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paramedicgirl
Guest
I wonder about karate. They believe in an inner spirit, and since my daughter has expressed an interest in karate, can anyone tell me if there are similar spiritual dangers as there are in yoga? Any web links??
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paulCT
Guest
I could not find any articles in which the Catholic Church denounces karate per se. As a sport, I think there’s nothing wrong with it.
I find this article in Texas Catholic that seemed interesting. I think as long as you help channel the “inner spirit” towards Jesus, it should be find. You may want to seek guidance from your parish priest as well.
If I come across something specific, I’ll let you know.
I find this article in Texas Catholic that seemed interesting. I think as long as you help channel the “inner spirit” towards Jesus, it should be find. You may want to seek guidance from your parish priest as well.
If I come across something specific, I’ll let you know.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Thanks paul CT for the web link. The article was interesting. I guess my main concern about karate is that alarm bells went off when I heard about the “inner spirit”. I hope they don’t “pray” to this inner spirit or meditate to it as I heard they do in yoga.
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Arlene
Guest
My daughter has been taking karate for 3+ years. She practices a form called Kajukenbo. It is a mixture of several arts and was started in Hawaii. It is a Christian art form, and they begin each workout with a prayer, but it is a prayer to Christ.
Almighty and eternal God
protector of all those who put their trust in Thee
protect this humble homage
to our faith and love in Thee
The One True God.
Bless us in our efforts
to preserve the integrity of the United States
a nation found upon Christian principles
Enlighten our rules
Guide our lawmakers
Proctect the sanctity of our homes.
And bless our efforts in these excercises
whose sole purpose is developing our bodies
to keep others mindful of Thy commandments
Give us perseverence in our actions
so we may use this as means to be closer to YOU.
The one true God.
Name of God, beloved Son, Jesus Christ our Lord
Amen
See if you can find a Kajukenbo dojo. Karate has been awesome for my daughter.
Arlene
Almighty and eternal God
protector of all those who put their trust in Thee
protect this humble homage
to our faith and love in Thee
The One True God.
Bless us in our efforts
to preserve the integrity of the United States
a nation found upon Christian principles
Enlighten our rules
Guide our lawmakers
Proctect the sanctity of our homes.
And bless our efforts in these excercises
whose sole purpose is developing our bodies
to keep others mindful of Thy commandments
Give us perseverence in our actions
so we may use this as means to be closer to YOU.
The one true God.
Name of God, beloved Son, Jesus Christ our Lord
Amen
See if you can find a Kajukenbo dojo. Karate has been awesome for my daughter.
Arlene
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Peace-bwu
Guest
My eight year old daughter has been taking Karate since she was four and is a brown belt. Her Karate Sensei and his wife, both owners and teachers at the Karate Academy are members of the Catholic Parish in town. They are truly wonderful role models for the children strict yet fair and encouraging. My 5 yr old son is taking it this year too. I know they teach breathing relaxation exercises and meditation relaxation, but my daughter has been saying she wants to be a sister of divine mercy for over two years, so I don’t think it has negatively impacted her Catholic faith.
I would take caution though. If the sensi were Buddhist or into New Age religion, he would be coming from a different perspective than a Catholic who teaches Karate. This may or may not make a difference. There are children from all creeds and races in the classes, including an Islamic child whose mother wears the traditional black head covering and robes, only her face and hands show, so the Sensei doesn’t seem to influence the children in a realigious way.
Karate has been wonderful for my children. It is a real character builder, confidence builder, terrific exercise, good for memorization, performing in frong of others, learning how to use constructive criticism, that if they make a mistake it isnt’ the end of the world and they just keep trying until they get it right then still keep doing it. They are expected to treat others with respect, they learn to speak some Japanese words and about some of the cultural traditions. A child of nearly every physical level can succeed in Karate because they go at their own pace. There are also children with neurological / motor skill developmental problems and a child with Downs Syndrom in my daughter’s class. He is around 13. That is another great thing, they learn to work with kids of all different ages. They have opportunities to teach others, and learn from others.
Karate can be intimidating to many children at first but if they stick with it, they get into the groove and start to relax and enjoy.
My children take Issinryu Karate. It is a newer form that is supposed to be easier on the joints and arms.
I would take caution though. If the sensi were Buddhist or into New Age religion, he would be coming from a different perspective than a Catholic who teaches Karate. This may or may not make a difference. There are children from all creeds and races in the classes, including an Islamic child whose mother wears the traditional black head covering and robes, only her face and hands show, so the Sensei doesn’t seem to influence the children in a realigious way.
Karate has been wonderful for my children. It is a real character builder, confidence builder, terrific exercise, good for memorization, performing in frong of others, learning how to use constructive criticism, that if they make a mistake it isnt’ the end of the world and they just keep trying until they get it right then still keep doing it. They are expected to treat others with respect, they learn to speak some Japanese words and about some of the cultural traditions. A child of nearly every physical level can succeed in Karate because they go at their own pace. There are also children with neurological / motor skill developmental problems and a child with Downs Syndrom in my daughter’s class. He is around 13. That is another great thing, they learn to work with kids of all different ages. They have opportunities to teach others, and learn from others.
Karate can be intimidating to many children at first but if they stick with it, they get into the groove and start to relax and enjoy.
My children take Issinryu Karate. It is a newer form that is supposed to be easier on the joints and arms.
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Peace-bwu
Guest
Wow, I didnt know this was available! We might be moving to HA within a two years. I wonder how hard it would be to cross over form the style my children are already training in?
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Thanks for the info Arlene. That sounds like something that would really ease my worries! We live in such a small town I doubt it is available here. You are so fortunate to have found that.
We have only 1 karate instructor and he said he is not used to having parents inquire about the religious aspect of the sport. He said there is an inner spirit they believe in and they begin each session by saying about 8 lines that express self confidence and integrity.
Maybe I will sit in on a session to see what it is they do.
We have only 1 karate instructor and he said he is not used to having parents inquire about the religious aspect of the sport. He said there is an inner spirit they believe in and they begin each session by saying about 8 lines that express self confidence and integrity.
Maybe I will sit in on a session to see what it is they do.
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Arlene
Guest
Our dojo allows a 2 week free trial period. Take your daughter and watch to make sure there is nothing you object to. My daughter finishes her workouts by doing a relaxation, visualization exercise, but I really don’t see anything wrong with it. Instilling self confidence is one of the benefits of martial arts.
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KCT
Guest
It depends on who operates the school. When we went to observe at what became our school, I was shocked when the instructor ended class by saying, “God bless you guys!” I looked around to see the reaction and no one batted an eyelash.
The school is owned and operated by a wonderful, Catholic family and is very family oriented. One instructor became my daughter’s Confirmation sponsor
If possible, look around until you find a place you like. We’re thrilled to have found our school. The main instructor’s brother was ordained in '99 and the whole school was invited to his first Mass and celebration afterward. Many families have converted because of this family. God can use anyone for his purposes. —KCT (mom of 3 black belts)
The school is owned and operated by a wonderful, Catholic family and is very family oriented. One instructor became my daughter’s Confirmation sponsor
If possible, look around until you find a place you like. We’re thrilled to have found our school. The main instructor’s brother was ordained in '99 and the whole school was invited to his first Mass and celebration afterward. Many families have converted because of this family. God can use anyone for his purposes. —KCT (mom of 3 black belts)
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Dmollis2005
Guest
Hello, I am DMollis2005 and I had what I believe is a paranormal experience with the holy spirit. Otherwise an encounter with it. I was practicing karate, then meditated for about half an hour in prayer to God and the Holy Trinity, then it happened. I had experienced something yet to be explained. What happened was that everything grayed out, emotions vanished and an almost eeire bliss had filled me. I haven’t told anyone this after the post I put up, but after that, everything went neutral. Freaked out I stopped and started thinking about it. I had at this time claimed I was a buddhist, but soon realizing that it was an eye-opener I thought about it and realized that Catholicism was very important to my life, and always has been. I then stopped claiming my buddhism, and pledged full catholic. You see, what I didn’t say was that I would pray to the trinity while doing this. I think it was that I was in reverence about God’s gifts that I gained a new perspective on my religious self. Since then, I haven’t been the same since. I guess it can considered a prayer to God.
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Petergee
Guest
I would be more concerned with the inappropriateness of training children in any kind of “martial art” (including “Western” ones like boxing) when Christ told us to be peacemakers and to “turn the other cheek” to those who strike us. There are plenty of other non-violent ways of giving kids exercise, discipline, respect, and knowledge of different cultures.
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Arlene
Guest
So when your child gets grabbed by some child molesting pervert, you would want them to “turn the other cheek”?
Thanks, but I am very happy that my child will know where to strike, pinch, poke, kick, throw him off balance and run.
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Petergee
Guest
There’s nothing wrong with proportionate self-defence, but the vast majority of “martial arts” schools go way beyond that, to encouraging aggression and violence.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Petergee, have you based your statement on reasearch of these institutions? Or is it your own opinion? I wonder, because my brother has a black belt in Gung-Fu and he was told to never use it to intimidate or hurt another person. There was never any violence obvious in his attitude of his sport.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
This is the kind of experience that alarms me. I know you said your encounter was with the Holy Spirit and for that you are blessed.
I think it could be just as possible for that type of encounter to happen with the devil when people have been taught to meditate on an inner spirit and visualize, opening their minds to dark forces. I see red flags when teachers use either technique with students.
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Peace-bwu
Guest
Being a peace maker and turning the other cheek doesn’t meant that you cannot protect yourself or the people around you. I see my daugher and son’s training, in part, as a way to protect themselves if they are attacked by someone with an evil intent. My daughter has been saying that she wants to be a missionary for a few years and possibly a nun. Who knows where a nun with marshall arts training could be led to protect the innocent. If her vocation is wife and mother, perhaps she could prevent an attack on her children or a rape. You have to understand what “turn the other cheek” meant in the time of Christ. It didn’t mean to let anyone who wanted to beat you up to beat you up. It had a different meaning in that culture. If someone slapped you and you turned the other cheek it was a way of showing them their own faults and would have been an insult to themselves for their actions. This isn’t true in our culture. A preditor who hurts another person in our culture would simply see you as an easy target with no remorse for their actions, because their intent was an easy target. You could possibly use the “turn the other cheek” method on a family member or friend who actually cares about you and it would have the same effect as it would have in the time and place of Jesus.
The first thing Karate kids are taught is to avoid physical confrontation and only use their Karate as a last resort to protect themselves. Their sensei is very good at teaching them how to do this. If confronted by a bully they are to get in a protective stance and say very loudly, “I dont want any trouble here, I don’t want to fight.” If a fight does occur they are taught to block the punches from the other student. When it comes to an adult attacker, they are taught to run away and only use their escape techniques if they are unable to run away. Even when they are forced to use Karate in real life, they are trained to use techniques that do as little damage as possible in order to get away.
The first rule of Karate is to use it only in self defense after attempts to avoid conflict are unsuccessful. Should a child not be taught to fight for their lives if they are attacked by a child rapist?
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Peace-bwu
Guest
Can you name some schools in particular? I would like to contact the sensei of those schools to ask what form of martial arts they teach, and who their teachers were. I would like to inform myself on these bad marshall arts dojos you have encountered so that I can avoid them.
Are you making uninformed generalizations in assuming this, or have you had actual experience with this kind of behavior?
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Peace-bwu
Guest
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Question from on 05-14-2002: When Christ tells us to turn the other cheek, does this prevent us from defending other people? Christ does say to love thy neighbor as thyself, and it seems to me that this would mean defending these neighbors from attack. However, if we are to love others as we love ourself, and we are told by Christ to turn the other cheek, and we would want to do this in order to love ourselves and provide for our supernatural end, should we not also not defend other people in order thay they may turn the other cheek and thereby love themselves? Answer by Fr. John Echert on 05-15-2002: No, in fact, in certain positions, a person has the obligation to defend others. This would include the parents of a child, members of the military in a just war, police officers in the line of duty, and even a stranger protecting the innocent. Those who would unjustly take life of the innocent often forfeit a right to their own life in order to stop their action. Thanks, Kevin Father Echert
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Peace-bwu
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Pacifism?
Question from on 04-10-2003: Father Echert,
The night before His Passion, when Jesus went to the Garden of Gethsemane, Peter wore a sword at his side (John 18:10). I know that Jesus rebuked Peter for cutting off the soldier’s ear and healed him (John 18:10) for He had to fulfill the scriptures, but I do not understand why He did not tell Peter that he should not have been even wearing one if he was NEVER EVER to use it even in just causes or defensively. Also, in Luke 22, he says in His instructions for the time of the coming crisis that whoever does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one. I guess what I am trying to say is that there are those who want us to turn the other cheek in every situation (I particularly hear this in the ongoing criticisms about the Iraqi war). Pacifism is not the answer as despots would rule everywhere for there will always be evil and corrupt people wanting to conquer and dominate. And there are those who are beyond “dialoging” for peace. God bless you and all our men and women in service. We are deeply indebted to you all. Phyllis Armeli
Answer by Fr. John Echert on 04-10-2003: Though it was not appropriate to use violence to stop the divine plan of allowing the Crucifixion of Christ, by which the world could be redeemed, such does not apply universally to every situation and circumstance, as you note. Civil authorities properly wage war, not apostles.
There is nothing in the New Testament which would preclude the right and even obligation of a person—including a Christian—from supporting or participating in a just war. St. Luke records an exchange between soldiers and the Baptist, in which St. John did NOT tell the soldiers to leave their posts but rather to avoid any abuses in their occupation:
3:14 Soldiers also asked him, “And we, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Rob no one by violence or by false accusation, and be content with your wages.”
Though individual Christians do not have the right to take personal vengeance upon an enemy, a society is allowed to resort to violence if necessary to maintain order and to protect itself and legitimate interests. This is affirmed by the New Testament, as we read in what St. Paul wrote in his letter to the Christians at Rome:
13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 13:2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 13:4 for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer. 13:5 Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 13:6 For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 13:7 Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due. The “sword” of which St. Paul writes regards the means by which a civil authority may act for the good of the social order. Obviously the “sword” or any modern weapons may not be used indiscriminately and, in fact, there are standards and conditions long accepted by civil societies and approved by the Church as to when a legitimate authority may resort to violence. Here follows the teaching of the Catechism on war:
III. SAFEGUARDING PEACE
Peace 2302 By recalling the commandment, “You shall not kill,”[93] our Lord asked for peace of heart and denounced murderous anger and hatred as immoral. 1765 Anger is a desire for revenge. “To desire vengeance in order to do evil to someone who should be punished is illicit,” but it is praiseworthy to impose restitution “to correct vices and maintain justice.”[94] If anger reaches the point of a deliberate desire to kill or seriously wound a neighbor, it is gravely against charity; it is a mortal sin. The Lord says, “Everyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment.”[95]
Question from on 04-10-2003: Father Echert,
The night before His Passion, when Jesus went to the Garden of Gethsemane, Peter wore a sword at his side (John 18:10). I know that Jesus rebuked Peter for cutting off the soldier’s ear and healed him (John 18:10) for He had to fulfill the scriptures, but I do not understand why He did not tell Peter that he should not have been even wearing one if he was NEVER EVER to use it even in just causes or defensively. Also, in Luke 22, he says in His instructions for the time of the coming crisis that whoever does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one. I guess what I am trying to say is that there are those who want us to turn the other cheek in every situation (I particularly hear this in the ongoing criticisms about the Iraqi war). Pacifism is not the answer as despots would rule everywhere for there will always be evil and corrupt people wanting to conquer and dominate. And there are those who are beyond “dialoging” for peace. God bless you and all our men and women in service. We are deeply indebted to you all. Phyllis Armeli
Answer by Fr. John Echert on 04-10-2003: Though it was not appropriate to use violence to stop the divine plan of allowing the Crucifixion of Christ, by which the world could be redeemed, such does not apply universally to every situation and circumstance, as you note. Civil authorities properly wage war, not apostles.
There is nothing in the New Testament which would preclude the right and even obligation of a person—including a Christian—from supporting or participating in a just war. St. Luke records an exchange between soldiers and the Baptist, in which St. John did NOT tell the soldiers to leave their posts but rather to avoid any abuses in their occupation:
3:14 Soldiers also asked him, “And we, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Rob no one by violence or by false accusation, and be content with your wages.”
Though individual Christians do not have the right to take personal vengeance upon an enemy, a society is allowed to resort to violence if necessary to maintain order and to protect itself and legitimate interests. This is affirmed by the New Testament, as we read in what St. Paul wrote in his letter to the Christians at Rome:
13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 13:2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 13:4 for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer. 13:5 Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 13:6 For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 13:7 Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due. The “sword” of which St. Paul writes regards the means by which a civil authority may act for the good of the social order. Obviously the “sword” or any modern weapons may not be used indiscriminately and, in fact, there are standards and conditions long accepted by civil societies and approved by the Church as to when a legitimate authority may resort to violence. Here follows the teaching of the Catechism on war:
III. SAFEGUARDING PEACE
Peace 2302 By recalling the commandment, “You shall not kill,”[93] our Lord asked for peace of heart and denounced murderous anger and hatred as immoral. 1765 Anger is a desire for revenge. “To desire vengeance in order to do evil to someone who should be punished is illicit,” but it is praiseworthy to impose restitution “to correct vices and maintain justice.”[94] If anger reaches the point of a deliberate desire to kill or seriously wound a neighbor, it is gravely against charity; it is a mortal sin. The Lord says, “Everyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment.”[95]
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Peace-bwu
Guest
**What is Karate?
********“True karate is this: that in daily life one’s mind and body be trained and developed in a spirit of humility, and that in critical times, one be devoted utterly to the cause of justice.”
– Gichin Funakoshi
Certainly Karate is a skill, or tool, that could be used by a Christian to protect the innocent, and to promote peace and justice.
PLEASE refrain from jumping to judgement about parents who want their children to be trained in Karate. If you read my other posts you would see how careful I am with what my children are exposed to. Sometimes it is easy to assume. I have already studied this in length before I decided to have my children trained in Karate, as we are devout Catholics who homeschool our children by an accredited Catholic homeschool.
********“True karate is this: that in daily life one’s mind and body be trained and developed in a spirit of humility, and that in critical times, one be devoted utterly to the cause of justice.”
– Gichin Funakoshi
Certainly Karate is a skill, or tool, that could be used by a Christian to protect the innocent, and to promote peace and justice.
PLEASE refrain from jumping to judgement about parents who want their children to be trained in Karate. If you read my other posts you would see how careful I am with what my children are exposed to. Sometimes it is easy to assume. I have already studied this in length before I decided to have my children trained in Karate, as we are devout Catholics who homeschool our children by an accredited Catholic homeschool.
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