Karl Keating's Error?

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Donald45

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I ran across the following statement on a certain fundamentalist forum:

**"Roman Catholic apologist Karl Keating writes that ‘the bishops at Toulouse restricted the use of the Bible until the [Albigensian] heresy was ended’ (Catholicism & Fundamentalism, p. 45). The peculiar thing is that the Bible remained on the Index of Forbidden Books for another 730 years! In his dance with truth, Mr. Keating takes care to omit this little fact."

Any thoughts?

Don
+T+
 
Without looking into it my guess is that the particular heretical version/translation was on the Index, not the Bible itself.

Keep in mind the old saying “the translator is a trader”. It makes perfect sense that the Church would place a false translation of the Bible on the Index so that Catholics did not mistakenly read it and be misled.
 
Donald45 said:
I ran across the following statement on a certain fundamentalist forum:

**“Roman Catholic apologist Karl Keating writes that ‘the bishops at Toulouse restricted the use of the Bible until the [Albigensian] heresy was ended’ (*Catholicism & Fundamentalism, p. 45). ***The peculiar thing is that the Bible remained on the Index of Forbidden Books for another 730 years! In his dance with truth, Mr. Keating takes care to omit this little fact.”

Any thoughts?

Don
+T+
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Fact? or is it a blatant falsification by the fundamentalist sight?

I say it was the latter. This is a typical tactic of the anti-Catholic. Twist a part of history until it fits their agenda.
 
I have no idea what the answer is here, but it ought to be a matter of record one way or the other, right?
 
WanderAimlessly said:
Fact? or is it a blatant falsification by the fundamentalist sight?

I say it was the latter. This is a typical tactic of the anti-Catholic. Twist a part of history until it fits their agenda.
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Hi,

I was told to buy this book in order to understand the similarities between the two. It is my understanding that this book was written by catholic scholars as well. I believe it was approved by the catholic church.👍
 
USMC said:
Without looking into it my guess is that the particular heretical version/translation was on the Index, not the Bible itself.

Keep in mind the old saying “the translator is a trader”. It makes perfect sense that the Church would place a false translation of the Bible on the Index so that Catholics did not mistakenly read it and be misled.
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That is correct. I found the index and it was unauthorized translations, not the Bible itself.
 
In old 1950’s Bibles it does say that Protestant versions of the Bible are not to be read by Catholics, and Catholics are urged to study the Catholic Bible.

So it is a common mis-representation of the truth, that by ignoring the fact that Catholics are encouraged to read the Bible and discouraged from reading Protestant versions of the Bible.

This is understandible as Catholics do value truth and since many Protestant versions of the Bible taught against the Catholic faith it would be seen as leading people astray and therefore to be avoided.
Nowdays since we are to be more open to talking to Protestants and bringing them into union with the Church, then it is helpful to study the different versions of the Bible.

God Bless
Scylla
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Hi,

I was told to buy this book in order to understand the similarities between the two. It is my understanding that this book was written by catholic scholars as well. I believe it was approved by the catholic church.👍
Click to expand...
Which book? Catholicism and Fundamentalism? It was written by Karl Keating - the president of Catholic Answers - to respond to Fundamentalist arguments against the Catholic Church. I don’t know if you could call Karl a scholar, but it’s still a very good book. I would definitely encourage you to read it.

Or were you talking about the Bible? Are you saying the Bible was written by Catholic scholars? Nice one 👍
 
Atreyu said:
Which book? Catholicism and Fundamentalism? It was written by Karl Keating - the president of Catholic Answers - to respond to Fundamentalist arguments against the Catholic Church. I don’t know if you could call Karl a scholar, but it’s still a very good book. I would definitely encourage you to read it.

Or were you talking about the Bible? Are you saying the Bible was written by Catholic scholars? Nice one 👍
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Hi,

HAHA no I was talking about the book by Karl Keating.
 
You know, I personally have put the JWs’ Bible on my personal list of books not to read. I not only can’t see the point, but I don’t want the skewed view of the Scriptures taking up residence in my head.
Isn’t this kind of the same thing? That Albigensians had made such a bad job of their bible, that it was liable to confuse people? After all, it’s not like the folks in the Middle Ages could just 😉 pop on down to the nearest Barnes & Noble & pick up a real Bible…They were too expensive for most to own anyway…
As much as I believe in freedom of the press, some things are not going to help us in our walk with God, & some things are likely to hurt…
 
If Im not mistaking that “accusation” is from an anti-Catholic list which wont go away despite being debunked multiple times.
In this case for example the “index of forbidden books” didnt come around till Trent so it didnt exist yet :rolleyes: where does this 750 years come from if Trent was in the 1500s…:whistle:
 
Considering that, for all of those 730 years, Catholics had the Bible read to them at Mass every Sunday, I think that the claim falls flat on its face from the start. Oh, no wait … um, let’s forbid this book, then we’ll read it to them - I mean how ridiculous of a claim is that?😛
 
zian said:
Considering that, for all of those 730 years, Catholics had the Bible read to them at Mass every Sunday, I think that the claim falls flat on its face from the start. Oh, no wait … um, let’s forbid this book, then we’ll read it to them - I mean how ridiculous of a claim is that?😛
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Dont underestimate a desperate fundamentalist, they will try ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, the rule of thumb for most of their anti-Catholic attacks is as long as it APPEARS damaging then its good enough to post (forget facts and common sense), then the Catholic is left picking up the pieces and left defending their smeared name.
 
Don45 citing fundy << The peculiar thing is that the Bible remained on the Index of Forbidden Books for another 730 years! >>

Its also my understanding the “restriction” of “Bibles” or “Bible reading” refers to erroneous or bogus or unauthorized translations of the Scriptures. Karl himself has said that in his past debates (I believe at least once with Dave Hunt). Karl also points out (I think in Cath and Fund) that the Index of Forbidden (or Prohibited) Books wasn’t established until 1543. I doubt that “Bibles” were ever put on that Index. Not sure about that date, but that’s what I have in my response to "Catholic inventions" :

1229 - BIBLE FORBIDDEN TO LAYMEN (John 5:39, II Tim 3:15-17)

The Bible was never “forbidden” to laymen. Boettner has the same date and adds “forbidden to laymen, placed on the Index of Forbidden Books by the Council of Valencia…1229.” I have two editions of Boettner’s anti-Catholic book and the later edition corrects this to the Council of Toulouse. There was no Council of Valencia in 1229. And as Karl Keating points out, there never was a Council in Valencia, Spain and the Index of Forbidden Books wasn’t established until 1543! What was “forbidden” were the erroneous versions of the Bible propogated by the Albigenses to support their heresy of Manicheanism. It was a local, temporary matter restricted to southern France. That is all.

Another point is some fundamentalists (e.g. Dave Hunt) think the Albigenses (or Waldenses, a Catholic sect) were actually "early evangelicals" :rolleyes: – a scholarly book on the Albigenses crusade (not sure if that’s one) would reveal the history, but I haven’t studied the subject in depth.

Phil P
 
Catholics aren’t the only ones who reject certain translations of the Bible.

I distinctly remember in the ‘60s when the Living Bible paraphrase version became popular that a hardcore, King James Version church had a good ol’ fashion book burning bonfire of these Bibles.

From what I gather from incidental conversations with most Protestants is that they also reject out-of-hand the Jehovah’s Witness New World Translation.

So these books are on an unlisted “forbidden list” for many Protestants; but they just don’t have the candor to admit it.
 
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