Kent!

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BlueShadow123

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Do you guys know who kent hovind is??

drdino.com

I dont know if you’ve ever heard of him, but hes good at proving the evolutionists wrong.

You should check him out! 🙂

He also has great videos on youtube where he debates evolutionists.
 
Hi BlueShadow. Evolution is perfectly compatible with Christianity.
 
Do you guys know who kent hovind is??
Yes, I do know who he is.
I dont know if you’ve ever heard of him, but hes good at proving the evolutionists wrong.
No he is not. He has a lot of very bad, but plausible sounding, arguments that even fellow creationists reject. His grasp of science is tenuous at best. He has a fake ‘degree’ from a degree-mill which he tries to use to impress people. He is one of the worst creationist hucksters out there, though at the moment he is somewhat restricted in what he is able to do.

I strongly suggest that you avoid him as much as possible. He sounds plausible but there is no substance at all behind his empty rhetoric.

rossum
 
He offers a $250,000 prize for anybody who can prove that evolution is true… but it turns out that he’s talking about a “General theory of evolution” which, as far as I can see, is an entirely creationist fabrication and posits all sorts of claims which can never be proven one way or the other. For example, “The universe came from nothing.” In other words, claims that are completely outside the scope of the real theory of evolution. Just about the biggest straw man going.

Then he bleats on about the fact that nobody’s able to prove evolution is true and claim the prize! Clever marketing, but dishonest (dishonesty is part of his creed, it seems - hence his current incarceration).

The only evolution he’s “good at proving wrong” is an evolution that nobody has ever put forward as a theory.

The guy’s a fruit-loop. Advocate his arguments at the risk of your own intellectual credibility…

kent-hovind.com/
 
Im sorry, i did not know this. The videos ive seen he actually makes good points.

I didn’t know his diploma was fake. I do know that he is in jail for tax invasion though. So you guys don’t actually agree with what hes said even though he always lists resources for where he gets his information.
 
Im sorry, i did not know this. The videos ive seen he actually makes good points.
He sounds plausible but when you stop to think about what he says, or investigate it more deeply, it collapses like a house of cards.

Here is an example of one of his arguments:The planet Saturn has rings around it but the rings are moving away from the planet, they are gradually expanding out. They cannot be billions of years old; they would have been gone by now. When voyagers sailed to one of the rings of Saturn, they said it looked like it was braided. They said Man, all these particles are in motion. You cannot keep that finely, braided texture from millions of years. Probably less than 10,000 years is a reasonable estimate. Like the Bible says, the earth was created 6,000 years ago.

Source: jcsm.org/Creation/Hovind/seminar_part1b.html
So what if Saturn’s rings are only about 10,000 years old? I am less than 100 years old. Does that mean that the universe is less than 100 years old? No, of course not, because I am younger than the universe. Similarly with Saturn’s rings. The rings of Saturn are younger than the universe so their age cannot tell us how old the universe is. At best they can give a minimum figure. If the rings are 10,000 years old then the universe is at least 10,000 years old. 10,000 year old rings are not a problem in a 14 billion year old universe. They would be a problem in a 6,000 year old universe.

See what I mean? Hovind sounds superficially plausible but his arguments are so flimsy that they fall apart at the slightest touch.
I didn’t know his diploma was fake. I do know that he is in jail for tax invasion though. So you guys don’t actually agree with what hes said even though he always lists resources for where he gets his information.
Listing resources is not enough. For example, the Bible says that there is no God. See Psalms 14:1, 53:1. Just because I list the resources does not mean that I have interpreted them correctly. Google “quote mining” for references to this practice.

I suggest that you look through Creation Ministries International article: Arguments we think creationists should NOT use. You will find a number of the arguments that Hovind uses listed there. Even other creationists are embarrassed by the ridiculousness of many of Hovind’s arguments.

rossum
 
So what if Saturn’s rings are only about 10,000 years old? I am less than 100 years old. Does that mean that the universe is less than 100 years old?
Although I’m agnostic about Mr. Hovind, your analogy misses the point. If a man were thought to be 100 years old, yet some part of his body which had been observed to steadily grow throughout the life of a human (say, for simplicity’s sake, our bones) showed instead evidence of 30 years of growth, it would be against this evidence to say he was 100. Similarly, if Saturn is thought to be “billions” of years old, but the growth of rings shows only x many years worth of constant expansion, it would seem against the evidence to posit that Saturn was billions of years old.

Also, in your quote Hovind says nothing about “the universe” but only Saturn. You have imposed your own extrapolation. Though, of course, if Saturn is not billions of years old, the next questions may lead to the question of the age of the universe.
 
Similarly, if Saturn is thought to be “billions” of years old, but the growth of rings shows only x many years worth of constant expansion, it would seem against the evidence to posit that Saturn was billions of years old.
You are making a hidden assumption. You are assuming that Saturn’s rings are the same age as Saturn. We can see that other planets do not have elaborate ring systems like Saturn’s so it is not certain that Saturn always had rings. Hovind makes a similar error when he assumes, without evidence, that Saturn’s rings are as old as the universe. That is incorrect.

Going back to your human analogy, it is crucial that the part you examine, bones in your example, are present throughout. If I examined a hair on my head then it would be younger than my bones because hairs fall out and ( mostly 😦 ) regrow. Hovind’s ludicrous argument glosses over the fact that he is looking at a single hair and trying to date the whole body from that.
Also, in your quote Hovind says nothing about “the universe” but only Saturn. You have imposed your own extrapolation. Though, of course, if Saturn is not billions of years old, the next questions may lead to the question of the age of the universe.
That section of Hovind’s arguments is titled, “The Age of the Earth”. Of course to Hovind the universe and Earth were created within a week of each other so he is talking about the ages of both. Other arguments on that same page talk about spinning galaxies and red giant stars. He is indeed trying to show that both Earth and the universe are only 6,000 years old.

rossum
 
You are making a hidden assumption. You are assuming that Saturn’s rings are the same age as Saturn. We can see that other planets do not have elaborate ring systems like Saturn’s so it is not certain that Saturn always had rings. Hovind makes a similar error when he assumes, without evidence, that Saturn’s rings are as old as the universe. That is incorrect.

Going back to your human analogy, it is crucial that the part you examine, bones in your example, are present throughout. If I examined a hair on my head then it would be younger than my bones because hairs fall out and ( mostly 😦 ) regrow. Hovind’s ludicrous argument glosses over the fact that he is looking at a single hair and trying to date the whole body from that.

That section of Hovind’s arguments is titled, “The Age of the Earth”. Of course to Hovind the universe and Earth were created within a week of each other so he is talking about the ages of both. Other arguments on that same page talk about spinning galaxies and red giant stars. He is indeed trying to show that both Earth and the universe are only 6,000 years old.

rossum
Odd that one who denies the validity of sense perception to know the outside world is going out proving the age of Saturn…
 
Odd that one who denies the validity of sense perception to know the outside world is going out proving the age of Saturn…
That is a subject for a different thread. The topic of this thread is Kent Hovind.

rossum
 
Do you guys know who kent hovind is??

drdino.com

I dont know if you’ve ever heard of him, but hes good at proving the evolutionists wrong.

You should check him out! 🙂

He also has great videos on youtube where he debates evolutionists.
Does your religion require you to be a creationist? That is a shame.
 
Does your religion require you to be a creationist? That is a shame.
I agree, were that requirement true (notice the careful use of the subjunctive ;)) However, if you look at this and other threads, you’ll see that the great majority of those who call themselves Catholics believe in some form of evolution, i.e. common descent (as distinguished from one or another proposed mechanisms for evolution, e.g. the Darwinian mechanism of survival of the fittest.) Church dogma and doctrine do not prohibit a belief in evolution. Indeed John Paul II called evolution “more than a hypothesis”, and that no Church teaching prevented Catholics from believing in the bodily descent from lower species.
BUT (and a most important but), we are required to believe that our soul was given to us (this means humankind) by God, and was first given to two humans, Adam and Eve.
 
That is a subject for a different thread. The topic of this thread is Kent Hovind.

rossum
If we disagree about how to do addition, there’s no point discussing the multplication table.

The fact is your epistemology cuts out from under you not only your argument here but your entire methodology.
 
If we disagree about how to do addition, there’s no point discussing the multplication table.

The fact is your epistemology cuts out from under you not only your argument here but your entire methodology.
None of which affects the fact the Kent Hovind is a charlatan who misled people into accepting his rubbish as factual.

Even other creationists were embarrassed by his antics, which says a great deal about how bad he was.

If you want to look at Buddhist epistemology then you can start a thread in Non-Catholic Religions or perhaps Philosophy.

rossum
 
None of which affects the fact the Kent Hovind is a charlatan who misled people into accepting his rubbish as factual.
And of course what you mean by “Kent Hovind” is simply some idea that exists only in your mind and not in reality…in which case, there is no reason for me to argue with you about it, since arguing about imaginary people is pointless.
 
What is your guys’s personal thought on evolution/creationism ?
 
What is your guys’s personal thought on evolution/creationism ?
There is currently a temporary ban on the discussion of evolution in this Forum. See the stickies at the top of this Forum: Temporary Ban on Evolution/Atheism Threads.

Discussion of evolution is allowed, within limits, on the Water Cooler/Back Fence Forum but do read the relevant stickie first. You may want to repost your question there, though I would omit any mention of Kent Hovind if I were you. That way the discussion will focus on evolution rather than on Mr Hovind.

rossum
 
There is currently a temporary ban on the discussion of evolution in this Forum. See the stickies at the top of this Forum: Temporary Ban on Evolution/Atheism Threads.

Discussion of evolution is allowed, within limits, on the Water Cooler/Back Fence Forum but do read the relevant stickie first. You may want to repost your question there, though I would omit any mention of Kent Hovind if I were you. That way the discussion will focus on evolution rather than on Mr Hovind.

rossum
Yeah - ‘temporary’… right…
 
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