Keep Mormons in your prayers

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DaddyGirl said:
But the Catholic church does baptize children of gay parents.
We’ve had many threads on this forum discussing that very topic.

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Do those gay parents stand in front of the Church and ask for baptism and agree to raise their children in the Catholic faith, including teaching their children that acting on homosexuality is a grave sin?

If so, then that’s great, if not that’s a problem… and at that point whether the Church should moves forward is obviously still somewhat unclear and probably left up to the discretion of the priest and what he knows of those seeking the sacrament for their child. The promise of baptism was made to Christian’s and their parents. Homosexuality when done with full consent and understanding can be a mortal sin, which does cut one off from the grace of God.

Regardless, as a mother to many, I’m certainly sympathetic to the emotions of the children, but as Christians, we don’t base what truth is on emotions, but on God’s word and the Church’s teaching of it. Kids can get upset about many things in life and the situation would need to be handled delicately, but that doesn’t mean you just say truth doesn’t matter.

If the LDS, which in my personal opinion is a false relgiion, feels that is the truth of what their religion teaches, then that’s for them to decide.

Just like when the Pope and Magisterium speak, that is what we as Catholics are to hold as truth. Unfortunately many Catholics seem to forget this as well, and pick and choose what they will believe and follow.

We can have too much pandering to people’s emotions and not enough truth being taught, these days, in many areas of life.
 
From the responses and feedback I have been reading (FB, SLTrib, even DN, etc) many TBMs in their gut are sensing this is not from God. From their leadership, sure, yea. But they sense this new policy is wrong, and not representative of Christ.

For that, I am grateful. And I pray for them who have expressed deep heartbreak, sorry and sadness at the impact of this.

There is a reason that Christofferson (sp?) didnt give an interview to a real jouralist, but rather had a discussion he had with a COB employee put up on YouTube.

His “clarification” raises more questions in my mind than it does answers.

Doubt they have the courage to be interviewed by real journalists.
 
gazelam said:
Thanks for the prayers!!

The SL Tribune article makes the point that the LDS Church already had a similar policy toward polygamous marriages and extended the policy to include same-gender marriage.

sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/3147285-155/new-mormon-policy-on-gay-families
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This is not quite true. The policy for polygamy is that children of polygamists who are practicing polygamy where it is against secular law, cannot have their children baptized. Where polygamy is legal, the children of polygamists can be baptized into the LDS church.

It is completely opposite for this new policy. SSM is legal in the US and other countries, states or cities, and there is no exception given for children who have a homosexual parent or parents, based on whether or not the parent’s marriage was done according to secular law.

Not to mention, this new policy affects children of parents who are divorced. Even when a straight, LDS, parent has sole custody of the child, baptism at the normative time of 8 years old, is denied.
 
DaddyGirl said:
But the Catholic church does baptize children of gay parents.
We’ve had many threads on this forum discussing that very topic.

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Pope Francis, in April of 2015 said this to a group of new priests, at their ordination Mass:
” The official position for Catholic leaders has been that if the parents, straight or same-sex, pledge to raise the child Catholic, then no girl or boy should be refused baptism. Some incidents within the Catholic community have, however, raised questions about if baptizing children of same-sex couples could become a new battleground. Last year a Wisconsin bishop routed all such decisions through his office, for example. This case, and others like it, have caused some priests to believe that the church’s stance against homosexuality extends to the children of homosexual couples. But Pope Francis firmly denies that belief. Francis has previously said that while the church has the right to express its opinion it cannot “interfere” spiritually in the lives of gays and lesbians. As an archbishop in Argentina he stated: “The child has absolutely no responsibility for the state of his parent’s marriage.” As pope, Francis has continued to promote that view by saying all children, no matter their parents’ sexual orientation, deserve access to baptism.
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Read more at World Religion News: “Pope Francis Tells Priests Do Not Deny Baptisms” worldreligionnews.com/?p=13487
 
Padres1969 said:
What would make a Catholic bishop think he could change what the pope is saying on an issue? :confused:
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The bishpos have a great deal of autonomy… Just because the pope says thus and such, doesnt mean the rest of the bisops (of which the pope is one…bishop of rome) are bond it follow it…
 
Padres1969 said:
What would make a Catholic bishop think he could change what the pope is saying on an issue? :confused:
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Diocesan Bishops are largely autonomous, within the communion of all Bishops, and the Pope as their primate. That autonomy is based on their having jurisdiction over their diocese. As Catholics, we are under the jurisdiction of a Bishop, the one who is installed as Bishop of our respective dioceses.

This is Pope Francis exercising his primacy. There is a lot of leeway, from my observations, as to what Bishops actually do, which is not outside of normalcy. Their autonomy over their local churches is not just a formality.
 
RebeccaJ said:
This is Pope Francis exercising his primacy. There is a lot of leeway, from my observations, as to what Bishops actually do, which is not outside of normalcy. Their autonomy over their local churches is not just a formality.
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Is it Pope Francis exercising his primacy? I haven’t seen any “We solemnly define…” kind of statements that would indicate an ex cathedra pronouncement. I’m not aware of the Pope having altered canon 868. Without any such actions aren’t bishops within their rights as the ordinary of their dioceses to say “I respectfully disagree with His Holiness. A same-sex couple in a civil marriage is ipso facto evidence that there is not a “well-founded hope that the child will be brought up in the Catholic religion” and so baptism can be properly denied to children of such couples.”?
 
Brandon_Cal said:
Is it Pope Francis exercising his primacy? I haven’t seen any “We solemnly define…” kind of statements that would indicate an ex cathedra pronouncement. I’m not aware of the Pope having altered canon 868. Without any such actions aren’t bishops within their rights as the ordinary of their dioceses to say “I respectfully disagree with His Holiness. A same-sex couple in a civil marriage is ipso facto evidence that there is not a “well-founded hope that the child will be brought up in the Catholic religion” and so baptism can be properly denied to children of such couples.”?
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I didn’t say, infallible exercise. It is within the Pope’s jurisdiction to instruct all Bishops and Priests.

“But the college or body of bishops has no authority unless it is understood together with the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter as its head. The pope’s power of primacy over all, both pastors and faithful, remains whole and intact. In virtue of his office, that is as Vicar of Christ and pastor of the whole Church, the Roman Pontiff has full, supreme and universal power over the Church. And he is always free to exercise this power. The order of bishops, which succeeds to the college of apostles and gives this apostolic body continued existence, is also the subject of supreme and full power over the universal Church, provided we understand this body together with its head the Roman Pontiff and never without this head.(27*) This power can be exercised only with the consent of the Roman Pontiff. For our Lord placed Simon alone as the rock and the bearer of the keys of the Church,(156) and made him shepherd of the whole flock;(157) it is evident, however, that the power of binding and loosing, which was given to Peter,(158) was granted also to the college of apostles, joined with their head.(159)(28*) This college, insofar as it is composed of many, expresses the variety and universality of the People of God, but insofar as it is assembled under one head, it expresses the unity of the flock of Christ. In it, the bishops, faithfully recognizing the primacy and pre-eminence of their head, exercise their own authority for the good of their own faithful, and indeed of the whole Church, the Holy Spirit supporting its organic structure and harmony with moderation.” - Lumen Gentium, 22.2

And yes, a Bishop is acting within his authority when he makes a judgement for his jurisdiction. I agree, that there are circumstances where a Bishop would make the decision to delay a baptism until the parent(s) understood completely and agreed to their obligation.

Personally, I don’t read the Pope’s remarks as saying just anyone who says, ‘baptize me, or my child!’, means they receive baptism that day. If that were so, there would be no need for CCD or RCIA. There is a required understanding of what one is agreeing to, and for an infant, the required understanding is for the parent(s) and godparent(s).

What the Pope is instructing, is that a same-sex relationship does not ipso facto bar children of such relationships from the sacraments.
 
If that parent whose marriage ended due to homosexual affliction and they had children, but has embraced Church teaching on homosexuality and is living a chaste lifestyle, then yes, that parent would stand before the Church with the desire to baptize their child with the promise to raise them Catholic, and there would be no problem. If they are in a homosexual marriage, I highly doubt they would desire to have their child baptized.

But, if the child of a same-sex couple desired to be baptized, I think they would have to be an adult to go through RCIA. I’m not sure about the age requirement for a minor to enter as a candidate.
heart4home said:
Do those gay parents stand in front of the Church and ask for baptism and agree to raise their children in the Catholic faith, including teaching their children that acting on homosexuality is a grave sin?

If so, then that’s great, if not that’s a problem… and at that point whether the Church should moves forward is obviously still somewhat unclear and probably left up to the discretion of the priest and what he knows of those seeking the sacrament for their child. The promise of baptism was made to Christian’s and their parents. Homosexuality when done with full consent and understanding can be a mortal sin, which does cut one off from the grace of God.

Regardless, as a mother to many, I’m certainly sympathetic to the emotions of the children, but as Christians, we don’t base what truth is on emotions, but on God’s word and the Church’s teaching of it. Kids can get upset about many things in life and the situation would need to be handled delicately, but that doesn’t mean you just say truth doesn’t matter.

If the LDS, which in my personal opinion is a false relgiion, feels that is the truth of what their religion teaches, then that’s for them to decide.

Just like when the Pope and Magisterium speak, that is what we as Catholics are to hold as truth. Unfortunately many Catholics seem to forget this as well, and pick and choose what they will believe and follow.

We can have too much pandering to people’s emotions and not enough truth being taught, these days, in many areas of life.
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