Kids I nanny swear up a storm!

[EasterJoy]

It is better to agree to disagree. I am not being uncharitable. My libertarianism is just showing.

Grown-ups get to be libertarians. Eleven year olds don’t, not unless they have libertarian nannies. It goes back to that “growing up has its advantages” thing.

I do not train adults; it is a thankless and usually a fruitless endeavor. I give instruction to adults who want that, I maintain my own boundaries, but that is a far different business with an adult over whom I have no authority than with a child I’m being paid to care for. Most of the time, if you don’t like the way an adult talks, your option is to learn to live with it or remove yourself to the company of adults who suit you better. Live and let live.

(Oh, and by the way: the Hitler salute is* not *charitable, young man! )

 

[UbiCaritas]

The schools do not bother to tell parents that the teachers won’t tolerate swearing. The OP is only talking about the sorts of standards that every school has. If the kids won’t accept that, they can complain to the parents. I will bet that they don’t. What parent is really going to go to bat for their children’s right to talk as if no one ever taught them any manners? Some, but not many, and the ones who would aren’t parents I’d want to nanny for. The truth is, many parents who “can’t get” their children to behave at home are quite pleased to have someone else come in and be the bad guy.

Teachers do not usually go nuts with the “consequences,” either. Children figure out what the prevailing rules are, and they usually keep a lid on it fairly well. Maybe things slip out, but they say “oops” and at least make an effort. There is no reason to make this a bigger deal than it needs to be unless the children get defiant about it. I kind of doubt that they will, not unless the nanny makes it into a power struggle instead of a coaching situation.

And as I mentioned on another thread recently, poor/uncivilized behavior does have consequences. The kids have a right, legally, to use this kind of language without getting punished by the government. When they’re working in a few years, they also have the legal right to refer to a customer in derogatory/profane terms without getting punished by the government. Their employer, however, also has the right to tell them to get lost for behaving in such a manner, and is quite likely to do so. Customers may be deleted deleted deleted idiots, and in my experience in retail and customer service, often are, but you can’t tell 'em so to their face and stay employed for very long. It’s a lot better to learn as an 11-year-old that it’s a bad idea to tell someone that he’s a descendant of a female dog/engages in anatomically-improbable and sexually-questionable practices than to learn it when one’s job and future are at stake, dealing with a college professor, or speaking to a girlfriend’s dad.

 

[RPRPsych]

They’re 7 and 11? I’d say, “I’m not your parents, I won’t tell you what you can never do. I will tell you that I know you aren’t allowed to talk like that at school. I know this, too: you aren’t allowed to talk like that around me. I know you can control your own mouth if you decide to do it, and it is good practice. You will never meet an adult who uses words like that who won’t tell you it is important to be the master of your own mouth and be able to avoid using that kind of language when you need to.”

If the parents forbid even that much discipline, they can find another nanny. I won’t be treated as if I have no right to my own boundaries…not by a 7 year old, not by an 11 year old, and not by their parents, either. If I’m to have no authority, I won’t take the job. It is not as if parents who want a nanny who’ll enforce such minimal standards are that hard to find.

Great post. While a nanny does not have full parental authority, she must also provide a positive example - which includes reasonable limit-setting - to the children she is looking after.


To treat this as a “freedom of speech” issue is missing the point. Those who think otherwise might want to read what the book of Sirach, St. Paul and the Saints have to say about the use of vulgar language. Frankly, if I’d used such words at 7 (or 11), I’d have gotten whacked.

 

[powerofk]

I agree that you shouldn’t have to hear this language. I would feel very uncomfortable listening to it. However the parents are paying you, so in fairness, BEFORE you begin saying anything to the children you need to say something to the parents. You have to flat out tell them that this kind of language makes you uncomfortable and if the children use it you will tell them to stop it and give a consequence. You have to do this politely and tell the parents you respect they are their children and have the right to raise them however they want, it’s just that the language makes you feel uncomfortable.

I have a feeling this arrangement won’t last long, you won’t be able to discipline where the parents won’t there will ultimately be a conflict here. I would try and find another family but you could try that in the meantime.

Right. It might be best to ask the parents first. Oddly enough, there are some parents who don’t want anyone else to discipline their child, even if the person involved is a nanny/babysitter who they are personally paying or if the person involved is a teacher at school. Now, the courts back up the rights of teachers to discipline children in their classrooms within accepted norms (which are still much more restrictive than the norms allowed for parents disciplining children at home). But for nannies/babysitters, the parents have the final call. So talk with the parents and see. They may allow you free reign - or they may decide that they will only allow you to discipline for things that they would personally discipline the children for - or they may decide that they don’t want you disciplining the children at all (by the way, if it’s this third option, just quit, because the kids will report you to their parents).

Anyway, though - the seven-year-old has probably definitely been conditioned to this language at home. The 11-year-old? Maybe. But he probably talks like this to his friends at school, as well - especially at lunch and either recess or passing periods (depending on whether he’s in 5th or 6th grade). See, a lot of kids his age talk that way when they think adults aren’t paying attention. It’s quite common.

As for bad language: the words that are considered “bad language” are that way due to societal norms. They are considered crude, rude, and socially unacceptable, but there is nothing inherently wrong with the words. Remember, some words that are considered unacceptable in the US are considered fairly acceptable in the UK and vice-versa.

 

[Latinitas]

I would not do anything about it. They have a right to freedom of speech. I would not do anything to curtail it. You can encourage them to use better language, but I do not recommend punishing them if they use bad language. That would be similar to fascism. They are not your kids anyway. Only parents should reprimand kids if they use bad language.

There is no “right” to use foul language, or do anything evil for that matter. It doesn’t matter whether or not one is an adult or a child. Moreover, a nanny is placed in authority by the parents.

Now to the OP. Unfortunately, while it might be tempting to think that these children learned to speak like this at school, it may very well be the case that they speak like this because their parents speak like this in front of them. If that’s the case, you might want to talk to the parents about it, and tell them it disturbs you that the kids are using such language. They might figure out not to use such langauge around them.

Having said all this, “for Christ’s sake”, while not good, is rather mild in comparison to some vulgarities. “Whore” is a little more serious, and should be addressed. You have to pick battles wisely. You would do well to ask your confessor how to handle such a situation.

Another thing I should stress, is, don’t assume its only the males in the household that curse; you’d be surprised how many mothers curse more than their husbands.

I must disagree with those posters who say that you shouldn’t do anything if the parents don’t believe in disciplining the children. It is a great act of charity to correct them for what are faults. Obviously, you have less means of doing so than if you were their parents, but that doesn’t mean that some mild punishment (in the case of the 11 year-old cursing at the video game, telling them to turn it off, for example) is not in order. There is nothing unreasonable in not wanting to hear profanities. It’s true, you’re not their parents, but that doesn’t mean you can’t tell them that it’s wrong.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

 

[Latinitas]

Grown-ups get to be libertarians. Eleven year olds don’t, not unless they have libertarian nannies. It goes back to that “growing up has its advantages” thing.

I do not train adults; it is a thankless and usually a fruitless endeavor. I give instruction to adults who want that, I maintain my own boundaries, but that is a far different business with an adult over whom I have no authority than with a child I’m being paid to care for. Most of the time, if you don’t like the way an adult talks, your option is to learn to live with it or remove yourself to the company of adults who suit you better. Live and let live.

(Oh, and by the way: the Hitler salute is* not *charitable, young man! )

In humble opinion, we ought to stop saying things that imply that once children grow up, they can do whatever they like. That is false. They are not free, for instance, to do what’s wrong simply because no legal authority reprimands them. Instead of saying, “while you live in my house, you follow my rules”, we should say “while you live in God’s earth, you follow His rules”.

Just my two cents.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

 

[mommy_k]

The parents seem to be confused. You don’t want to bring attention to a complusion…such as nail biting , as correction does reinforce complusions.
Bad language is not a complusion.
Since the parents are into pop psychology, ask them if you can squirt them with a water bottle everyone a bad word comes out of their mouth. You can condition it out of them.

This suggestion is just as bad as what the parents are doing.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

I would not do anything about it. They have a right to freedom of speech. I would not do anything to curtail it. You can encourage them to use better language, but I do not recommend punishing them if they use bad language. That would be similar to fascism. They are not your kids anyway. Only parents should reprimand kids if they use bad language.

That’s nonsense. Freedom of speech applies to the government, not nannies. Her job is to protect them. They are children.

You could also argue they have freedom of assembly, but that doesn’t mean they can hang out on Ellam’s bed either.

 

[EasterJoy]

In humble opinion, we ought to stop saying things that imply that once children grow up, they can do whatever they like. That is false. They are not free, for instance, to do what’s wrong simply because no legal authority reprimands them. Instead of saying, “while you live in my house, you follow my rules”, we should say “while you live in God’s earth, you follow His rules”.

Just my two cents.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

I am not saying that anyone is free before God to do whatever they like. It is that my personal authority has a recognized limit. When I correct children in my care, I make it clear why I do not, for example, correct other adults in the same way I correct my own charges. It is not because my rules are arbitrary or only apply to children. It is because my authority has a limit.

If I say, “While you live in God’s earth, you follow his rules,” after all, what will I say when their parents or other adults we meet out in the world transgress the rules in the same way? Will I correct them as a nanny corrects a child? No, that would be out of place. There are rules that apply to nannies, too.

 

[Latinitas]

I am not saying that anyone is free before God to do whatever they like. It is that my personal authority has a recognized limit. When I correct children in my care, I make it clear why I do not, for example, correct other adults in the same way I correct my own charges. It is not because my rules are arbitrary or only apply to children. It is because my authority has a limit.

If I say, “While you live in God’s earth, you follow his rules,” after all, what will I say when their parents or other adults we meet out in the world transgress the rules in the same way? Will I correct them as a nanny corrects a child? No, that would be out of place. There are rules that apply to nannies, too.

I agree. I just wanted to caution against your saying “grown-ups have advantages” which could be taken in the wrong way. I agree otherwise with what you seem to be getting at.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas