Keating, Catholic Answers take a swipe at evolution

[reggieM]

Every human being needs to know we are not haphazard mistakes. They are not going to get that in the God ist verboten public schools.

Quite true. They are taught the opposite – that they are they are haphazard mistakes. Thankfully, the Pope has opposed that thinking – but his voice is blocked by many in today’s materialist-culture.

 

[edwest2]

And, on occasion, ancient and extinct forms of life turn up alive:

archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/06/26/living.fossils.enn/index.html

Peace,
Ed

 

[The_Barbarian]

You wrote elsewhere that science does not have to be believed.

Yes, that’s true. Even Catholics are free to reject it.

Most people who are taught evolution in public schools are told this is it. Natural process, add millions of years and then you.

Yes, that is what the evidence indicates, as the Pope says.

It’s complete in itself.

Never saw a public school that taught that one. Someone’s had a little fun with your trust in them.

Your adding God to the mix is puzzling.

Remember, I’m Catholic. The Church says that any theory that denies divine providence is wrong.

The theory, as witten in current textbooks, works without any outside supernatural assistance.

So far, no sign of God stepping in and tinkering with it. It appears that He got it right the first time.

That’s why I don’t accept it as written.

See above. You don’t know what it is.

They are not going to get that in the God ist verboten public schools.

The same theory is taught in Catholic schools.

Once again, I’m not saying add God to the public science class but His critical guidance of whatever process occurred needs to be widely known.

But because we have liberty in America, it’s forbidden to preach any religion in public school. That’s what parents and churches are for.

 

[The_Barbarian]

And, on occasion, ancient and extinct forms of life turn up alive:

Obviously not extinct. Relict populations often survive in out-of-the-way places that have not changed significantly in millions of years.

Good to know there are still discoveries to be made out there.

 

[reggieM]

And, on occasion, ancient and extinct forms of life turn up alive:

archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/06/26/living.fossils.enn/index.html

Some are living “fossils” from groups believed extinct since the Mesozoic period, the time of the dinosaurs.
“Creatures have been marooned on their underwater peaks for millions of years,” says Tony Koslow, a marine researcher at CSIRO, Australia’s national science agency.

They haven’t mutated for “millions of years”.

 

[reggieM]

Doesn’t the Church officially teach intelligent design?
Thus, even if the theory of evolution could ever have be proven to be true, wouldn’t it have to be an evolution by intelligent design, and not by pure chance without God?

Since God does exist, then some form of intelligent design theory is true.

Yes, the Church does officially teach intelligent design – we proclaim this every Sunday at Mass:

**We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. **

 

[edwest2]

Some are living “fossils” from groups believed extinct since the Mesozoic period, the time of the dinosaurs.
“Creatures have been marooned on their underwater peaks for millions of years,” says Tony Koslow, a marine researcher at CSIRO, Australia’s national science agency.

They haven’t mutated for “millions of years”.

This is a supposition, not a fact. If these creatures, in living, dying and reproducing, added just one pound of dead mass to the sea floor in millions of years… that’s millions of pounds. Something’s not right.

God bless,
Ed

 

[reggieM]

This is a supposition, not a fact. If these creatures, in living, dying and reproducing, added just one pound of dead mass to the sea floor in millions of years… that’s millions of pounds. Something’s not right.
God bless,
Ed

Additionally, in ‘millions of years’ they remain exactly the same. They have all kinds of interesting organs and appendages and fascinating ways of eating and swimming – but none of this has evolved since the earliest records have been found. They appeared and stayed the same.

 

[edwest2]

Yes, that’s true. Even Catholics are free to reject it.

Yes, that is what the evidence indicates, as the Pope says.

Never saw a public school that taught that one. Someone’s had a little fun with your trust in them.

Remember, I’m Catholic. The Church says that any theory that denies divine providence is wrong.

So far, no sign of God stepping in and tinkering with it. It appears that He got it right the first time.

See above. You don’t know what it is.

The same theory is taught in Catholic schools.

But because we have liberty in America, it’s forbidden to preach any religion in public school. That’s what parents and churches are for.

Liberty? This country’s Judeo-Christian heritage is even recognized on our currency. We are endowed by our Creator…

Peace,
Ed

 

[rossum]

Additionally, in ‘millions of years’ they remain exactly the same.

Highly unlikely. I do not know the details of the new species on the sea-mounts, but I do now the details for coelacanths. Fossil coelacanths were up to about 30cm long and lived in shallow waters. There were over 100 species of them. Modern coelacanths are 100 - 150cm long and live in very deep water. Modern coelacanths do not belong to any of the fossil species, they have evolved over time.

I strongly suspect that none of the new species found will match the fossil species, though they will fall into some of the wider classifications - Genus, Family etc.

In short they do not remain “exactly the same”, they do remain similar. They have evolved, but slowly and not by much. I suspect that is probably because the environment where they were living has only changed slowly and not by much.

They appeared and stayed the same.

They appeared similar and have evolved slowly and slightly.

rossum

 

[reggieM]

They have evolved, but slowly and not by much. I suspect that is probably because the environment where they were living has only changed slowly and not by much.

One reason I find this hard to accept is that it is claimed that the environment changed dramatically enough to cause these diverse and complex creatures to evolve from single-celled organisms. Then, it is supposed, the environment stopped changing for the next millions of years.

 

[The_Barbarian]

(Barbarian notes that our religious liberties require that no religious doctrines be taught in public school)

Liberty?

Yes. The Constitution forbids any establishment of religion. The Founders were convinced that religion was essential in a just society, but considering the history of religious strife in Europe, wanted no part of official religion. Read Madison’s “Against Religious Assessments” for a better understanding why.

This country’s Judeo-Christian heritage is even recognized on our currency.

The courts have held that it is what Madison called a “de minimus” violation; one so trivial that it is not worth arguing about. The court correctly held that these words are so common and so little regarded on currency as to be essentially meaningless to most people.

We are endowed by our Creator…

Indeed we are. But if you look at the law of the land, you will find no mention of a Creator. For the reasons mentioned above.

 

[The_Barbarian]

I can’t think of one speces that has remained the same over several million years. None of the commonly mentioned ones (horseshoe crab, coelacanth, etc) have remained the same. They are all different from their ancient ancestors.

 

[buffalo]

I can’t think of one speces that has remained the same over several million years. None of the commonly mentioned ones (horseshoe crab, coelacanth, etc) have remained the same. They are all different from their ancient ancestors.

What did an old horseshoe crab look like? How is it different from one living today?

 

[edwest2]

(Barbarian notes that our religious liberties require that no religious doctrines be taught in public school)

Yes. The Constitution forbids any establishment of religion. The Founders were convinced that religion was essential in a just society, but considering the history of religious strife in Europe, wanted no part of official religion. Read Madison’s “Against Religious Assessments” for a better understanding why.

The courts have held that it is what Madison called a “de minimus” violation; one so trivial that it is not worth arguing about. The court correctly held that these words are so common and so little regarded on currency as to be essentially meaningless to most people.

Indeed we are. But if you look at the law of the land, you will find no mention of a Creator. For the reasons mentioned above.

I suggest you go to the monticello.org web site and read what is inscribed at the Jefferson Memorial.

monticello.org/reports/quotes/memorial.html

The predictable reply with forbid, nothing about free exercise.

Meaningless, just as Nativity scenes were rendered meaningless by a small group. Just as meaningless as the Christmas tree Richard Dawkins puts up. We are living in a time of meaningless Christianity for too many. As one priest put it, too many Catholics are actually not living as Catholics but as Agnostics.

Fortunately, that is beginning to change. Catholics do not pray to no one.

Peace,
Ed

 

[The_Barbarian]

I suggest you go to the monticello.org web site and read what is inscribed at the Jefferson Memorial.

I’ve been there. Very nice, especially in the spring. It says there:

Almighty God hath created the mind free…All attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens…are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion…No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship or ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion. I know but one code of morality for men whether acting singly or collectively.

Jefferson, as you might know, was the author of the Virginia Statutes of Religious Freedom, which Madison cited as the inspriation for the first amendment to the Constitution. He was also the Founder who said that meant a wall of separation between church and state.

The predictable reply with forbid, nothing about free exercise.

As with the observation that your right to swing your arm ends where the other guy’s nose begins, your right to worship as you will ends where other people’s right to be free of established religion begins.

Meaningless, just as Nativity scenes were rendered meaningless by a small group. Just as meaningless as the Christmas tree Richard Dawkins puts up. We are living in a time of meaningless Christianity for too many.

True. Many “de minimus” violations do not harm the Constitution, but they do damage to faith.

As one priest put it, too many Catholics are actually not living as Catholics but as Agnostics.

Hence, “In God We Trust”, which has been reduced from an expression of faith to a meaningless formula on a nickel. Faith in God, nickeled and dimed to death.

 

[The_Barbarian]

What did an old horseshoe crab look like? How is it different from one living today?

Lunataspis aurora, (an ancient horseshoe crab) for example, had a somewhat crescent shape, a smaller telson, and was more “arachnoid-like” than modern species.

The’ve changed relatively little over the millenia, but then, they lived in a relatively unchanging environment, as seen by horseshoe crabs.

I don’t think that there is a modern species in the fossil record. I’d be pleased to have someone point one out to me.

 

[edwest2]

I’ve been there. Very nice, especially in the spring. It says there:

Jefferson, as you might know, was the author of the Virginia Statutes of Religious Freedom, which Madison cited as the inspriation for the first amendment to the Constitution. He was also the Founder who said that meant a wall of separation between church and state.

As with the observation that your right to swing your arm ends where the other guy’s nose begins, your right to worship as you will ends where other people’s right to be free of established religion begins.

True. Many “de minimus” violations do not harm the Constitution, but they do damage to faith.

Hence, “In God We Trust”, which has been reduced from an expression of faith to a meaningless formula on a nickel. Faith in God, nickeled and dimed to death.

It is this way only for those who accept it as such. Nothing has changed from my point of view. However, Catholics need to stop living as Agnostics.

The so-called wall of separation does not exist in the Constitution. It was a Supreme Court invention of the late 1940s. Just as I do not wish to force my beliefs on anyone, I expect my free exercise to be respected.

Peace,
Ed

 

[rossum]

One reason I find this hard to accept is that it is claimed that the environment changed dramatically enough to cause these diverse and complex creatures to evolve from single-celled organisms. Then, it is supposed, the environment stopped changing for the next millions of years.

The earth is a very large place. It has many many different environments from the arctic through deserts to rainforests. From high mountains to coastal plains to the continental shelf to the ocean depths. It is perfectly possible for one environment to change quickly while a different environment remains almost unchanged. A spreading desert can greatly impact land animals in its path while in a nearby sea the bottom dwellers are unaffected by the change. The earth is not one environment but many millions of separate environments.

rossum

 

[buffalo]

It is this way only for those who accept it as such. Nothing has changed from my point of view. However, Catholics need to stop living as Agnostics.

The so-called wall of separation does not exist in the Constitution. It was a Supreme Court invention of the late 1940s. Just as I do not wish to force my beliefs on anyone, I expect my free exercise to be respected.

Peace,
Ed

Maybe its time to put a Constitutional Amendment on the books. One that says Christianity is the law of the land. While we are still a majority.