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catharina
Guest
See Post 95.
OP agreed with pug’s post re his ageist notions.
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OP agreed with pug’s post re his ageist notions.
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canadianguy1143
Guest
Yes you kept bringing it up that he considered the pew his personal ownership. Despite clear explanations from the OP about what he meant by the title of the thread you were obtuse when you said this on post #68:
Apparently you did as otherwise you wouldn’t have said that.
Actually I don’t think you get it. Church seating is based primarily on a first come first served basis. Get it?
I would agree with that but since the lady initiated it, then she is the culpable one.
Glad to hear it.
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canadianguy1143
Guest
JRKH;6853559**:
Yes we do have the responsibility to admonish the ignorant. There is also the time and place for such admonishments. Such admonishments need to be Christian and Loving.
Since the lady in question is not likely to be reading this thread, I’d say the thread is much more about the OP and those responding to the OP than it is about the rude lady.
You are right there is no “second set of 10 commandments” There is also not “proviso” about rudeness in “turn the other cheek”, even though you would like there to be…
Peace
James
No problem JRKH. I apologise if I came on too strong.
Interesting that of the quotes provided you only addressed the one about turning the other Cheek… and ignored that we are to give more than is demanded of us and to do good to those who hate us…
Yes we do have the responsibility to admonish the ignorant. There is also the time and place for such admonishments. Such admonishments need to be Christian and Loving.
Since the lady in question is not likely to be reading this thread, I’d say the thread is much more about the OP and those responding to the OP than it is about the rude lady.
You are right there is no “second set of 10 commandments” There is also not “proviso” about rudeness in “turn the other cheek”, even though you would like there to be…
Peace
James
No problem JRKH. I apologise if I came on too strong.
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catharina
Guest
**Church seating is based on a first come, first served basis?
This is not a movie theatre or a restaurant.
Attendance at Mass, and choice of seating is based on obedience
to a loving, generous God and our own loving kindness to others!
Love God, love your neighbor, is not only for outside the Church!**
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Adeodatus
Guest
Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of people who think that “humility” means something like “slavish obedience to evildoers” or “extreme tolerance of sin”.
While this is overall a small incident, I think this attitude about humility is ultimately very destructive to the Church, as the present decades have borne out. But to say much more on the state of affairs in the Church is basically not allowed to be discussed on CAF.
No one should equate humility with spinelessness. Spinelessness is what has gotten us to where we are today. Spinelessness is a vice.
The OP had the opportunity to do this woman a favor, an opportunity which he sadly missed. Granted, hindsight is 20/20 and it’s hard to overcome your conditioning in the moment. But a much more appropriate response would have been “Madame, I’m praying the Rosary.” and then simply to resume praying. If she persisted in interrupting the prayers, then I think an utterance of “Get behind me, Satan” would have been indicated.
Unfortunately the enemy scored some points this round: the Rosary was interrupted, your peace was lost (that nagging feeling must have been your sense of right and wrong, telling you that you let a bully win), and a sinner was confirmed in her sin.
Now it is true that you were before the Real Presence of the Lord. So you should conduct yourself in a righteous way, and not with baseness or pridefulness. But tugging your forelock is also not righteous, it’s an escape. And don’t forget to pray for this woman and the respondents on this thread.
While this is overall a small incident, I think this attitude about humility is ultimately very destructive to the Church, as the present decades have borne out. But to say much more on the state of affairs in the Church is basically not allowed to be discussed on CAF.
No one should equate humility with spinelessness. Spinelessness is what has gotten us to where we are today. Spinelessness is a vice.
The OP had the opportunity to do this woman a favor, an opportunity which he sadly missed. Granted, hindsight is 20/20 and it’s hard to overcome your conditioning in the moment. But a much more appropriate response would have been “Madame, I’m praying the Rosary.” and then simply to resume praying. If she persisted in interrupting the prayers, then I think an utterance of “Get behind me, Satan” would have been indicated.
Unfortunately the enemy scored some points this round: the Rosary was interrupted, your peace was lost (that nagging feeling must have been your sense of right and wrong, telling you that you let a bully win), and a sinner was confirmed in her sin.
Now it is true that you were before the Real Presence of the Lord. So you should conduct yourself in a righteous way, and not with baseness or pridefulness. But tugging your forelock is also not righteous, it’s an escape. And don’t forget to pray for this woman and the respondents on this thread.
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catharina
Guest
How dare you say she sinned?
You know nothing about her.
You can’t know if she sinned.
The simple response would have been to move over - and offer a Hail Mary for her.
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kozlosap
Guest
I attend 7:30 am Mass every Sunday (except in two weeks when I will be at Disney World!) and sit in “my place”. If someone beats me to my pew, yes I’m disconboobilated, but just move on down and find another empty pew. I’m 57 and a high school teacher and even though I can’t imagine that woman demanding that the OP move, I would not confront her. She obviously has problems and we should pray that she is relieved of her anxiety and obnoxious behavior. I’m teetering on being a senior citizen (57) and if I ever become demanding because of age, I hope some other kind person will take me aside and remind me of my humanity. This is a great thread - I think most of us have been involved in these kind of situations and can learn from each other on how to handle them.
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puzzleannie
Guest
lyou might as well learn now that you sometimes have to cut the elderly some slack, they are not going to change at their age, (maybe I should say “we”) and often have some disability like hardening of the arteries that impedes their mental processes and affects behavior. It is fitting for the youngsters among us to make allowances. Your peace of mind would have been much less disrupted had you simply moved over and forgiven her silently. Since your peace of mind is the issue, why not simply consider how your own reactions affect it, since you cannot change what others do.
for the record, unless you belong to one of those churches where people pay pew rent, it is not “your” pew any more than it is hers. You don’t get a deed when you sit down. Common church etiquette specifies everybody makes room for everybody else and there should be no reserved seating unless there is a special reason, like first communions. We are supposed to be overjoyed at all the Catholics coming together in community, not resentful that our seat, our silent prayer time, or our undoubtedly superior meditation has been disturbed.
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catharina
Guest
For all you’ve said: :clapping::clapping::clapping:I attend 7:30 am Mass every Sunday (except in two weeks when I will be at Disney World!) and sit in “my place”. If someone beats me to my pew, yes I’m disconboobilated, but just move on down and find another empty pew. I’m 57 and a high school teacher and even though I can’t imagine that woman demanding that the OP move, I would not confront her. She obviously has problems and we should pray that she is relieved of her anxiety and obnoxious behavior. I’m teetering on being a senior citizen (57) and if I ever become demanding because of age, I hope some other kind person will take me aside and remind me of my humanity. This is a great thread - I think most of us have been involved in these kind of situations and can learn from each other on how to handle them.
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catharina
Guest
Yes. Of course.
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canadianguy1143
Guest
I never said it was a movie theatre or a restaurant. How do people in your parish decide to which seat to sit? Is there reserved seating in your parish?
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catharina
Guest
Of course there is no reserved seating in my CATHOLIC parish.
If someone indicates that I should move over for them, I do.
No questions asked, no offense taken.
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GraceSofia
Guest
I interpreted his post to mean the** opposite**, that whether it was a ten-year-old, a teenager, or whomever, he would feel the same.
Perhaps he was** more ** willing to acquiesce to her unreasonable demand because she was an elderly woman than he would have been to one from a young male.
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catharina
Guest
Hmmm. I see your point.
Maybe he’ll address it again.
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NewsTheMan
Guest
Woaaaaah, thread explosion.
Canadian guy seems to be the only one in my defense
thanks!
I don’t know why that other person keeps calling me spineless. No no. I am far from spineless. I am in fact rather the opposite. So possibly, this was a lesson in controlling myself.
There seem to be many different opinions on how to deal. It is interesting.
I must point out that outside of Church had anybody of any age have been so rude to me they would have come off second best. I have trouble controlling myself sometimes, and I think I am finally learning to control the wolf inside me.
To be honest, I was having a bad weekend, and a bad morning (I had found out that my ex was dating someone I knew; not spectacularly bad news but it still hits and hurts) so I was just in shock when I received such hostile treatment in a place where I expect love.
Canadian guy seems to be the only one in my defense
thanks!I don’t know why that other person keeps calling me spineless. No no. I am far from spineless. I am in fact rather the opposite. So possibly, this was a lesson in controlling myself.
There seem to be many different opinions on how to deal. It is interesting.
I must point out that outside of Church had anybody of any age have been so rude to me they would have come off second best. I have trouble controlling myself sometimes, and I think I am finally learning to control the wolf inside me.
To be honest, I was having a bad weekend, and a bad morning (I had found out that my ex was dating someone I knew; not spectacularly bad news but it still hits and hurts) so I was just in shock when I received such hostile treatment in a place where I expect love.
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canadianguy1143
Guest
Growing up when we attended church my Dad always liked having an aisle seat. In order to ensure one, we would always get there earlier and would never have a problem with others with the exception of people who come late for mass.
In speaking with my Dad about this, he said that he considers this incident the work of the devil as the devil wanted to destroy the peace that the OP was enjoying prior to this woman and to discredit Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.
In speaking with my Dad about this, he said that he considers this incident the work of the devil as the devil wanted to destroy the peace that the OP was enjoying prior to this woman and to discredit Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.
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catharina
Guest
Yes - you addressed this aspect of your personality in Post # 1.Woaaaaah, thread explosion.
Canadian guy seems to be the only one in my defense
I don’t know why that other person keeps calling me spineless. No no. I am far from spineless. I am in fact rather the opposite. So possibly, this was a lesson in controlling myself.
There seem to be many different opinions on how to deal. It is interesting.
I must point out that outside of Church had anybody of any age have been so rude to me they would have come off second best. I have trouble controlling myself sometimes, and I think I am finally learning to control the wolf inside me.
To be honest, I was having a bad weekend, and a bad morning (I had found out that my ex was dating someone I knew; not spectacularly bad news but it still hits and hurts) so I was just in shock when I received such hostile treatment in a place where I expect love.
“Now, unfortunately I am an extremely confrontational person, and I stand up to everyone in the face of anything - something I am working on however!”
So, does it seem that you over-reacted?
It seems very likely to me.
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NewsTheMan
Guest
Over-reacted how???
It seems as if a few of you are putting me on trial here in some way.
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Adeodatus
Guest
Oh, I dare indeed. I dare because daring is no sin. I dare because the Good Lord gave me the Five Senses and the Rational Soul. I dare because I possess the faculties of reason and judgment. I dare because with the unmerited graces of faith, hope and love come also prudence, fortitude, justice and temperance. I dare because I possess the glorious Y Chromosome. I dare that I may be a good steward of my cojones. I dare because I’m a man and it’s my responsibility.
What was in that old renegade’s heart? Who knows her reason for acting like a bully and disrupting the Rosary in God’s house? No one but God knows her heart. But that doesn’t mean we can’t call a sin a sin. An umpire needs no knowledge of quantum mechanics to make his call. The ball was clearly in the strike zone. “Strike.”
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canadianguy1143
Guest
Adeodatus, while I may disagree with you that the OP was wrong in not being more forceful, I do say you are correct because you didn’t say she committed MORTAL sin, but just sin (venial). Being rude in a Church in front of the Blessed Sacrament can MOST certainly be a venial sin.
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