Kenosis

[Monica4316]

I have a question about kenosis. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosis

As I came across the term, it just talks about emptying yourself of your own desires, passions, etc, to receive God more. In that form, it seemed similar to Catholic spiritual writers like St John of the Cross and many approved mystics. I don’t know if I’ve understood correctly. The term is mostly used in the East. I know a lot of the Catholic mystics spoke about emptying yourself of your own will (not as a faculty, as we remain with free will, but letting our will follow God’s Will totally). Is that the same, or slightly different?

When I read the Wikipedia page about it, it talks about a particular point that was condemned by a Pope… (in the Roman Catholic section). The condemned point was that Christ emptied Himself of His Divinity. Of course, that would be wrong because He always stayed God and Man and is still both God and Man in Heaven too.

My question is, the Orthodox don’t teach this condemned point do they? they just talk about the same understanding that Catholics would have of the topic? has anything been said about this?

If any Orthodox posters could help me with the Orthodox understanding that would be great… and my question for Catholics is what the Catholic Church says about this…

what would the Church say about it? I came across the term “kenosis” in some Catholic books… thanks!

 

[thistle]

I have a question about kenosis. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosis

As I came across the term, it just talks about emptying yourself of your own desires, passions, etc, to receive God more. In that form, it seemed similar to Catholic spiritual writers like St John of the Cross and many approved mystics. I don’t know if I’ve understood correctly. The term is mostly used in the East. I know a lot of the Catholic mystics spoke about emptying yourself of your own will (not as a faculty, as we remain with free will, but letting our will follow God’s Will totally). Is that the same, or slightly different?

When I read the Wikipedia page about it, it talks about a particular point that was condemned by a Pope… (in the Roman Catholic section). The condemned point was that Christ emptied Himself of His Divinity. Of course, that would be wrong because He always stayed God and Man and is still both God and Man in Heaven too.

My question is, the Orthodox don’t teach this condemned point do they? they just talk about the same understanding that Catholics would have of the topic? has anything been said about this?

If any Orthodox posters could help me with the Orthodox understanding that would be great… and my question for Catholics is what the Catholic Church says about this…

what would the Church say about it? I came across the term “kenosis” in some Catholic books… thanks!

Modern Catholic Dictionary:

KENOSIS. The voluntary renunciation by Christ of his right to divine privilege in his humble acceptance of human status. Paul describes kenosis aptly to the Philippians: “His state was divine, yet He did not cling to his equality with God, but emptied Himself to assume the condition of a slave” (Philippians 2:6-7). (Etym. Greek kenosis, an emptying.)

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I have a question about kenosis. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosis

As I came across the term, it just talks about emptying yourself of your own desires, passions, etc, to receive God more. In that form, it seemed similar to Catholic spiritual writers like St John of the Cross and many approved mystics. I don’t know if I’ve understood correctly. The term is mostly used in the East. I know a lot of the Catholic mystics spoke about emptying yourself of your own will (not as a faculty, as we remain with free will, but letting our will follow God’s Will totally). Is that the same, or slightly different?

When I read the Wikipedia page about it, it talks about a particular point that was condemned by a Pope… (in the Roman Catholic section). The condemned point was that Christ emptied Himself of His Divinity. Of course, that would be wrong because He always stayed God and Man and is still both God and Man in Heaven too.

My question is, the Orthodox don’t teach this condemned point do they? they just talk about the same understanding that Catholics would have of the topic? has anything been said about this?

If any Orthodox posters could help me with the Orthodox understanding that would be great… and my question for Catholics is what the Catholic Church says about this…

what would the Church say about it? I came across the term “kenosis” in some Catholic books… thanks!

Its an old and perfectly acceptable observation of what Christ did.
I would think it is more Eastern than Western, just as is the case with divinisation theology.

Obviously Jesus cannot deny his Divine nature.
However there is no intrinsic reason why he could not have given up many of the Divine privileges that he could have rightly claimed even in His humanity if he wanted to - e.g. freedom from sickness, death, pain, suffering, ignorance.

This kenosis lies at the very heart of our Redemption as Thistle rightly notes.
We too are called to let go of our alleged “rights” in serving and saving one another.

The Church has never succumbed to the sort of thinking that would have Jesus speaking fluent Aramaic from the moment his infantile larynx developed enough for him to do so.

The jury is still out on how much “ignorance” Jesus took on in becoming human.
Though it is clear some things were always known by his Father but not by Jesus.

 

[arthra]

Thanks for sharing the term “Kenosis” and the meaning: the ‘self-emptying’ of one’s own will and becoming entirely receptive to God’s divine will.

I would offer just a “point of information” that there is a similar concept in the Baha’i Writings as follows:

*“Therefore, the seeker must be endowed with certain qualities. First of all, he must be just and severed from all else save God; his heart must be entirely turned to the supreme horizon; he must be free from the bondage of self and passion, for all these are obstacles. Furthermore, he must be able to endure all hardships. He must be absolutely pure and sanctified, and free from the love or the hatred of the inhabitants of the world. Why? because the fact of his love for any person or thing might prevent him from recognizing the truth in another, and, in the same way, hatred for anything might be a hindrance in discerning truth.”
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 38