New World Translation, emphasis mine)

20 Now to the one who can, according to his power which is operating in us, do more than superabundantly beyond all the things we ask or conceive, 21 to him be the glory by means of the congregation and by means of Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.
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JW’s are quick to point out that there have been JW “true” believers throughout history, but are slow to produce a list.
 
mark_a said:
JW’s are quick to point out that there have been JW “true” believers throughout history, but are slow to produce a list.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we’re still waiting ever since they made that comment.
 
I can only assume that Arius and others cannot provide “empirical data” to show how the governing body of JW’s are the faithful & discreet slave that has been feeding it’s members since the time of Christ.

I have asked for their proof in other threads and I have started this thread so they could connect the dots for everyone, from Russell all the way back to the Apostles and Christ Himself in an unbroken line of passing the true faith from one generation to the next.

Is this an unreasonable request? Am I asking too much?
 
T_More said:
I can only assume that Arius and others cannot provide “empirical data” to show how the governing body of JW’s are the faithful & discreet slave that has been feeding it’s members since the time of Christ.

I have asked for their proof in other threads and I have started this thread so they could connect the dots for everyone, from Russell all the way back to the Apostles and Christ Himself in an unbroken line of passing the true faith from one generation to the next.

Is this an unreasonable request? Am I asking too much?
Click to expand...
T More,

I have learned that when dealing with historical matters,JW’s are the most disingenious group of people. They love to take others words and present a false message,they are masters at it. I remember while serving in the military while stationed at AZ, I came across a JW article stating that St.Augustine had taught the Mass was pagan and heretical? :eek: I was so shocked to read such nonsense and a flat out…LIE!
 
Nicea325 said:
T More,

I have learned that when dealing with historical matters,JW’s are the most disingenious group of people. They love to take others words and present a false message,they are masters at it. I remember while serving in the military while stationed at AZ, I came across a JW article stating that St.Augustine had taught the Mass was pagan and heretical? :eek: I was so shocked to read such nonsense and a flat out…LIE!
Click to expand...
And what is worse, they don’t question but believe everything they are told. If they disagree they are told to readjust their thinking.
They are to be prayed for to see the lie of Watchtower and the real truth of Jesus.
 
Phyllo said:
And what is worse, they don’t question but believe everything they are told. If they disagree they are told to readjust their thinking.
They are to be prayed for to see the lie of Watchtower and the real truth of Jesus.
Click to expand...
Oh definitely! I had an ex-roommate who is a JW. :ouch: The stuff he told me at times was unbelievable and the worse part? He believed the JW sect! :doh2:
 
Nicea325 said:
T More,

I have learned that when dealing with historical matters,JW’s are the most disingenious group of people. They love to take others words and present a false message,they are masters at it. I remember while serving in the military while stationed at AZ, I came across a JW article stating that St.Augustine had taught the Mass was pagan and heretical? :eek: I was so shocked to read such nonsense and a flat out…LIE!
Click to expand...
Thank you for service Nicea :blessyou:

It is rather interesting why a group of people would rather construct lies and misinformation to discredit others and self-validate themselves. You would think upon learning that the “truths” you were being fed are lies, they’d run and search for real truth. This why, as T More and I have conversed time and time again, a lot of ex-JWs become almost anti-God or extreme agnostic and think truth can never be found. Especially being fed that real truth, The Deposit of Faith of the Catholic Church, is the ant-Christ all your life, “the whore of Babylon”.

Another point to raise about the subject of “where was truth” or where was the Holy Spirit before Russell, is that once something is lost or tarnished it can never be found or perfected again. A point T More showed me through an article Tom Cabeen wrote. This point can be used against any denomination outside The Church, which is why most all believe in Sola Fide and become relativists. There are three points I’d like to present why this is not the case, and truth can be found in the confines of Christianity.

One, though cetainly God is able to do all things and is perfectly able to revitalize the whole being of truth in any age, but I declare Ockam’s Razor here and assert the more simple assumption that truth survived all these years is the reality.

Secondly, it would seem though if truth was lost or “tarnished” that this is an indirect proclamation that Satan’s will is stronger then God’s will, man’s will is stronger then God’s, or God willed truth to be lost. Any history fan will not deny the parallel of Catharism in present day modernism. If this be the case, this leads to the third point.

Thirdly, if truth was lost it would seem the God of Jewish/Christian Scriptures is not the universal God. For if truth was lost, it would mean this was either intended or was unable to prevent it. Certainly this can boil down to C.S. Lewis’s Trilemma, but a more philosophical emphasis can be used. In St. Aquinas philosophy, it is logically assumed the pure actual being (God) caused things outside of Himself unnecessarily but eternally willed to create beings. To what end? Is the nature of agape love of this being ends with act of creation, or continue with sharing itself own existence with others, literally? It would seem the logical conclusion that this being is the perfection of goodness and love, and the purest form of love, I would argue, is how St. Francis of Assisi emphasized on being poor of the self to the point that one is giving the self completely to others at all times. If this pure actual being is this perfection of this nature, I would urge all to search for the truth that emphasizes on the belief that God gives Himself to his created beings completely, a Communion.

This is also why the modern culture has become anti-answer and pro-question. Most contemplate the menu and not enjoy the meal. This leads to a fork in the road mental state, either truth cannot be found / is not meant to be found or there is no truth. Certainly a very egocentric mentality as well that if truth is present, alive, and definitive it would also mean there are those who do not practice it, and being the modern age is fearful of political incorrectness, it dares not assert someone is wrong of what they believe. So it is now a general consensus that everyone can be an island and survive and declare self-truth and claim to know “what is right” for the individual. I wonder why these individualistic humanists agree with one another, pun to those that get the joke. Again, Ockam’s Razor, the more simple assumption is that the nature of multiplicity of beings is to be one, which is why Our Lord prayed for “oneness” for us.

Ok, my rant is done 😛
 
Trevor_Stamm said:
Thank you for service Nicea :blessyou:

It is rather interesting why a group of people would rather construct lies and misinformation to discredit others and self-validate themselves. You would think upon learning that the “truths” you were being fed are lies, they’d run and search for real truth. This why, as T More and I have conversed time and time again, a lot of ex-JWs become almost anti-God or extreme agnostic and think truth can never be found. Especially being fed that real truth, The Deposit of Faith of the Catholic Church, is the ant-Christ all your life, “the whore of Babylon”.

Another point to raise about the subject of “where was truth” or where was the Holy Spirit before Russell, is that once something is lost or tarnished it can never be found or perfected again. A point T More showed me through an article Tom Cabeen wrote. This point can be used against any denomination outside The Church, which is why most all believe in Sola Fide and become relativists. There are three points I’d like to present why this is not the case, and truth can be found in the confines of Christianity.

One, though cetainly God is able to do all things and is perfectly able to revitalize the whole being of truth in any age, but I declare Ockam’s Razor here and assert the more simple assumption that truth survived all these years is the reality.

Secondly, it would seem though if truth was lost or “tarnished” that this is an indirect proclamation that Satan’s will is stronger then God’s will, man’s will is stronger then God’s, or God willed truth to be lost. Any history fan will not deny the parallel of Catharism in present day modernism. If this be the case, this leads to the third point.

Thirdly, if truth was lost it would seem the God of Jewish/Christian Scriptures is not the universal God. For if truth was lost, it would mean this was either intended or was unable to prevent it. Certainly this can boil down to C.S. Lewis’s Trilemma, but a more philosophical emphasis can be used. In St. Aquinas philosophy, it is logically assumed the pure actual being (God) caused things outside of Himself unnecessarily but eternally willed to create beings. To what end? Is the nature of agape love of this being ends with act of creation, or continue with sharing itself own existence with others, literally? It would seem the logical conclusion that this being is the perfection of goodness and love, and the purest form of love, I would argue, is how St. Francis of Assisi emphasized on being poor of the self to the point that one is giving the self completely to others at all times. If this pure actual being is this perfection of this nature, I would urge all to search for the truth that emphasizes on the belief that God gives Himself to his created beings completely, a Communion.

This is also why the modern culture has become anti-answer and pro-question. Most contemplate the menu and not enjoy the meal. This leads to a fork in the road mental state, either truth cannot be found / is not meant to be found or there is no truth. Certainly a very egocentric mentality as well that if truth is present, alive, and definitive it would also mean there are those who do not practice it, and being the modern age is fearful of political incorrectness, it dares not assert someone is wrong of what they believe. So it is now a general consensus that everyone can be an island and survive and declare self-truth and claim to know “what is right” for the individual. I wonder why these individualistic humanists agree with one another, pun to those that get the joke. Again, Ockam’s Razor, the more simple assumption is that the nature of multiplicity of beings is to be one, which is why Our Lord prayed for “oneness” for us.

Ok, my rant is done 😛
Click to expand...
Thank you very much. It was an honor to serve our country. U.S. Air Force 1992-2002, Captain. 👍
 
Trevor_Stamm said:
Thank you for service Nicea :blessyou:

It is rather interesting why a group of people would rather construct lies and misinformation to discredit others and self-validate themselves. You would think upon learning that the “truths” you were being fed are lies, they’d run and search for real truth. This why, as T More and I have conversed time and time again, a lot of ex-JWs become almost anti-God or extreme agnostic and think truth can never be found. Especially being fed that real truth, The Deposit of Faith of the Catholic Church, is the ant-Christ all your life, “the whore of Babylon”.

Another point to raise about the subject of “where was truth” or where was the Holy Spirit before Russell, is that once something is lost or tarnished it can never be found or perfected again. A point T More showed me through an article Tom Cabeen wrote. This point can be used against any denomination outside The Church, which is why most all believe in Sola Fide and become relativists. There are three points I’d like to present why this is not the case, and truth can be found in the confines of Christianity.

One, though cetainly God is able to do all things and is perfectly able to revitalize the whole being of truth in any age, but I declare Ockam’s Razor here and assert the more simple assumption that truth survived all these years is the reality.

Secondly, it would seem though if truth was lost or “tarnished” that this is an indirect proclamation that Satan’s will is stronger then God’s will, man’s will is stronger then God’s, or God willed truth to be lost. Any history fan will not deny the parallel of Catharism in present day modernism. If this be the case, this leads to the third point.

Thirdly, if truth was lost it would seem the God of Jewish/Christian Scriptures is not the universal God. For if truth was lost, it would mean this was either intended or was unable to prevent it. Certainly this can boil down to C.S. Lewis’s Trilemma, but a more philosophical emphasis can be used. In St. Aquinas philosophy, it is logically assumed the pure actual being (God) caused things outside of Himself unnecessarily but eternally willed to create beings. To what end? Is the nature of agape love of this being ends with act of creation, or continue with sharing itself own existence with others, literally? It would seem the logical conclusion that this being is the perfection of goodness and love, and the purest form of love, I would argue, is how St. Francis of Assisi emphasized on being poor of the self to the point that one is giving the self completely to others at all times. If this pure actual being is this perfection of this nature, I would urge all to search for the truth that emphasizes on the belief that God gives Himself to his created beings completely, a Communion.

This is also why the modern culture has become anti-answer and pro-question. Most contemplate the menu and not enjoy the meal. This leads to a fork in the road mental state, either truth cannot be found / is not meant to be found or there is no truth. Certainly a very egocentric mentality as well that if truth is present, alive, and definitive it would also mean there are those who do not practice it, and being the modern age is fearful of political incorrectness, it dares not assert someone is wrong of what they believe. So it is now a general consensus that everyone can be an island and survive and declare self-truth and claim to know “what is right” for the individual. I wonder why these individualistic humanists agree with one another, pun to those that get the joke. Again, Ockam’s Razor, the more simple assumption is that the nature of multiplicity of beings is to be one, which is why Our Lord prayed for “oneness” for us.

Ok, my rant is done 😛
Click to expand...
👍👍👍

And a nice rant at that. Thank you and may

God bless you

jesus g
 
mark_a said:
JW’s are quick to point out that there have been JW “true” believers throughout history, but are slow to produce a list.
Click to expand...
I read an essay and really, it said in the days after Christ, those theologies came up, Sebellianism and the other one, I forget the name, they were back in those days and they are still with us?? So??? In a way, they have been around ‘some’ historically, I don’t know about the Middle Ages though and those eras.
 
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