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ronzstc312
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Hope to hear from you soon…
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FatherOfTwelve
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ronzstc312
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franc1sc0
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ronzstc312
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ronzstc312
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Guys hope you’re not offended of all my statements. I’m doing a research, I’m just doing with what the bible says Jeremiah 6.16
I’m a Catholic seeking for the truth, hope you could bear with me.
Thanks a lot
I’m a Catholic seeking for the truth, hope you could bear with me.
Thanks a lot
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franc1sc0
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ronzstc312
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franc1sc0
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franc1sc0;10438647:
I am not eating my words. I dont see where you have left me speechless or dumbfounded.
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FatherOfTwelve
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ronzstc312
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ronzstc312;10438654:
God, you can’t even understand. See yah bro. Don’t bother answering my question if you can’t understand it ok?I am not eating my words. I dont see where you have left me speechless or dumbfounded.
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ronzstc312
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ronzstc312;10438614:
Thanks a lot !!!:extrahappy:
Will read it tomorrow, need to sleep now… God bless you… Goodnight
Do not come to prayer with a guilty conscience." Epistle of Barnabas, 19:12 (A.D. 74).
“In church confess your sins, and do not come to your prayer with a guilt conscience. Such is the Way of Life…On the Lord’s own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks; but first confess your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure." Didache, 4:14,14:1 (c. A.D. 90).
“Such are the words and deeds by which, in our own district of the Rhone, they have deluded many women, who have their consciences seared as with a hot iron. Some of them, indeed, make a public confession of their sins; but others of them are ashamed to do this, and in a tacit kind of way, despairing of [attaining to] the life of God, have, some of them, apostatized altogether; while others hesitate between the two courses, and incur that which is implied in the proverb, ‘neither without nor within;’ possessing this as the fruit from the seed of the children of knowledge.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:13 (A.D. 180).
“Father who knowest the hearts of all grant upon this Thy servant whom Thou hast chosen for the episcopate to feed Thy holy flock and serve as Thine high priest, that he may minister blamelessly by night and day, that he may unceasingly behold and appropriate Thy countenance and offer to Thee the gifts of Thy holy Church. And that by the high priestly Spirit he may have authority to forgive sins…” Hippolytus, Apostolic Tradition, 3 (A.D. 215).
“For although in smaller sins sinners may do penance for a set time, and according to the rules of discipline come to public confession, and by imposition of the hand of the bishop and clergy receive the right of communion: now with their time still unfulfilled, while persecution is still raging, while the peace of the Church itself is not vet restored, they are admitted to communion, and their name is presented; and while the penitence is not yet performed, confession is not yet made, the hands Of the bishop and clergy are not yet laid upon them, the eucharist is given to them; although it is written, ‘Whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.’” Cyprian, To the Clergy, 9 (16):2 (A.D. 250).
“Moreover, how much are they both greater in faith and better in their fear, who, although bound by no crime of sacrifice to idols or of certificate, yet, since they have even thought of such things, with grief and simplicity confess this very thing to God’s priests, and make the conscientious avowal, put off from them the load of their minds, and seek out the salutary medicine even for slight and moderate wounds, knowing that it is written, ‘God is not mocked.’ God cannot be mocked, nor deceived, nor deluded by any deceptive cunning. Yea, he sins the more, who, thinking that God is like man, believes that he evades the penalty of his crime if he has not openly admitted his crime…I entreat you, beloved brethren, that each one should confess his own sin, while he who has sinned is still in this world, while his confession may be received, while the satisfaction and remission made by the priests are pleasing to the Lord?” Cyprian, To the Lapsed, 28-29 (A.D. 251).
“It is necessary to confess our sins to those whom the dispensation of God’s mysteries is entrusted.” Basil, Rule Briefly Treated, 288 (A.D. 374).
“For if any one will consider how great a thing it is for one, being a man, and compassed with flesh and blood, to be enabled to draw nigh to that blessed and pure nature, he will then clearly see what great honor the grace of the Spirit has vouchsafed to priests; since by their agency these rites are celebrated, and others nowise inferior to these both in respect of our dignity and our salvation. For they who inhabit the earth and make their abode there are entrusted with the administration of things which are in Heaven, and have received an authority which God has not given to angels or archangels. For it has not been said to them, ‘Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.’ They who rule on earth have indeed authority to bind, but only the body: whereas this binding lays hold of the soul and penetrates the heavens; and what priests do here below God ratifies above, and the Master confirms the sentence of his servants. For indeed what is it but all manner of heavenly authority which He has given them when He says, ‘Whose sins ye remit they are remitted, and whose sins ye retain they are retained?’ What authority could be greater than this? ‘The Father hath committed all judgment to the Son?’ But I see it all put into the hands of these men by the Son.” John Chrysostom, The Priesthood, 3:5 (A.D. 387).
“All mortal sins are to be submitted to the keys of the Church and all can be forgiven; but recourse to these keys is the only, the necessary, and the certain way to forgiveness. Unless those who are guilty of grievous sin have recourse to the power of the keys, they cannot hope for eternal salvation. Open your lips, them, and confess your sins to the priest. Confession alone is the true gate to Heaven.” Augustine, Christian Combat (A.D. 397).
From: scripturecatholic.com/confession.html
Are you more wise than the Fathers of the Church? Who has given you the authority to speak against the Church?
“In church confess your sins, and do not come to your prayer with a guilt conscience. Such is the Way of Life…On the Lord’s own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks; but first confess your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure." Didache, 4:14,14:1 (c. A.D. 90).
“Such are the words and deeds by which, in our own district of the Rhone, they have deluded many women, who have their consciences seared as with a hot iron. Some of them, indeed, make a public confession of their sins; but others of them are ashamed to do this, and in a tacit kind of way, despairing of [attaining to] the life of God, have, some of them, apostatized altogether; while others hesitate between the two courses, and incur that which is implied in the proverb, ‘neither without nor within;’ possessing this as the fruit from the seed of the children of knowledge.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:13 (A.D. 180).
“Father who knowest the hearts of all grant upon this Thy servant whom Thou hast chosen for the episcopate to feed Thy holy flock and serve as Thine high priest, that he may minister blamelessly by night and day, that he may unceasingly behold and appropriate Thy countenance and offer to Thee the gifts of Thy holy Church. And that by the high priestly Spirit he may have authority to forgive sins…” Hippolytus, Apostolic Tradition, 3 (A.D. 215).
“For although in smaller sins sinners may do penance for a set time, and according to the rules of discipline come to public confession, and by imposition of the hand of the bishop and clergy receive the right of communion: now with their time still unfulfilled, while persecution is still raging, while the peace of the Church itself is not vet restored, they are admitted to communion, and their name is presented; and while the penitence is not yet performed, confession is not yet made, the hands Of the bishop and clergy are not yet laid upon them, the eucharist is given to them; although it is written, ‘Whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.’” Cyprian, To the Clergy, 9 (16):2 (A.D. 250).
“Moreover, how much are they both greater in faith and better in their fear, who, although bound by no crime of sacrifice to idols or of certificate, yet, since they have even thought of such things, with grief and simplicity confess this very thing to God’s priests, and make the conscientious avowal, put off from them the load of their minds, and seek out the salutary medicine even for slight and moderate wounds, knowing that it is written, ‘God is not mocked.’ God cannot be mocked, nor deceived, nor deluded by any deceptive cunning. Yea, he sins the more, who, thinking that God is like man, believes that he evades the penalty of his crime if he has not openly admitted his crime…I entreat you, beloved brethren, that each one should confess his own sin, while he who has sinned is still in this world, while his confession may be received, while the satisfaction and remission made by the priests are pleasing to the Lord?” Cyprian, To the Lapsed, 28-29 (A.D. 251).
“It is necessary to confess our sins to those whom the dispensation of God’s mysteries is entrusted.” Basil, Rule Briefly Treated, 288 (A.D. 374).
“For if any one will consider how great a thing it is for one, being a man, and compassed with flesh and blood, to be enabled to draw nigh to that blessed and pure nature, he will then clearly see what great honor the grace of the Spirit has vouchsafed to priests; since by their agency these rites are celebrated, and others nowise inferior to these both in respect of our dignity and our salvation. For they who inhabit the earth and make their abode there are entrusted with the administration of things which are in Heaven, and have received an authority which God has not given to angels or archangels. For it has not been said to them, ‘Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.’ They who rule on earth have indeed authority to bind, but only the body: whereas this binding lays hold of the soul and penetrates the heavens; and what priests do here below God ratifies above, and the Master confirms the sentence of his servants. For indeed what is it but all manner of heavenly authority which He has given them when He says, ‘Whose sins ye remit they are remitted, and whose sins ye retain they are retained?’ What authority could be greater than this? ‘The Father hath committed all judgment to the Son?’ But I see it all put into the hands of these men by the Son.” John Chrysostom, The Priesthood, 3:5 (A.D. 387).
“All mortal sins are to be submitted to the keys of the Church and all can be forgiven; but recourse to these keys is the only, the necessary, and the certain way to forgiveness. Unless those who are guilty of grievous sin have recourse to the power of the keys, they cannot hope for eternal salvation. Open your lips, them, and confess your sins to the priest. Confession alone is the true gate to Heaven.” Augustine, Christian Combat (A.D. 397).
From: scripturecatholic.com/confession.html
Are you more wise than the Fathers of the Church? Who has given you the authority to speak against the Church?
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ronzstc312
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Appreciate your reply,
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I want a scripture from the bible cause I believe the bible is the word of God. Hope you can provide context from the bible although I haven't read it full yet. I'll read your post again.scripturecatholic.com/confession.html
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PJM
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This a great example of absolutely needing “the REST of the story” W/O disagreeing with the above
Shortly before Ascending Back into heaven Jesus expanded the Mission of His Apostles to include cf. “The Entire World”; which by absolute necessity requires Succession. Succession can only be effective if the “successors” have the same Powers and Authority Christ granted exclusively to His Apostles.
Mark 16:14-15 " At length he appeared to the eleven as they were at table: and he upbraided them with their incredulity and hardness of heart, because they did not believe them who had seen him after he was risen again. And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature. "
Matthew 28:19-20 “Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”
So ALL of the Authority granted to Peter and the Apostles remains current with our Pope and the CC.
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Nita
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If you hold that subsequent to the death of the apostles forgiveness of sins could be obtained by only private interior confession and repentance, then I challenge you to show us a Scripture passage where Jesus explained this power to forgive and retain sin was only temporary – that it would last only as long as the apostles live but after that it would change and be easier! If that is what you believe Jesus set up for His Church, then you have a responsibility to show that procedures He established for the heads of His Church were meant to be only temporary – very temporary when compared to the thousands of years that would subsequently follow.
Paul, who was not one of the original apostles addressed in John 20:23, has this to say:
2 Cor 5:18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the** ministry **of reconciliation;
Reconciliation is the reconciling of man with God thru forgiveness of sins. Jesus obtained the graces of our reconciliation/forgiveness, and thru the priest He bestows those graces on us. Paul, not one of the original 12, subsequently had this ministry bestowed on him.
If you take the time to think about it, you’ll realize that what Jesus set up was a Church – and visible institution - to last to the end of the ages and He appointed the first leaders.
(Eg. If you established a school that you financed so it could last for a millenium, and appointed the first principal and teachers with directives as to their roles, would you expect that after their death there would no longer be any leaders in that school with authority to carry out those roles you determined???)
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paulrxp
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We know you’re emphasized John 20:23 several times, if as you understand it that it doesn’t explicitly say the apostles can forgive the sins, and that they don’t have the authority. I’m just curious as to who you think Jesus is speaking with?
St Irenaeus is among the many quotes that I posted. St Irenaeus was taught by St Polycarp. St Polycarp was trained by St John the Apostle. Martin Luther accepted confession; I’d say that he was more Catholic than you are now.
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Abu
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That is quite irrelevant to the Christ specifically conveying the power to forgive sins to His Apostles as you now know from Jn 20:21-23.
Why do you masquerade as a “Catholic”?
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How naïve. Jn 20:21: “As the Father has sent Me, even so I send you.” So, from these solemn words the Christ sent His Apostles out clothed with His power. To whom? With His authority to all nations even to the consummation of the world.(Mt 28:18-20).
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Nowhere did the Christ promise that the Apostolic miracles would be a constant feature. The great St John Chrysostom in the fourth century explained that that provision was no longer necessary once the Church had taken root. The action of the Holy Spirit in safeguarding and transmitting the faith through Christ’s Magisterium continued, and St Paul (Acts 20:28) admonished the bishops to take heed of the whole flock entrusted to their care.
The same Church founded By Our Lord has given us Her Sacred Scriptures as the inspired Word of God and from which we are warned:
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them” (Mt 7:15, 16).
Why? Because the Church is “the pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15).
Those who accept Christ’s Church have His Mystical Body the pillar and ground of the truth – “You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church.” (Mt 16:18)
“Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” (Mt 16:19). Those who continue to deny Christ will be denied by Him to His Father in heaven (Mt 10:13).
St. Paul has counseled you as to whom to avoid: “Preach the word. Be urgent in season, out of season; reprove, entreat, rebuke with all patience and teaching. For there will come a time when far from being content with sound teaching, people are avid for the latest novelty and collect themselves a whole series of teachers according to their own tastes.” (2 Tim 4:3).
“That we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive.” (Eph 4:14).
St. Paul says also, “through the Church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places (Eph 3:10).” The Church teaches even the angels! This is with the authority of Christ!
St John counsels you: “We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.” (1 Jn 4:6 ).
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