katholikos

[floro]

Love Unlimited - 6th Sunday of Easter

Love Unlimited
Marcellino D’Ambrosio, Ph.D.

Some people seem to think that the Catholic Church is just another multi-national corporation, Catholicism, Inc., with the Pope as CEO. Obviously, this view is a bit skewed, but is not totally off-base. The Church is in fact an international organization. That’s actually one of the meanings of the word “Catholic”– this church is no small sect limited to a particular ethnic enclave. Rather, it is “universal,” intended to reach and include people from all nations.

That’s an important message of this Sunday’s first reading. Jesus mission was first and foremost to the children of Israel. But notice that he never restricted his ministry to Jews alone. In fact the person he pointed out as having more faith than just about anyone else he’d met was not a Jew, but a Roman, the centurion whose servant he healed.

As with the master, so with the disciple. Peter, the Vicar of Christ, meets another centurion who also exhibits faith and hunger for God. Not only was he a Gentile, but he was an officer in the occupying army of the hated Romans. He hadn’t even gone through RCIA and sacraments of initiation yet, and what does God do? Pour out the Holy Spirit upon him and his companions! How could these enemies be denied the sacrament of the Spirit when God had not hesitated to give them a generous measure of the Spirit? Someone once said that Catholicism meant “Here comes everybody!” In other words, the family is open to foreigners as well as countrymen, enemies as well as friends.

The Church is similar to a multi-national corporation in another respect. It has very serious business to attend to. Our second reading and the gospel sum up this business in a single word–love. If you put this central concept together with the message of the first reading, you get both the mission statement and a good DBA for the corporate entity of the Catholic Church–Love Unlimited. Human beings without saving grace are capable of some love, as pointed out by C.S. Lewis’s brilliant book, the Four Loves. But it is always a limited sort of love. It is limited in extension–we love our own country, our own family, our own spouse, our own friends. It is also usually limited in intensity–we often are willing to love as long as it doesn’t cost too much.

But the love which is the church’s business is charity. It is divine love that gives itself without limit to everyone without exception. It is a love impossible for human beings without the divine power of the Holy Spirit that was poured upon the 120 at Pentecost and upon Cornelius and company on that day in Caesarea. The first letter of John tells us that God’s offering up his only Son demonstrates the nature of this mind-boggling love. John also shows us how to identify those who truly have the life-blood of God cursing through their veins – simply check to see if the same sort of love is evident in their lives.

To love in this way is a privilege and an obligation for the Christian. But it is also a joy. In fact, true spiritual joy is what every human being longs for. But without the experience of receiving and giving this divine love, this joy can never be found.

Why were St. Francis of Assisi and Mother Teresa so full of joy when they had nothing?

Because they gave everything. Just like God did. To love without limit is what God does, and so living of life of love means intimate friendship with God.

When it is all said and done, that’s really what it’s all about. Doctrines, sacraments, canon law, customs, traditions and devotions–they are all designed to express and deepen this intimate union with God, this exciting adventure of love, that issues forth in more joy than we ever thought possible.

 

[IanGE]

He is Truely Risen Alleluia!

For the earliest reference to Catholic Church (Greek Ekklhsia kaq olhV), see post 29 of this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5827795#post5827795.

Άγιος ο Θεός,
Ιερά μπορεί μια,
Ένας Αγιος Αθάνατος,
Ελέησον για εμάς και για όλο τον Κόσμο.

Could I ask where the “Chapter VIII” quote comes from please? Also the Greek word “Ecclesia” has nothing to do with Catholic or indeed “Church”. “Clesia” means “called”; “Ec” (or Ex) is a prefix meaning “Out”. Hence “Called Out”: reference to “people”? Can’t be a building or a ruling “Head Office” junta. Indeed, “Catholic”, I believe, refers to a universal GOD (“if you love ME, you also love the Father and we will make our abode in you.”). God ceased to be a Temple/building God at the instant of Jesus’ death. “The veil of the Temple was split asunder” so the Holy of Holies was open to ALL! The prophecies were fulfilled, including “in the last days the Holy Spirit will descend upon ALL FLESH” Now THAT is “Ewangel” - blooming MARVELLOUS news!

 

[boeck249]

1 the Catholic Church is the Church .
2 It does not say Catholic because their was only one Church.
3. All the ancient Christian Churches are or were part of the dictionary.

try the dictionary" pertaining to the ancient undivided Christian Church".

 

[inkaneer]

Could I ask where the “Chapter VIII” quote comes from please? Also the Greek word “Ecclesia” has nothing to do with Catholic or indeed “Church”. “Clesia” means “called”; “Ec” (or Ex) is a prefix meaning “Out”. Hence “Called Out”: reference to “people”? Can’t be a building or a ruling “Head Office” junta. Indeed, “Catholic”, I believe, refers to a universal GOD (“if you love ME, you also love the Father and we will make our abode in you.”). God ceased to be a Temple/building God at the instant of Jesus’ death. “The veil of the Temple was split asunder” so the Holy of Holies was open to ALL! The prophecies were fulfilled, including “in the last days the Holy Spirit will descend upon ALL FLESH” Now THAT is “Ewangel” - blooming MARVELLOUS news!

According to the KJV lexicon the Greek word ecclesia occurs 118 times in the NT. Of those 118 times it is translated as ‘church’ 115 times. The other three times it is translated as “an assembly” and used to denote a non religious gathering. So ecclesia means church.

 

[grandfather]

Grandfather,
You stated: “Ask your friend where in scripture does he find the word Protestant, Lutheran, Assembly of God, Anglican, nondenominational, Methodist, Reformed, Pentecostal, Mormon, Baptist, …”

Actually my denomination is the only one mentioned by name in the Bible. You have no doubt heard of “John, the Baptist” ??? (LOL)

Are we being silly?

Is your church named after a saint then, Saint John the Baptist. That is one of the most popular names for Catholic parishes. The Church in scripture is nowhere called the Baptist Church, the Church of the Baptist, or the Church of the Baptizer, is it?

 

[grandfather]

Grandfather,
You stated: “Ask your friend where in scripture does he find the word Protestant, Lutheran, Assembly of God, Anglican, nondenominational, Methodist, Reformed, Pentecostal, Mormon, Baptist, …”

Actually my denomination is the only one mentioned by name in the Bible. You have no doubt heard of “John, the Baptist” ??? (LOL)

Slave,

I admire your forum name. I hope you are a perfectly obedient slave of our Lord. God bless you.

 

[steve_b]

Could I ask where the “Chapter VIII” quote comes from please?

The following CHAP. VIII.–LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP. Comes from St Ignatius, Bp of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrnæans Ignatius was a disciple of St John the apostle. He was bishop from ~69 a.d. to ~ 107 a.d.
I:

Also the Greek word “Ecclesia” has nothing to do with Catholic or indeed “Church”. “Clesia” means “called”; “Ec” (or Ex) is a prefix meaning “Out”. Hence “Called Out”: reference to “people”?

check inkaneer’s response.
I:

Can’t be a building or a ruling “Head Office” junta. Indeed, “Catholic”, I believe, refers to a universal GOD (“if you love ME, you also love the Father and we will make our abode in you.”).

• A building is where the Church meets.
• God is not the author of confusion. He wants unity. The apostles taught unity. In fact division from the only Church Jesus established on the apostles with Peter as the head, was condemned. [Rom 16:17-20] & [Gal 5:19-21]
• look at the religious relativism 2000 years later, with 10’s of thousands of Christian splinter confessions. As you can see, from the quote above, the “Catholic Church” was used to define the true Church established by Jesus, and this is from a disciple of St John the apostle, during apostolic times.

I:

God ceased to be a Temple/building God at the instant of Jesus’ death. “The veil of the Temple was split asunder” so the Holy of Holies was open to ALL! The prophecies were fulfilled, including “in the last days the Holy Spirit will descend upon ALL FLESH” Now THAT is “Ewangel” - blooming MARVELLOUS news!

God a building?.. where did that come from?

 

[Slave_of_Jesus]

Are we being silly?

Chill out, Dude ! I WAS trying to inject a little bit of humor into the conversation. You take yourself too seriously. Don’t you know what LOL means.

You ask: “Is your church named after a saint then, Saint John the Baptist. That is one of the most popular names for Catholic parishes. The Church in scripture is nowhere called the Baptist Church, the Church of the Baptist, or the Church of the Baptizer, is it?”

As to your other point: We don’t name churches after people. But, since all Christians are His saints on earth, I guess you could say our church is named after all of us that worship God at the First Baptist Church of our town.

And why would it be named “Saint John”? I’ve searched the NASB, NIV, ESV, KJV, NKJV, and RSV and I can’t find the first mention of a “Saint John” anywhere. Nor could I find Saint Peter, Saint Paul, Saint Add-Your-Own-Name, etc… Then again, I guess the “Saint” thing is another one of your sacred “traditions” dreamed up and rooted in Roman Catholic theology. (Just curious, but does the Roman Catholic church pronounce me anathema if I don’t believe in the Sainthood as they do condemn me to hell for not accepting Papal authority ? (Talk about judge not, lest you be judged - Wow))

Yes, I try to live up to “Slave of Jesus” as imperfectly as any born-again sinner can. But as long as I am in this corruptible body, I’ll keep on disappointing Him and myself. I say with the apostle, Paul, “For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.” Rom: 7: 19 But, Praise Jesus, I can confess my sin to Him, repent, and be forgiven. I KNOW that I’ll only be perfectly holy (sinless) like God, when I leave this life and enter into His glorious presence. What a wonderful day that will be !!!

Have a Blessed evening Y’all.

 

[IanGE]

God a building?.. where did that come from?

Oh dear. God WAS present behind the veil from the day the tent tabernacle was dedicated (Ex 40), solomon’s temple rededicated (1 Kings 8) right up to the instant of Jesus’ death when the veil was split. Prior to this anyone who touched the Ark of the Covenant was instantly deaded 9 (1 Sam 6:19; 2 Sam 6:6&7). Only the High Priest, who had to keep himself scripturally spotless, could go behind the veil on Yom Kippur. Even he had bells attached to the hem of his garment, so that people could hear him moving about behind the veil. If the bells stopped, most likely he was not so squeaky clean and was zapped by God.
Once the veil was split ANYONE could walk in the Holy of Holies: even Roman soldiers strolled around unharmed at the destruction of Jerusalem. No longer did people have to make costly pilgrimages to Jerusalem to pray in the temple. Nor did they need to pray towards Jerusalem, where God dwelt. The Lord was no longer confined to a building. Early Christian assemblies met anywhere: large assemblies gathered in quadrangle formed within the gates of a city - the only open space in the higgeldy-piggedly unplanned cities; in the huge, underground catacombs of Rome cos they no longer feared death. After Constantine made Christianity the true church of the Roman Empire, he built St. Sophia’s impressive cathedral in a new city named after him: Constantinople. This was to separate the political centre of the Roman Empire (Rome) from the Spiritual centre, which was to Constantinople. However, schisms of one sort or another divided the Greek Orthodox church with the Roman Orthodox church. Helas!
After that, too, priests were no longer strictly necessary but we do need chairmen and elders to keep order. It may be noted that in 1Cor. 12:28, Paul lists the gifts of the Spirit and ‘speakers of Tongues’ comes last. Second last is those with gifts of administration. When the administrators declare that their dogma has the same WEIGHT as the Word of God (Lateran V) its no wonder that Luther objected.
PS One of Luther’s 95 theses was/is: “if the church will not work with the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit will work with Laity.” Read Eusebius and you’ll find the Church threw out the Holy Spirit with the bath water back in AD 330-ish! If they still want to work with the Holy Spirit they would recognise and advocate the Charisms poured out on Lay people AND not a few religious.

 

[steve_b]

God a building?.. where did that come from?

Oh dear. God WAS present behind the veil from the day the tent tabernacle was dedicated (Ex 40), solomon’s temple rededicated (1 Kings 8) right up to the instant of Jesus’ death when the veil was split. Prior to this anyone who touched the Ark of the Covenant was instantly deaded 9 (1 Sam 6:19; 2 Sam 6:6&7). Only the High Priest, who had to keep himself scripturally spotless, could go behind the veil on Yom Kippur. Even he had bells attached to the hem of his garment, so that people could hear him moving about behind the veil. If the bells stopped, most likely he was not so squeaky clean and was zapped by God.
Once the veil was split ANYONE could walk in the Holy of Holies: even Roman soldiers strolled around unharmed at the destruction of Jerusalem. No longer did people have to make costly pilgrimages to Jerusalem to pray in the temple. Nor did they need to pray towards Jerusalem, where God dwelt. The Lord was no longer confined to a building.

the Levitical priesthood in the line of Aaron, needed to continually offer animal sacrifices, both for their own sins and the sins of the people. THAT system has been done away with. Jesus transfigured it to the new priesthood. The tearing of the veil, i.e. the Old Covenant was transfigured to the New Covenant in Christ. God, in this act, opened the Covenant to the whole world, breaking down the wall/veil that separated the rest of the world from a benefit given only to the Jewish people. Those of us who were far off were made near (cf. Eph. 2:11-22).

Why the veil was torn at the moment of Jesus’ death is explained in the letter to the Hebrews. The Catholic Church teaches Christ has removed the barriers between God and man, and now we may approach Him with confidence and boldness (cf: Heb. 4:14-16). This gift is appropriated by Baptism (cf. 1 Pet. 3:21; Heb. 10:22) and in our participation in the Eucharist, especially reception of the Eucharist, whereby the faithful become themselves, a Tabernacle. As long as the Temple stood, it signified the continuation of the Old Covenant.
I:

Early Christian assemblies met anywhere: large assemblies gathered in quadrangle formed within the gates of a city - the only open space in the higgeldy-piggedly unplanned cities; in the huge, underground catacombs of Rome cos they no longer feared death. After Constantine made Christianity the true church of the Roman Empire, he built St. Sophia’s impressive cathedral in a new city named after him: Constantinople. This was to separate the political centre of the Roman Empire (Rome) from the Spiritual centre, which was to Constantinople. However, schisms of one sort or another divided the Greek Orthodox church with the Roman Orthodox church. Helas!

• Constantine made Christianity legal ***before he was converted ***. The true Church is the Catholic Church, the only Church Jesus established, and remained so without interruption. It’s the Church of the creed
• Constantine was an emperor. By moving from Rome to Byzantium, he moved the political center Not the spiritual center, remember, he was not converted yet. Then he renamed the city Constantinople.
• Rome is the chair of Peter and the center of the Catholic Church. Secular politics has nothing to do with this. That’s why it is always the see that is 1st on the lists of sees. See the list below
• The Church of Rome is the Catholic Church, NOT the Orthodox Church.

I:

After that, too, priests were no longer strictly necessary but we do need chairmen and elders to keep order.

Bishops are also priests. That is a rank that is scripturally identified and necessary. Peter at the 1st council, called for the replacement of Judas. Peter said, “let his bishopric another take”. And so Mattias was elected to take his place. It’s where we get apostolic succession of bishops
I:

It may be noted that in 1Cor. 12:28, Paul lists the gifts of the Spirit and ‘speakers of Tongues’ comes last. Second last is those with gifts of administration. When the administrators declare that their dogma has the same WEIGHT as the Word of God (Lateran V) its no wonder that Luther objected.

Please give the exact reference to the “Lateran V” reference.
I:

PS One of Luther’s 95 theses was/is: “if the church will not work with the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit will work with Laity.” Read Eusebius and you’ll find the Church threw out the Holy Spirit with the bath water back in AD 330-ish! If they still want to work with the Holy Spirit they would recognise and advocate the Charisms poured out on Lay people AND not a few religious.

Again, please give accurate and proper references.

Here’s the List of the sees in order, that I mentioned above

1. • Rome (chair of Peter)
   • Alexandria
   • Antioch
   • Jerusalem
   Constantine moves from Rome to Byzantium, Byzantium is renamed Constantinople
   1. • Rome (chair of Peter)
      • Constantinople (political capital of the empire)
      • Alexandria
      • Antioch
      • Jerusalem

 

[inkaneer]

As to your other point: We don’t name churches after people. But, since all Christians are His saints on earth, I guess you could say our church is named after all of us that worship God at the First Baptist Church of our town.

And why would it be named “Saint John”? I’ve searched the NASB, NIV, ESV, KJV, NKJV, and RSV and I can’t find the first mention of a “Saint John” anywhere. Nor could I find Saint Peter, Saint Paul, Saint Add-Your-Own-Name, etc… Then again, I guess the “Saint” thing is another one of your sacred “traditions” dreamed up and rooted in Roman Catholic theology. (Just curious, but does the Roman Catholic church pronounce me anathema if I don’t believe in the Sainthood as they do condemn me to hell for not accepting Papal authority ? (Talk about judge not, lest you be judged - Wow))

Yes, I try to live up to “Slave of Jesus” as imperfectly as any born-again sinner can. But as long as I am in this corruptible body, I’ll keep on disappointing Him and myself. I say with the apostle, Paul, “For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.” Rom: 7: 19 But, Praise Jesus, I can confess my sin to Him, repent, and be forgiven. I KNOW that I’ll only be perfectly holy (sinless) like God, when I leave this life and enter into His glorious presence. What a wonderful day that will be !!!

Have a Blessed evening Y’all.

Well looks like you got some bad information there sonny. No one is condemning you to hell, but you. And tell me, can you really confess your sin to Jesus? Can you show me where that is in scripture? Cause I can show you where Jesus gave authority to the eleven apostles to forgive sins. Now James 5:16 says,:

“16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.”

But that is not confessing to Jesus

And 1 John 1:9 says:

“9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

But that doesn’t say who to confess to, now does it? There is no verse in scripture that says we are to confess our sins to Jesus. You, or your minister, made that up. Now look at John 20:23 where Jesus tells the eleven apostles:

“23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Notice they can either forgive or retain sin. And of who? Anyone!!! This is far different than what Jesus told Peter in Matthew 18:21-22:

"21 Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.”

There is no mention of retaining sin for one who sins against us personally. We are always to forgive so that we too will be forgiven. Yet in John 20:23 Jesus is not speaking of those that sin against the apostles personally. He is speaking of the sins of anybody.

Unfortunately your denomination lacks the authority to forgive sin and while that does not condemn you to hell it makes the narrow path even narrower. Pray that you do not commit a deadly sin as did Paul when he persecuted Jesus by persecuting His Church. Paul’s deadly sin was cleansed by his Baptism as were yours when you were baptized {Trinitarian Baptism} but one can only be baptized once. Then what?

 

[IanGE]

Well looks like you got some bad information there sonny. No one is condemning you to hell, but you. And tell me, can you really confess your sin to Jesus? Can you show me where that is in scripture? Cause I can show you where Jesus gave authority to the eleven apostles to forgive sins. Now James 5:16 says,:

“16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.”

But that is not confessing to Jesus

And 1 John 1:9 says:

“9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

But that doesn’t say who to confess to, now does it? There is no verse in scripture that says we are to confess our sins to Jesus. You, or your minister, made that up. Now look at John 20:23 where Jesus tells** the eleven apostles**:

“23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Notice they can either forgive or retain sin. And of who? Anyone!!! This is far different than what Jesus told Peter in Matthew 18:21-22:

"21 Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.”

There is no mention of retaining sin for one who sins against us personally. We are always to forgive so that we too will be forgiven. Yet in John 20:23 Jesus is not speaking of those that sin against the apostles personally. He is speaking of the sins of anybody.

Unfortunately your denomination lacks the authority to forgive sin and while that does not condemn you to hell it makes the narrow path even narrower. Pray that you do not commit a deadly sin as did Paul when he persecuted Jesus by persecuting His Church. Paul’s deadly sin was cleansed by his Baptism as were yours when you were baptized {Trinitarian Baptism} but one can only be baptized once. Then what?

Are you telling me that the New Testament does not apply to ME? I KNOW in my heart (where God and the Holy Spirit dwell) that the whole Bible is a letter of love to ME and ALL who accept and love Jesus. One of the Charismatic exercises is to read your own name wherever Jesus says “you” - to try and convey just how much God loves you. The claim that Jesus only spoke to the apostles (and thereby priests) is a horrifying indictment to the love of God towards ALL His people! In fact ALL people, Christian, Catholic, Arab, Hindoo: He created EVERYTHING in a mighty, sweeping act of love - unconditional love. I also KNOW that God weeps today: he has given all his people chance after chance to turn to Him but He will soon have to destroy his own beloved creation… Pray for the unconverted, please.
In 1 Peter 2:9, Peter says “you are a chosen people, a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, a Holy nation, a people belonging to God…” It is IMPERATIVE that each one forgives all. In the Lord’s prayer “…forgive us our sins as (could be translated FOR) we have (ALREADY) forgiven all those…” In the OT, sinners laid hands on sacrifices for presentation to the temple. The priests ate of those sacrifices and on Yom Kippur laid hands and transferred all sins of the people on the most perfect sacrifice available. This was then sacrificed to God in the Holy of Holies and God cleansed His people of sin for another year. Jesus was the Supreme Sacrifice through Whom God cleansed all people for ever. I see a connection between OT and NT: I forgive all people who have sinned against me; the Lord takes MY sin and those of all others I have forgiven. In away I am a High Priest and Jesus cleanses me and everybody I’ve forgiven. Hopefully, all those I’ve hurt will forgive me and play High Priest for me. I once asked the Lord: " I am commanded: “whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven; whose sins you retain they are retained.” Where are those sins retained?" “They are retained by YOU, Ian.” Mon Dieu, sacre bleu!

 

[inkaneer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by inkaneer
Well looks like you got some bad information there sonny. No one is condemning you to hell, but you. And tell me, can you really confess your sin to Jesus? Can you show me where that is in scripture? Cause I can show you where Jesus gave authority to the eleven apostles to forgive sins. Now James 5:16 says,:

“16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.”

But that is not confessing to Jesus

And 1 John 1:9 says:

“9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

But that doesn’t say who to confess to, now does it? There is no verse in scripture that says we are to confess our sins to Jesus. You, or your minister, made that up. Now look at John 20:23 where Jesus tells the eleven apostles:

“23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Notice they can either forgive or retain sin. And of who? Anyone!!! This is far different than what Jesus told Peter in Matthew 18:21-22:

"21 Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.”

There is no mention of retaining sin for one who sins against us personally. We are always to forgive so that we too will be forgiven. Yet in John 20:23 Jesus is not speaking of those that sin against the apostles personally. He is speaking of the sins of anybody.

Unfortunately your denomination lacks the authority to forgive sin and while that does not condemn you to hell it makes the narrow path even narrower. Pray that you do not commit a deadly sin as did Paul when he persecuted Jesus by persecuting His Church. Paul’s deadly sin was cleansed by his Baptism as were yours when you were baptized {Trinitarian Baptism} but one can only be baptized once. Then what?

Are you telling me that the New Testament does not apply to ME? I KNOW in my heart (where God and the Holy Spirit dwell) that the whole Bible is a letter of love to ME and ALL who accept and love Jesus. One of the Charismatic exercises is to read your own name wherever Jesus says “you” - to try and convey just how much God loves you. The claim that Jesus only spoke to the apostles (and thereby priests) is a horrifying indictment to the love of God towards ALL His people! In fact ALL people, Christian, Catholic, Arab, Hindoo: He created EVERYTHING in a mighty, sweeping act of love - unconditional love. I also KNOW that God weeps today: he has given all his people chance after chance to turn to Him but He will soon have to destroy his own beloved creation… Pray for the unconverted, please.

WOW!!! First show me where I said that the New Testament did not apply to you. What I said was that Jesus delegated the authority to forgive sin to the Apostles and at the time there were only eleven as Judas was dead and Paul had not yet been converted. Now do you deny that John 20:23 is the delegation of auhtority to forgive sin? It sure sounds like it.

In 1 Peter 2:9, Peter says “you are a chosen people, a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, a Holy nation, a people belonging to God…” It is IMPERATIVE that each one forgives all. In the Lord’s prayer “…forgive us our sins as (could be translated FOR) we have (ALREADY) forgiven all those…” In the OT, sinners laid hands on sacrifices for presentation to the temple. The priests ate of those sacrifices and on Yom Kippur laid hands and transferred all sins of the people on the most perfect sacrifice available. This was then sacrificed to God in the Holy of Holies and God cleansed His people of sin for another year. Jesus was the Supreme Sacrifice through Whom God cleansed all people for ever. I see a connection between OT and NT: I forgive all people who have sinned against me; the Lord takes MY sin and those of all others I have forgiven. In away I am a High Priest and Jesus cleanses me and everybody I’ve forgiven. Hopefully, all those I’ve hurt will forgive me and play High Priest for me. I once asked the Lord: " I am commanded: “whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven; whose sins you retain they are retained.” Where are those sins retained?" “They are retained by YOU, Ian.” Mon Dieu, sacre bleu!

Listen pal, no one plays HIgh Priest. Jesus is the High Priest and He don’t need you to role play for Him. It sounds to me like you have acquired a whole lot of non Catholic teaching. Priests can retain a person’s sins. St. Padre Pio did it all the time refusing to give absolution to a person because he did not think they were sincere in their confession. He, at times, would withhold absolution until a person made right the sin they committed. As I said we are to forgive those who sin against us personally and not to withhold that forgiveness but the authority to forgive sin given to the apostles included the authority to withhold forgiveness.

Now, You may claim to be a Catholic charismatic but the emphasis there should be on the word ‘Catholic’ not charismatic. I discern that you are showing signs of a weakening of the faith that is Catholic. Time to check in with the church on doctrine and as they say here, “Catholic up!”

 

[IanGE]

WOW!!! First show me where I said that the New Testament did not apply to you. What I said was that Jesus delegated the authority to forgive sin to the Apostles and at the time there were only eleven as Judas was dead and Paul had not yet been converted. Now do you deny that John 20:23 is the delegation of auhtority to forgive sin? It sure sounds like it.

Listen pal, no one plays HIgh Priest. Jesus is the High Priest and He don’t need you to role play for Him. It sounds to me like you have acquired a whole lot of non Catholic teaching. Priests can retain a person’s sins. St. Padre Pio did it all the time refusing to give absolution to a person because he did not think they were sincere in their confession. He, at times, would withhold absolution until a person made right the sin they committed. As I said we are to forgive those who sin against us personally and not to withhold that forgiveness but the authority to forgive sin given to the apostles included the authority to withhold forgiveness.

Now, You may claim to be a Catholic charismatic but the emphasis there should be on the word ‘Catholic’ not charismatic. I discern that you are showing signs of a weakening of the faith that is Catholic. Time to check in with the church on doctrine and as they say here, “Catholic up!”

Notice that in John 20:23 Jesus "breathed on them (the apostles). “Receive ye the Holy Spirit.” The Church took control OVER the Holy Spirit centuries ago. While Church Doctrine conflicts and has the temerity to override the Holy Word of God, I, too, protest.
I have seen my Parish Priest to confess That so very many Church pronouncements hold no sway over me, so I ‘m no longer a Catholic. He said, gently, "Ian, God gave us all a brain: He expects us to use it, not follow any willy-nilly dictat, “Jesus is here, no there”. If Jesus IS the Truth then we are fully entitled to ask Hard questions. Yes, strictly speaking I may not be a ROMAN Catholic, but I am proud to be a Christian.
Some years ago I was distressed to witness unChristian behaviour among Charismatics and I asked Jesus, "Lord, I am not allowed to judge but how do I KNOW if someone has truly given his heart to you and is Spirit-filled. He gave me Mark 16:17 & 18 to read. “These signs SHALL follow the believer…” “Ian, if you see anyone showing even ONE of those signs you KNOW he is my disciple. Even though you may see signs of sin, don’t worry, I have him/her in the palm of my hand.”
I still worried about the lack of signs in the Church; He then gave me Matt 16:18, Jesus’ wonderful pun: “…thou art *Petros *(m. name) and upon this Petra (f. rock) I will build my eccelsia. AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.” I worried no more!
If my head is not Catholic, my heart still is.
PS Prior to my Baptism in the Spirit (yes, my adult baptism was very different) the Bible was just another book (biblios). But from the instant I was Born Again (19:45 GMT Sept 28th 1982), the whole Bible became the most beautiful writing in the Universe: indeed, a love letter from Abba Father to ME! Paul does not mention it in his Gifts of the Spirit (1 COR 12), but I’ve not met one Charismatic whose eyes do not shine as they read or quote from the Bible. Often, I am aware of the Holy Spirit reading the Bible over my shoulder. Cheekily, I asked, “Lord, You wrote all of this, why read it again?” He said, “Ian, you are an author. Don’t you enjoy reading your own words again?”

 

[Michael_Francis]

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