Key vs keys

[Montalban]

I have been reading some of Stephen K Ray’s book on papal primacy.

He draws a link between the single key given to David (in Isaiah) and the many keys given to Peter (in Matthew).

Which Church Fathers commented on this also?

 

[Todd_Easton]

It is not surprising that Mr. Ray would see a link between the “key” of Isaiah 22:22 and the “keys” of Matthew 16:19 since Isaiah 22:22 is one of only two places in the Old Testament where the word “key” appears; the other is Judges 3:25.

 

[DavidFilmer]

Phil Vaz (who also happens to be a highly respected member on this forum) posted an extensive exposition of this subject (originally by Mark Bonocore, in a debate with protestant apologist James White) here.

It is one of the finest works of Catholic apologetics that I have read.

 

[Todd_Easton]

He draws a link between the single key given to David (in Isaiah) and the many keys given to Peter (in Matthew).

Which Church Fathers commented on this also?

Actually, Isaiah 22 is about the key of the house of David being taken away from steward Shebna and being given to steward Eliakim, during the reign of king Hezekiah.

Sorry, I couldn’t find any Early Church Fathers that mention the key of Isaiah 22:22 in any context whatsoever.

 

[DavidFilmer]

Sorry, I couldn’t find any Early Church Fathers that mention the key of Isaiah 22:22 in any context whatsoever.

Then you did not read the response that I posted (for example, the writings of St. John Cassian, who explicitly relates Isaiah 22:22 to Peter)

 

[Montalban]

It is not surprising that Mr. Ray would see a link between the “key” of Isaiah 22:22 and the “keys” of Matthew 16:19 since Isaiah 22:22 is one of only two places in the Old Testament where the word “key” appears; the other is Judges 3:25.

Mr Ray is no Church Father.

‘key’ is also mentioned in Luke.
Luke 11:52
“Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.”

And in Revelations

 

[Montalban]

Phil Vaz (who also happens to be a highly respected member on this forum) posted an extensive exposition of this subject (originally by Mark Bonocore, in a debate with protestant apologist James White) here.

It is one of the finest works of Catholic apologetics that I have read.

I e-mailed him some days ago.

The only one he has who has a definite connection is Aphraates. He also suggests that John Cassian makes the connection too, but that’s his speculation.

So apart from Aphraates, I was wondering if anyone knows of any Church Fathers who make the connection between key/keys?

 

[Montalban]

Then you did not read the response that I posted (for example, the writings of St. John Cassian, who explicitly relates Isaiah 22:22 to Peter)

Where does he EXPLICITLY relate the key/keys?

Even if I were to give you Cassian (and I don’t), that’s two in 2,000 years, hardly the ‘mind of the church’ on the matter

 

[MarcoPolo]

hardly the ‘mind of the church’ on the matter

If there is not an explicit reference to that specific verse connection beyond 1 or 2 ECFs in the texts we have, then what? I’m unclear. Are you saying therefore there is no textual parallel between the 2 verses then?

 

[Montalban]

If there is not an explicit reference to that specific verse connection beyond 1 or 2 ECFs in the texts we have, then what?

That’s what I want to find out - hence the OP.

As far as I know there’s only 1 single person who made the connection - and that hardly constitutes ‘the mind of the church’.

However if you know of more, I’d be interested to see the citations.

I’m unclear. Are you saying therefore there is no textual parallel between the 2 verses then?

Fortunately you don’t rely on (what I see as) a rather silly challenge of PhilVaz’s web-site where he says
“Yet, can you provide any patristic evidence saying that Matt 16:19 does not refer to Isaiah 22?”
philvaz.com/apologetics/num18.htm

However, in answering you; I rely on the Church Fathers for this and if they don’t see it, then I don’t either.

From what I do know is that in general some Protestants in the last 200 years started making the connection and Catholic apologists have taken up on this. Ray and other Catholic apologists have relied on Protestant studies to make the connection. From what I see it’s a rather embarrassing trend of Catholic writers to simply accept the writer before them, without looking back further into the teachings of the church

(Though there was an earlier Catholic writer - De Salles who mentioned the connection - but his work remained largely unknown till the 1800s.)

However, as noted in the OP I am looking for ECFs that believed in the connection

 

[Montalban]

It is not surprising that Mr. Ray would see a link between the “key” of Isaiah 22:22 and the “keys” of Matthew 16:19 since Isaiah 22:22 is one of only two places in the Old Testament where the word “key” appears; the other is Judges 3:25.

Sorry, I forgot to add this:

a) there’s
1 Chronicles 9:27
They would spend the night stationed around the house of God, because they had to guard it; and they had charge of the** key** for opening it each morning.

as well as another in Isaiah…

Isaiah 33:6
He will be the sure foundation for your times, a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge; the fear of the LORD is the **key **to this treasure.

and

b) your statement appears a non-sequitur.

IF there are other mentions - you acknowledge Judges then why does it follow that it can only refer to Isaiah?

 

[Montalban]

Erratum: Above I mentioned “I e-mailed him”. The ‘him’ in the post I replied to refers to Mark Bonocore.

I missed seeing this, so my post is incorrect. It was PhilVaz I e-mailed. PhilVaz works the same site.

However PhilVaz gave me the same information however, only one, maybe two ECFs

 

[Todd_Easton]

Sorry, I forgot to add this:

a) there’s
1 Chronicles 9:27
They would spend the night stationed around the house of God, because they had to guard it; and they had charge of the** key** for opening it each morning.

as well as another in Isaiah…

Isaiah 33:6
He will be the sure foundation for your times, a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge; the fear of the LORD is the **key **to this treasure.

and

b) your statement appears a non-sequitur.

IF there are other mentions - you acknowledge Judges then why does it follow that it can only refer to Isaiah?

It is my understanding that the Hebrew word for *key *(maphteach, Strong #4668) occurs 3 times in the Old Testament, at least that is what my cheap Bible software says, where it is translated in the King James Version as *key *in both Isaiah 22:22 and Judges 3:38 and as opening in 1 Chronicles 9:27.

Judges 3:38 concerns the key belonging to the servants of the house of Eglon, the pagan king of Moab, an enemy of the Israelites. Since Jesus is a Davidic king, this verse would probably not be the first thing the apostles thought about of when Jesus said he was going to give Peter the keys to God’s kingdom.

I am not exactly sure what the maphteach mentioned in 1 Chronicles 9 is because at that time the house of the LORD was the meeting tent (1 Chronicles 9:23) and I think linen curtains were used to cover the doorways in the meeting tent instead of locking wooden doors. Do curtains have locks? This is probably why the King James Version I was using before translates it as *opening *instead of key. Anyway, this *maphteach *belonged to the Levite doorkeepers and porters of the Lord’s house, who were also in charge of the sacred vessels and treasures in the Lord’s house, first for the meeting tent and later, I think, for the Temple in Jerusalem. It is possible that the apostles thought about this maphteach when Jesus said he was going to give Peter the keys of God’s kingdom. Perhaps the idea that Peter is the gatekeeper at Heaven’s pearly gates comes from this association, I don’t know, but I don’t think this association is correct, as the power to bind and loose on earth (Mt 16:20) associated with the keys given to Peter seems to refer to this earthly life not the afterlife.

Also, since Jesus elsewhere (Luke 12:39-46; Matthew 24:43-51) speaks to Peter and the other apostles privately about how the faithful and wise servant whom his master has set over his household until his return ought to act, I think it is fairly obvious that the keys of Matthew 16 are meant to evoke Isaiah 22 in the minds of the apostles because Isaiah 22 concerns the key to the house of David given to the steward who is over the household of good king Hezekiah.

 

[Porknpie]

If there is not an explicit reference to that specific verse connection beyond 1 or 2 ECFs in the texts we have, then what? I’m unclear. Are you saying therefore there is no textual parallel between the 2 verses then?

It should also be noted that underneath the high alter at St. Peters, in the immediate area of St. Peters remains, there are all kinds of “key” symbols written into the walls. The early church related immediately to St. Peter having the keys to the kingdom and they understood the old testament parallel and foreshadowing that Christ as King, gave St. Peter the keys as his prime minister while he was away. Keys that give St. Peter and his successors the authority & power to bind and loose and to make decisions on earth.

 

[Montalban]

It is my understanding that the Hebrew word for *key *(maphteach, Strong #4668) occurs 3 times in the Old Testament, at least that is what my cheap Bible software says, where it is translated in the King James Version as *key *in both Isaiah 22:22 and Judges 3:38 and as opening in 1 Chronicles 9:27.

I appreciate your views on this (albeit a non sequitur*), but do you have any reason for this belief based on any Church Fathers?

That is the reason for my OP.

All you are doing is giving me your opinion, which I can get from
Binz, S., (2011) Peter: Fisherman and Shepherd of the Church (Brazos Press; Grand Rapids, MI), p31.
Currie, D. B., (1996) Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic (Ignatius Press; San Fransisco, CA), p80.
Fr. Ponessa, J., & Manhardt, L. W., (2004) Prophets and Apostles: A “Come and See” Catholic Bible Study (Emmaus Road Publishing; Steubenville, OH), p166.
Ray, S., (1996) Upon This Rock: St. Peter and the Primacy of Rome in Scripture and the Early Church (Ignatius Press; San Francisco, CA), p40.
Salza, J., (2007) The Biblical Basis for the Papacy (Our Sunday Visitor Publishing Division; Huntington, IN), p64.

and so on

If there’s no ECF consensus on this then I must conclude that Catholics are finding a new source of knowledge for this

*- there’s nothing to say that the single key in Isaiah MUST relate to the keys in Matthew (it could relate to the key in Revelations just as easily)

 

[Montalban]

It should also be noted that underneath the high alter at St. Peters, in the immediate area of St. Peters remains, there are all kinds of “key” symbols written into the walls. The early church related immediately to St. Peter having the keys to the kingdom and they understood the old testament parallel and foreshadowing that Christ as King, gave St. Peter the keys as his prime minister while he was away. Keys that give St. Peter and his successors the authority & power to bind and loose and to make decisions on earth.

What evidence do you have that the early church related the keys of St. Peter with David’s key?

 

[MarcoPolo]

the Church Fathers for this and if they don’t see it, then I don’t either.

Three things: 1) I have not seen anywhere that the ECFs “don’t see it.” That would be to argue from the silence you say exists here. It would be like citing Athanasius’ shorter canon list in his 39th letter and assuming he therefore “rejected” the Deuterocanon. 2) Therefore, I think to deny the textual parallel between Matt 16 and Is 22 is specious when the texts line up so closely; And 3) There’s an abundance of ECFs that interpret the Matthew 16 keys as the Lord’s gift especially to Peter –– so the theology is certainly there among the ECFs. I don’t see any “gotcha” at work here.

I also think the St. John Cassian association that you dismissed is a theological association with Is. 22, but at any rate…

 

[novusCatholic]

It seems reasonable to me to accept that the Church Fathers quoted below were speaking in the context of the keys of stewardship from Isaiah 22. The Church Fathers understood the primacy of Peter and the concept of a single chair.

Tertullian

“[T]he Lord said to Peter, ‘On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. . . . Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church” (Modesty 21:9–10 [A.D. 220]).

Origen

“*f we were to attend carefully to the Gospels, we should also find, in relation to those things which seem to be common to Peter . . . a great difference and a preeminence in the things [Jesus] said to Peter, compared with the second class [of apostles]. For it is no small difference that Peter received the keys not of one heaven but of more, and in order that whatsoever things he binds on earth may be bound not in one heaven but in them all, as compared with the many who bind on earth and loose on earth, so that these things are bound and loosed not in [all] the heavens, as in the case of Peter, but in one only; for they do not reach so high a stage with power as Peter to bind and loose in all the heavens” (Commentary on Matthew 13:31 [A.D. 248]).

Cyril of Jerusalem

In the power of the same Holy Spirit, Peter, both the chief of the apostles and the keeper of the keys of the kingdom of heaven, in the name of Christ healed Aeneas the paralytic at Lydda, which is now called Diospolis [Acts 9 ;3 2-3 4] (Catechetical Lectures 17;27 [A.D. 350]).

Ambrose of Milan

“[Christ] made answer: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church. . . .’ Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church [Matt. 16:18]?” (The Faith 4:5 [A.D. 379]).*

 

[steve_b]

What evidence do you have that the early church related the keys of St. Peter with David’s key?

(Aphraates, xxi, :13, c 330 a.d.). newadvent.org/fathers/370121.htm Notice all the associations he makes building up to his point. How many times does he mention David? 12 times.

1. Also David was persecuted, as Jesus was persecuted. David was anointed by Samuel to be king instead of Saul who had sinned; and Jesus was anointed by John to be High Priest instead of the priests, the ministers of the Law. David was persecuted after his anointing; and Jesus was persecuted after His anointing. David reigned first over one tribe only, and afterwards over all Israel; and Jesus reigned from the beginning over the few who believed on Him, and in the end He will reign over all the world. Samuel anointed David when he was thirty years old; and Jesus when about thirty years old received the imposition of the hand from John. David wedded two daughters of the king; and Jesus wedded two daughters of kings, the congregation of the People and the congregation of the Gentiles. David repaid good to Saul his enemy; and Jesus taught, Pray for your enemies. Luke 6:28 David was the heart of God; 1 Samuel 13:14 and Jesus was the Son of God. David received the kingdom of Saul his persecutor; and Jesus received the kingdom of Israel His persecutor. David wept with dirges over Saul his enemy when he died; and Jesus wept over Jerusalem, His persecutor, which was to be laid waste. David handed over the kingdom to Solomon, and was gathered to his people; and Jesus handed over the keys to Simon, and ascended and returned to Him who sent Him. For David’s sake, sins were forgiven to his posterity; and for Jesus’ sake sins are forgiven to the nations.

also

this article. References to Ephrem, & Syrian tradition

syrianchurch.org/Articles/PrimacyofStPeter.htm

 

[lyrikal]

If there’s no ECF consensus on this then I must conclude that Catholics are finding a new source of knowledge for this

*- there’s nothing to say that the single key in Isaiah MUST relate to the keys in Matthew (it could relate to the key in Revelations just as easily)

You’re looking for a consensus? Please find me a consensus from the Early Church Fathers that speak about Christ having two wills in the first 5 centuries of Christianity. How many Church Fathers spoke about this? Can you list some quotes for us? Show us a consensus please.

You keep bringing up the fact that only St. John spoke about the comparison. How about Aphraates the Sage writing in 330 AD? He alludes to it here:

“David handed over the Kingdom to Solomon and was gathered to his people; and Jesus handed over the Keys to Simon and ascended and returned to Him Who sent Him.” (Aphraates, xxi, 13).

steve b has the full quote and it seems that the context supports the parallels between the two passages.

Blessings.