Karate Spiritually Dangerous?

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Here is a link to an excellent answer to this question, although it pertains mainly to the war in Iraq, It gives a good answer to the criticism of whether it is wrong to teach children in Karate, as it is not teaching them to “turn the other cheek.”

Father Echert,

The night before His Passion, when Jesus went to the Garden of Gethsemane, Peter wore a sword at his side (John 18:10). I know that Jesus rebuked Peter for cutting off the soldier’s ear and healed him (John 18:10) for He had to fulfill the scriptures, but I do not understand why He did not tell Peter that he should not have been even wearing one if he was NEVER EVER to use it even in just causes or defensively. Also, in Luke 22, he says in His instructions for the time of the coming crisis that whoever does not have a sword should sell his cloak and buy one. I guess what I am trying to say is that there are those who want us to turn the other cheek in every situation (I particularly hear this in the ongoing criticisms about the Iraqi war). Pacifism is not the answer as despots would rule everywhere for there will always be evil and corrupt people wanting to conquer and dominate. And there are those who are beyond “dialoging” for peace. God bless you and all our men and women in service. We are deeply indebted to you all. Phyllis Armeli
 
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Petergee:
There’s nothing wrong with proportionate self-defence, but the vast majority of “martial arts” schools go way beyond that, to encouraging aggression and violence.
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I would also be interested in knowing which specific schools teach this. My experience is exactly the opposite, that you are to avoid aggression and violence. The best fight is the one that never starts.

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My two older children are learning karate, but they’re learning it from a family friend. (Our life doesn’t allow for dojos, really).

He confided the following to me one evening over a bottle of wine (maybe a couple bottles, but certainly no more than four, and you can’t prove otherwise.)

“Karate is not about violence. It is about attaining mastery of your body and mastery of situations. Karate teaches you how to achieve perfect physical control and identify the perfect moment, then use them to kick somebody’s nose out the back of his head.”

True, but not helpful. I think. My kids learn it because we believe physical activity is important. They can’t play team sports. If they were girls, they’d probably be dancing or doing acrobatics instead. But they’re boys, and they’d rather hit stuff, and that’s probably a better skill for them to have.
 
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Petergee:
There’s nothing wrong with proportionate self-defence, but the vast majority of “martial arts” schools go way beyond that, to encouraging aggression and violence.
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This is simply false, Peter.
My sensei in college is a very religious Christian, and one of the few people I can say I love genuinely. I assure you, no romantic attraction here. Father/daughter perhaps, but really just a friend.
He explained one day in class, with examples, that he would never dream of using karate on your typical neighborhood miscreant. He was way above that- could have put anyone in an arm lock indefinitely, and that is hardly violent. But, he said, if anyone came into his house, and threatened his wife or his daughter or his sons… they would be dead in seconds. I have utmost respect for this man.
I am hoping my fiance will agree to take karate with me when we get married as a way to stay in shape and do something together.
 
Penny Plain:
My two older children are learning karate, but they’re learning it from a family friend. (Our life doesn’t allow for dojos, really).

He confided the following to me one evening over a bottle of wine (maybe a couple bottles, but certainly no more than four, and you can’t prove otherwise.)

“Karate is not about violence. It is about attaining mastery of your body and mastery of situations. Karate teaches you how to achieve perfect physical control and identify the perfect moment, then use them to kick somebody’s nose out the back of his head.”

True, but not helpful. I think. My kids learn it because we believe physical activity is important. They can’t play team sports. If they were girls, they’d probably be dancing or doing acrobatics instead. But they’re boys, and they’d rather hit stuff, and that’s probably a better skill for them to have.
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Just out of curiosity what rank is your friend? Is he a Karate master appoved to be a sensei? The first part of what he said was true, but the second part about “kicking somebody’s nose out the back of his head” was either meant as a joke or he shouldn’t be teaching Karate. Was he joking? I hope he doesn’t say stuff like this to the kids.:bigyikes:
 
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Peace-bwu:
Just out of curiosity what rank is your friend? Is he a Karate master appoved to be a sensei? The first part of what he said was true, but the second part about “kicking somebody’s nose out the back of his head” was either meant as a joke or he shouldn’t be teaching Karate. Was he joking? I hope he doesn’t say stuff like this to the kids.:bigyikes:
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It was part joke, part wry commentary on the nature of martial arts instruction. His point was this: There are many things that we can learn from Eastern spirituality (don’t start). They include the marriage of body and mind, the idea of stillness, and a concept of patience that the West seems to have lost entirely. There are many ways to approach these things.

My friend finds it fascinating that most Westerners choose to approach them through arts that teach, well, how to kick somebody’s nose out the back of his head. Even if they emphasize (as he does) that you musn’t.

You can drive through any town in America with more than 5,000 people and see a karate studio. Have you ever seen a studio that teaches, say, flower arranging or calligraphy? Only in the very largest cities.

And yes, that is something he would say to the children. Properly, in my view.
 
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Petergee:
I would be more concerned with the inappropriateness of training children in any kind of “martial art” (including “Western” ones like boxing) when Christ told us to be peacemakers and to “turn the other cheek” to those who strike us. There are plenty of other non-violent ways of giving kids exercise, discipline, respect, and knowledge of different cultures.
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As a practioner in Tae Kwon Do, BJJ and Kickboxing. I take offense to this. All martial arts teach discipline, respect for others, peace and humility. No instructor I know has ever said that it is okay to use it on anyone. There may be a few people out there that missuse the martial arts but that is because they have bad attitudes. Any training that one does is done for defense first. My kids train with me and they know, as well as I do, that it is not for use on the streets. But also if someone is treatening me or any of my family members then it is on and I hope he has some type of training because if not then he is in for a butt whipping. Violence is never the right way to solve things but turning the other cheek is no way of solving things either. Sometimes you just got to take your licks and/or dish it out. Jesus is the only man that I know that can turn the other cheek because HE is perfect, unlike the rest of us.

To answer the question. Don’t worry about the spiritual aspect of martial arts your kids know who GOD is.
 
On my way:
To answer the question. Don’t worry about the spiritual aspect of martial arts your kids know who GOD is.
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The spiritual aspect is precisely what I worry about. It is not Christian, and I believe it paves the way for New Age meditation and visualization.
 
Penny Plain:
It was part joke, part wry commentary on the nature of martial arts instruction. His point was this: There are many things that we can learn from Eastern spirituality (don’t start). They include the marriage of body and mind, the idea of stillness, and a concept of patience that the West seems to have lost entirely. There are many ways to approach these things.

My friend finds it fascinating that most Westerners choose to approach them through arts that teach, well, how to kick somebody’s nose out the back of his head. Even if they emphasize (as he does) that you musn’t.

You can drive through any town in America with more than 5,000 people and see a karate studio. Have you ever seen a studio that teaches, say, flower arranging or calligraphy? Only in the very largest cities.

And yes, that is something he would say to the children. Properly, in my view.
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I thought it *had *to be a joke!
 
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paramedicgirl:
The spiritual aspect is precisely what I worry about. It is not Christian, and I believe it paves the way for New Age meditation and visualization.
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I think I know what you are trying to get at but I can’t explain it to you. Maybe someone else may be of more help. I have a friend of mine who is really into meditation and yoga. He tells me that while he is meditating his soul leaves his body and he can see himself and other people from a spritual aspect. Is that what you might be worried about? If it is, then I may not be able to give you any advice on it.

Just remember to find a school that has a Christian teaching to it. My TKD school has a bible lesson every now and then. But religion also must be part of the household to make it work. I trust that you will make the right decision for your child. God Bless and good luck.
 
On my way:
I think I know what you are trying to get at but I can’t explain it to you. Maybe someone else may be of more help. I have a friend of mine who is really into meditation and yoga. He tells me that while he is meditating his soul leaves his body and he can see himself and other people from a spritual aspect. Is that what you might be worried about? If it is, then I may not be able to give you any advice on it.

Just remember to find a school that has a Christian teaching to it. My TKD school has a bible lesson every now and then. But religion also must be part of the household to make it work. I trust that you will make the right decision for your child. God Bless and good luck.
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Yes, the experience you mentioned makes alarm bells go off for me. Unfortunately in our little town of 4,500 people there are no Christian alternatives to seek out. I think Karate is out for us. No longer an option. I thank everyone who gave their (name removed by moderator)ut. It only confirmed what I already suspected.
 
I guess I’m really confused here. So many people have posted about their martial arts experiences that did not conflict with their Catholic faith.

But someone who described themselves as Buddhist, who meditated for half an hour AFTER her karate session, and someone else who is into yoga and mediatation has an out of body experience, and you use that as your reason for eliminating karate???

Yoga is not part of karate. Meditation is not part of karate. Sounds to me like you already have your mind made up against it just like the person who is posititve that martial arts encourages aggression and violence, no matter what anyone else says.

I’m sorry you are not even willing to go check out a dojo and see for yourself.

Arlene
 
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Arlene:
I guess I’m really confused here. So many people have posted about their martial arts experiences that did not conflict with their Catholic faith.

But someone who described themselves as Buddhist, who meditated for half an hour AFTER her karate session, and someone else who is into yoga and mediatation has an out of body experience, and you use that as your reason for eliminating karate???

Yoga is not part of karate. Meditation is not part of karate. Sounds to me like you already have your mind made up against it just like the person who is posititve that martial arts encourages aggression and violence, no matter what anyone else says.

I’m sorry you are not even willing to go check out a dojo and see for yourself.

Arlene
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But according to the one and only karate instructor in my little home town, they call on an inner spirit and use visualization techniques. That alone has made my mind up. For those of you who live in big cities, you have the option of seeking out karate with a Christian element. Count your blessings.

And I take offense at being equated with the people who had deragatory things to say about karate being violent. You never heard that from me.
 
I call on my inner spirit all the time. It is the Holy Spirit who resides in me. In quiet reflection and clearing my head of all the distractions of life I try to focus on the Spirit within me, to let Him guide me and strengthen me.

And yes, I guess I do have to count my blessings that in my little rural town of 3500 people we have a wonderful gifted sifu who has autistic, ADHD, aspergers, ODD, as well as behaviorally and developmentally challenged kids referred to her by the schools and doctors because she is able to work with them, help them focus, and bring out the best in them. She really is one of a kind.
 
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Arlene:
I guess I’m really confused here. So many people have posted about their martial arts experiences that did not conflict with their Catholic faith.

But someone who described themselves as Buddhist, who meditated for half an hour AFTER her karate session, and someone else who is into yoga and mediatation has an out of body experience, and you use that as your reason for eliminating karate???

Yoga is not part of karate. Meditation is not part of karate. Sounds to me like you already have your mind made up against it just like the person who is posititve that martial arts encourages aggression and violence, no matter what anyone else says.

I’m sorry you are not even willing to go check out a dojo and see for yourself.

Arlene
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Arlene, first let me thank you for your posts in response to my inquiry. You obviously have more options available to you than I do. You are fortunate to live somewhere where you can find a Kajukenbo dojo. Do you understand what living in a remote area is like?

So please don’t be so quick to judge me and call me close-minded for deciding to not pursue karate. My decision is based on what we have available right here where I live. It is not based on what you have available and the experience you presented.

So please do not be judgemental about this. The spiritual aspect that my daughter would be exposed to from the sport should we pursue karate in this town is not desirable. The only spirit I want her exposed to is the Holy Spirit, not some inner eastern spirituality that tells her she has an inner spirit that she can call up and believe in.

And if I am ever in Vancouver, Calgary or Toronto, maybe I will be able to go “check out a dojo and see for myself.”
 
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paramedicgirl:
please don’t be so quick to judge me and call me close-minded for deciding to not pursue karate. My decision is based on what we have available right here where I live. It is not based on what you have available and the experience you presented.

So please do not be judgemental about this. The spiritual aspect that my daughter would be exposed to from the sport should we pursue karate in this town is not desirable. The only spirit I want her exposed to is the Holy Spirit, not some inner eastern spirituality that tells her she has an inner spirit that she can call up and believe in.

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Paramedic girl,
although Karate has been great for my kids, I too am very cautious about the spiritual aspects involved. I am blessed enough that my daughter and son happen to have a sensei who is Cathoic and I also take this meditation thing very seriously, it has been a concern of mine from time to time. As parents we have to protect our children’s souls above all.

I respect your decision not to persue Karate. As a parent you have to do what is right for your family. If there is not a good dojo for you to check out, than maybe this isn’t where God is leading your family.

I hope you are able to find some fun activities to share with your children!
 
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Peace-bwu:
Paramedic girl,
although Karate has been great for my kids, I too am very cautious about the spiritual aspects involved. I am blessed enough that my daughter and son happen to have a sensei who is Cathoic and I also take this meditation thing very seriously, it has been a concern of mine from time to time. As parents we have to protect our children’s souls above all.

I respect your decision not to persue Karate. As a parent you have to do what is right for your family. If there is not a good dojo for you to check out, than maybe this isn’t where God is leading your family.

I hope you are able to find some fun activities to share with your children!
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Thank you for understanding that I am not against the sport of karate, it’s just that I don’t have the Christian alternative available to me. You are right when you say that this must not be the direction God is leading us.

The rest of you who have been able to find Christian instructors are truly blessed and God must have led you there.
 
i guess it would depend on whether you are strongly grounded in the faith in the first place and are able to think of the spirituality of the martial art in a Christ-centered approach, and think of it more as an art of self-defense rather than a sport, a means of killing, or another religion.

my grandfather is a third-degree black belt and one of the most pious and loyal Catholics i know.
 
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fraggle:
i guess it would depend on whether you are strongly grounded in the faith in the first place and are able to think of the spirituality of the martial art in a Christ-centered approach, and think of it more as an art of self-defense rather than a sport, a means of killing, or another religion.

my grandfather is a third-degree black belt and one of the most pious and loyal Catholics i know.
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I would say for an adult, yes. But a child is more susceptible to outside influences, even though they are being raised in their faith. As parents we are charged with the responsiblity of guarding and protecting their souls. Which to me means that I should not expose her to the inner spirituality, visualization and meditation of eastern religions. (I say this reminding everyone that there is not a Christian alternative here).
 
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paramedicgirl:
I wonder about karate. They believe in an inner spirit, and since my daughter has expressed an interest in karate, can anyone tell me if there are similar spiritual dangers as there are in yoga? Any web links??
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I come from a family of five Taekwondo blackbelts: my dad and four siblings–two of which are working on becoming instructors. There is no religion involved at their school–the focus is completely on discipline and acquiring the skills of a martial artist.

God bless,

Marian84 👋
 
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