Kicked out of my pew!

[catharina]

I don’t know about this post, Catarina, it almost sounds prideful and dictatorial. Kind of like telling the other poster that he’s a sinner and he should be more saintly like you.
And while I believe that in your church all was happiness and light, I don’t think that
it was an especially involved church, because God made a lot of different personalities
and when you get a bunch of people together there’s bound to be altercations.
And the more passion people bring to the table, the better off all of us are. I think that even
Jesus may have said lukewarm people were to be spit out of his mouth.

Think whatever you want, of course.
I’m simply saying I grew to adulthood in the Church in a different time.
I don’t even have to prove it was a better time.

For sure, verbal argumnents did NOT take place
in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament.
Even today, some people understand that.
My own impression is that many understand that.

For those who would rather pursue “arguing in Church,” they’re free to do so.
However they do not have a leg to stand on, in terms of theology.
The presence of the Blessed Sacrament requires us to be reverent.
If some can’t grasp that essential, then much has been lost.

(Believe me, altercations did occur at times in the parish - but NOT in Church.)

 

[stpetric]

How about: “We’ll be finished with the rosary in a few minutes, and we can sort out the seating then”?

There is no really good solution to this situation. She is, it seems to me, pure and simply wrong. She has no claim on that particular seat (especially seeing that there were plenty of others available); and even if she did, it was rude to interrupt your prayers.

OTOH, the cost to you of “turning the other cheek” is really rather small. You were able to move with relatively little inconvenience.

You’re not going to “fix” her rudeness. But you can choose to see this event as an alert for you to be open to the movement of the Spirit, to receive grace of humility, allowing you to bear with charity the minor affronts you receive from others.

I should add that I’m not berating of castigating you here – I’m “preaching” to myself as much as to you, as I’m not particularly good at handling that kind of situation!

Steve

 

[Norseman82]

I’d have told her you get an extra 90 days in Purgatory for disrupting the Rosary.

This is probably the best response I’ve seen.

Anyway, I just do see a trend - not just in this thread, but in general - that any confrontation is considered unChristian. That is far from the truth and only enables wrong behavior. Please also remember that Christ did in fact turn over tables in the Temple.

Whether or not it would be “worth it” in this instance would require a judgement call by the people who are actually there. I guess one could just go back to praying and ignore her if one could.

Praying the Rosary audibly in a group rather than silently might also make the lady more hesitant to interrupt.

As far as assigned setaing, the closest thing I have heard is a tradition “in the old days” that if a family donated a window to the parish (and the donor’s name would be dispalyed), the family would sit in that pew.

 

[texasnan]

Over-reacted how???

It seems as if a few of you are putting me on trial here in some way.

You did say in your original post: “I felt very bad, I felt awful in fact, because instead of just moving up I stood up and said that I was sitting there, when I should have immediately just moved up and saved myself and her the trouble and the unsettling of our spirits before Mass.”

So, how is agreeing with your statement “putting you on trial”? I agree with your original statement entirely. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

 

[catharina]

How about: “We’ll be finished with the rosary in a few minutes, and we can sort out the seating then”?

There is no really good solution to this situation. She is, it seems to me, pure and simply wrong. She has no claim on that particular seat (especially seeing that there were plenty of others available); and even if she did, it was rude to interrupt your prayers.

OTOH, the cost to you of “turning the other cheek” is really rather small. You were able to move with relatively little inconvenience.

You’re not going to “fix” her rudeness. But you can choose to see this event as an alert for you to be open to the movement of the Spirit, to receive grace of humility, allowing you to bear with charity the minor affronts you receive from others.

I should add that I’m not berating of castigating you here – I’m “preaching” to myself as much as to you, as I’m not particularly good at handling that kind of situation!

Steve

Yes - she was “wrong” in the sense of probably a bit crazy.

 

[catharina]

You did say in your original post: “I felt very bad, I felt awful in fact, because instead of just moving up I stood up and said that I was sitting there, when I should have immediately just moved up and saved myself and her the trouble and the unsettling of our spirits before Mass.”

**So, how is agreeing with your statement “putting you on trial”? **I agree with your original statement entirely. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Agreed. Also the greatest flaw (here) is to pursue an argument in Church

 

[PatriceA]

Actually, Catharina, I think that you’ve missed the point Miz was making. She’s saying that such behavior has got to be stopped SOMEWHERE, and since she’s been a mom she’s grown comfortable stopping such behavior. Of course, you’re right that is would be wonderful if everyone were at peace with each other, however, when someone disturbs that peace we definitely need some folks to assume the role of leader, or “Mom” and advise the offender that her behavior won’t be tolerated. Otherwise, as Miz pointed out
we could have total chaos in our churches.
And believe me, Catharina, at Mass, Moms still take pride of place in my heart.
Without the Moms there would be no churches.

Please do not make this about a “mom” knowing best and choosing the way Miz would have handled the situation. THIS mom would have chosen much differently.

 

[catharina]

This is probably the best response I’ve seen.

Anyway, I just do see a trend - not just in this thread, but in general - that any confrontation is considered unChristian. That is far from the truth and only enables wrong behavior. Please also remember that Christ did in fact turn over tables in the Temple.

Whether or not it would be “worth it” in this instance would require a judgement call by the people who are actually there. I guess one could just go back to praying and ignore her if one could.

Praying the Rosary audibly in a group rather than silently might also make the lady more hesitant to interrupt.

As far as assigned setaing, the closest thing I have heard is a tradition “in the old days” that if a family donated a window to the parish (and the donor’s name would be dispalyed), the family would sit in that pew.

Pursuing an argument - about seating - in the presence of the Holy Eucharist
is not an accurate comparison to Our Lord driving the money-changers from the Temple.

If one cares about it, this type of argument can be pursued
outside of the church and after the Mass.

(Really. Seating?)

 

[catharina]

Please do not make this about a “mom” knowing best and choosing the way Miz would have handled the situation. THIS mom would have chosen much differently.

Thank you, Patrice.
Ditto for this mom.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Considering leaving my own thread.

Some are here more for their own agenda and to prove a point and argue rather than anything else.

 

[Norseman82]

Pursuing an argument - about seating - in the presence of the Holy Eucharist
is not an accurate comparison to Our Lord driving the money-changers from the Temple.

If one cares about it, this type of argument can be pursued
outside of the church and after the Mass.

(Really. Seating?)

If you ask me, the lady who interrupted someone praying the Rosary is the one who needs to hear this message…

And it may be more than just seating - it is bullying, and sometimes bullying in small things leads to bullying in bigger things.

What is done is done, though, but I do think that this incident should be brought up to the pastor in case she is causing trouble for others (I think someone did mention this).

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

To the OP, don’t feel bad, dude. At my Anglican parish, about fifteen years ago my mom, dad, and I sat in the front pew. This pew, evidently, was ALWAYS where the Robinsons sat. He came over and literally told us to move and when we said we wouldn’t he TEARED-UP and got emotional. He yelled and ranted and flapped his arms up and down in a chicken-like move of frustration and panic. It was tres bizarre. My parents and I moved more because it creeped us out than anything! LOL

Now he is super friendly to me after all those years. I don’t think he remembers his melt-down. Go figure…

It’s almost like in the Puritan days when you purchased your pew and it had your little name etched in a plate on there, reserved for you. Goofy. The Lord must be shaking his head and shrugging as we act so childish in a place of worship. Crazy, isn’t it!?

 

[canadianguy1143]

Pursuing an argument - about seating - in the presence of the Holy Eucharist
is not an accurate comparison to Our Lord driving the money-changers from the Temple.

If one cares about it, this type of argument can be pursued
outside of the church and after the Mass.

(Really. Seating?)

Offering reasonable alternatives (there are other seats) is hardly an argument but then some people can be so hypersensitive that can’t distinguish the two.

I agree that outside of the church and after Mass is a great place to discuss it in greater detail. Also I agree that the Pastor can asked to help in this matter but the OP didn’t the Priest’s permission to offer alternatives.

 

[catharina]

If you ask me, the lady who interrupted someone praying the Rosary is the one who needs to hear this message…

And it may be more than just seating - it is bullying, and sometimes bullying in small things leads to bullying in bigger things.

What is done is done, though, but I do think that this incident should be brought up to the pastor in case she is causing trouble for others (I think someone did mention this).

She can hear the message outside of the Church.
Really. No problem.
I agree. The priest is in charge. Take it to him.

 

[catharina]

Offering reasonable alternatives (there are other seats) is hardly an argument but then some people can be so hypersensitive that can’t distinguish the two.

I agree that outside of the church and after Mass is a great place to discuss it in greater detail. Also I agree that the Pastor can asked to help in this matter but the OP didn’t the Priest’s permission to offer alternatives.

So - there is not a soul on this thread who can recall the days
of profound silence before the Blessed Sacrament, other than me?

Wow.

 

[Norseman82]

So - there is not a soul on this thread who can recall the days
of profound silence before the Blessed Sacrament, other than me?

Wow.

So if someone starts raping you in the pew would you not scream for help? Or would you let yourself be raped rather than than disturb the silence?

 

[catharina]

So if someone starts raping you in the pew would you not scream for help? Or would you let yourself be raped rather than than disturb the silence?

How utterly vile.

An emergency is an emergency.
Everyone knows that.
It has ALWAYS been the case.

Someone tells you to move?
NOT an emergency.

 

[Samantha79]

I understand that we all have interior reactions to various situations. But let’s let at the big picture here. An elderly woman asked someone to move because she wanted that seat. There aren’t a lot of nice options other than just moving. Somehow I think Jesus would want us to take the nice option (just move) rather than cause a scene in church prior to Mass. If nothing else, its a good opportunity to practice humility…

Am I the only one that doesn’t think being in your “60’s” is old? No matter what kind of day she had or what she has been through, there is no excuse for that kind of behavior…unless she is in the early stages of Alzheimers. Personality change, along with memory loss, are some of the early signs. Perhaps you this could be brought up with the priest…maybe he knows she has some early dementia.

 

[Norseman82]

How utterly vile.

An emergency is an emrgency.
Everyone knows that.
It has ALWAYS been the case.

Someone tells you to move?
NOT an emergency.

Look at it in terms of harassing someone in prayer instead.

 

[cecilia97]

Well! I had a very sad and somewhat bizarre experience today at Mass. Let me explain.

A few of us go to Church 40minutes before Mass starts in order to say the rosary before Mass. There are about 5 of us, and we sit near each other but not exactly right next to each other. Anyway, we were halfway through to rosary, I was kneeling down in the usual place in the same pew I have been sitting in for some months. All of a sudden, I get a tap on my shoulder.

“Move up”, says a lady in her sixties that I did recognize but I hadn’t seen her at Mass in a while.

So I thought to myself oh she obviously wants to get in - and even though this Church sits about 250 people and there are currently 5 people in it now and you can choose anywhere to sit - I move my legs as one does so she can get past and sit next to me or wherever. She then says to me, “No, move”. Now, unfortunately I am an extremely confrontational person, and I stand up to everyone in the face of anything - something I am working on however! Anyway, I stood up and I tried my best, I said, “Sorry, but I am sitting here and there are many other places to sit”. This lady then gave me a stern look, and in her best Headmistress voice said, “My boy, I have been sitting here for years, now move”. I took my stuff, and sat far away. I continued the rosary, but not in peace. I was… I don’t know. I was shocked and sad more than anything. Usually that kind of thing makes me angry, and to be honest, if I wasn’t in Church I would have ignored her and just sat back down in my place. But I moved. I just thought this was unbelievable. I mean… It was actually bizarre. And she did it so rudely and gave me such an evil look. I mean seriously, she could have chosen anywhere along the rest of the pew, and anywhere in the other 80 pews in Church!

What would you have done? I felt very bad, I felt awful in fact, because instead of just moving up I stood up and said that I was sitting there, when I should have immediately just moved up and saved myself and her the trouble and the unsettling of our spirits before Mass. It kinda made me angry though too.

You were as polite as you could be, that is admirable. Her behavior is a little out of the ordinary and, of course, rude. I wonder if she is having a hard time right now, or maybe has a little dementia starting early? She just doesn’t sound 100% normal. That said, we all have our days when we’re “off”.

Pray for her, and that will help any anger towards her subside.