Kids not Catholic

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Diedre

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I want to teach my grandkids about the Eucharist and let them take Holy Communion on Easter for the first time. They are 13, 11 and 9. I baptized them when they were babies. Parents are divorced. One parent won’t allow them to be brought up in the church. I will take them to the Parish Penance Service since they won’t have the Sacrament of Reconciliation. What are the repercussions for them and for myself.
 
Diedre said:
I want to teach my grandkids about the Eucharist and let them take Holy Communion on Easter for the first time. They are 13, 11 and 9. I baptized them when they were babies. Parents are divorced. One parent won’t allow them to be brought up in the church. I will take them to the Parish Penance Service since they won’t have the Sacrament of Reconciliation. What are the repercussions for them and for myself.
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Hello,

A lot could be said. Who is aware of the fact that you baptized them? What does the local parish priest say about all of this?

Dan
 
Parish Priest says he won’t baptize them unless mother agrees. Dad wants them to be full Catholics and the kids do too. My son knows I baptized them myself. Don’t even know if this is legit. The kids want to know why they aren’t good enough to receive Communion. I try to explain without blaming the parent who refuses. The kids are observing Lent. I teach them about Catholic Sacraments and traditions.
 
Diedre said:
Parish Priest says he won’t baptize them unless mother agrees. Dad wants them to be full Catholics and the kids do too. My son knows I baptized them myself. Don’t even know if this is legit. The kids want to know why they aren’t good enough to receive Communion. I try to explain without blaming the parent who refuses. The kids are observing Lent. I teach them about Catholic Sacraments and traditions.
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Your baptizing them is, you might say, water under the bridge. What’s done is done. It seems that the first step is to tell the priest that they are already baptized. Then, it is the primary duty of the father to see to their participation in whatever Sacramental programs are in place in that parish. He needs to talk to the priest to see what can be done, given the opposition of the other parent.

You can certainly continue to teach them by word and example.

Dan
 
Diedre said:
I want to teach my grandkids about the Eucharist and let them take Holy Communion on Easter for the first time. They are 13, 11 and 9. I baptized them when they were babies. Parents are divorced. One parent won’t allow them to be brought up in the church. I will take them to the Parish Penance Service since they won’t have the Sacrament of Reconciliation. What are the repercussions for them and for myself.
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Was your baptizing them in an emergency or did you take them to a priest to do so?

Would having baptized them yourself illicitly (if you did it yourself and they were not in danger of death) have even been considered a valid baptism given the expectation they’d be raised Catholic may not even exist?

Being that I’m in a mixed religion marriage myself I’d say you really should keep out of it. Deciding the children’s future religious upbringing is between their parents and their parents alone. You can suggest to your son of course what your hopes would be, and you can be an example of your faith to your grandkids, but frankly it’s up to him and their mother to decide the course of their upbringing as their primary care givers and guardians. Attempting to undermine them by secretly baptizing them into a religion their parents may not decide to raise them in is both wrong and can end up doing more harm than good both with regard to their parents and the grandkids themselves.
 
The children are the responsibility of their parents. Just my view, but I don’t think it’s right to try to force the issue or do things in secret. It’s up to their dad to work this out with their mum, with advice from an understanding priest.

I understand that you have good intentions and want the best for the children, but if I was their mother and a non-Catholic, I’d want my opinions and wishes to be taken as seriously as the dad’s opinions and wishes.

I do realise that the children are expressing a desire to join the Church, and perhaps mum will take that into account before they are much older.
 
Diedre said:
I want to teach my grandkids about the Eucharist and let them take Holy Communion on Easter for the first time. They are 13, 11 and 9. I baptized them when they were babies. Parents are divorced. One parent won’t allow them to be brought up in the church. I will take them to the Parish Penance Service since they won’t have the Sacrament of Reconciliation. What are the repercussions for them and for myself.
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I’m a little confused. Maybe the Catholics here can clarify it for me, but I thought those “parish penance services” didn’t grant absolution, that you still had to have an actual confession with a priest?

Anyway, am I correct in understanding that you want to, rather than going through the parish instruction for sacraments (or even any homeschool program approved by your parish priest), you want to just have the kids “hop in line” and receive without anyone knowing? Isn’t that a little deceptive? The priest is the guardian of the chalice - he is the one responsible for determining who is prepared to receive. Now I know things in your church are a lot more lax than what I experience in Orthodoxy…but I don’t see how anyone could think this is the right way to go - behind everyone’s backs, and against the priest’s instructions? PLEASE discuss this with YOUR confessor.
 
Diedre said:
I want to teach my grandkids about the Eucharist and let them take Holy Communion on Easter for the first time. They are 13, 11 and 9. I baptized them when they were babies. Parents are divorced. One parent won’t allow them to be brought up in the church. I will take them to the Parish Penance Service since they won’t have the Sacrament of Reconciliation. What are the repercussions for them and for myself.
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If you are asking what your obligation is to them, I will have to refer to you to a priest or other qualified spiritual director.

The effect of not raising someone Catholic means it’s harder for them to see the Truth, long story short.
 
Diedre said:
Parish Priest says he won’t baptize them unless mother agrees. Dad wants them to be full Catholics and the kids do too. My son knows I baptized them myself. Don’t even know if this is legit. The kids want to know why they aren’t good enough to receive Communion. I try to explain without blaming the parent who refuses. The kids are observing Lent. I teach them about Catholic Sacraments and traditions.
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What I would do then at this point is ask the priest specifically how you can be a good Catholic influence in their lives.

Eventually, the kids will be making their own decision on religion, and you and their mother would be able to help them see the Truth of Catholicism.
 
KnitNut said:
I’m a little confused. Maybe the Catholics here can clarify it for me, but I thought those “parish penance services” didn’t grant absolution, that you still had to have an actual confession with a priest?

Anyway, am I correct in understanding that you want to, rather than going through the parish instruction for sacraments (or even any homeschool program approved by your parish priest), you want to just have the kids “hop in line” and receive without anyone knowing? Isn’t that a little deceptive? The priest is the guardian of the chalice - he is the one responsible for determining who is prepared to receive. Now I know things in your church are a lot more lax than what I experience in Orthodoxy…but I don’t see how anyone could think this is the right way to go - behind everyone’s backs, and against the priest’s instructions? PLEASE discuss this with YOUR confessor.
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Parish penance services include individual Confession and absolution. General absolution
Should not be done. The services usually include prayer, scripture, an examination of conscience, music,and Confession to a priest.

You are right–people can’t just hop in line and start taking Communiom–they need to be properly instructed to the Pastor’s satisfaction.
 
There are all kinds of problems with this. First we have questionable baptisms since the children as babies were presumably not in danger of immediate death (no, you just can’t baptize them because you want them baptized and the parents wouldn’t do it). Then, the baptisms aren’t recorded anywhere so there is no proof. Next, we don’t know that the children have been properly prepared for either confession or having a good understanding of what the Eucharist is and why everyone can’t just go about and receive (not “take”) communion. The child’s father should be talking to a priest to see how this can be handled. If the mother is the one with custody I could see where it would be a problem. If the priest won’t help the father should ask the archdiocese for help.
 
Certainly I cannot see what’s the issue here if the baptism was carried out in the spirit Jesus intended it to be; nothing but legalism stands in the way of validity. What matters is if they are baptised in the sight of God and in the feelings of your heart. At 16 they can be re-baptised “legally” if they so desire but baptism is not a legal process it is a spiritual act.
 
DaddyGirl said:
Please…don’t take those kids for communion if their mother is against it.
How would you feel if someone tried to teach your kids, when they are minors, about a faith you disagreed with that was not your own…and then took them to a place of worship for that religion against your will and encouraged them to take part in a religious ritual?

.
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I agree. You shouldn’t have gone against the Priest and baptised the children without both parents’ permission. You undermined the mother’s authority, and honestly, I can;t see her ever becoming open to Catholicism now.

Lou
 
Diedre said:
I want to teach my grandkids about the Eucharist and let them take Holy Communion on Easter for the first time. They are 13, 11 and 9. I baptized them when they were babies. Parents are divorced. One parent won’t allow them to be brought up in the church. I will take them to the Parish Penance Service since they won’t have the Sacrament of Reconciliation. What are the repercussions for them and for myself.
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Hello Diedre,
I have just a few comments regarding your situation. First and foremost I realize you must be very anxious for these children to be brought up in the Church. Unfortunately it seems as though you may have not gone about this correctly. The Church typically allows baptisms by anyone in Emergency Situations. The Church is fairly firm in Her belief that children should be presented for baptism only if there is some reasonable assurance they will be raised in the Catholic faith. Otherwise the baptism should be delayed. Additionally I’m not completely understanding why going to a parish communal penance service would make the situation better. Please remember God is a merciful. God and has entrusted the care of his children to the Church. Through His Church God teaches us and directs us on the administration of the Sacraments. You need to trust God in this and in His Mercy. It very likely is not your place to make these decisions, some of which cannot be changed. But you can make a change now. I strongly suggest you take your situation to your parish priest. Explain everything that you have done and be attentive to any feedback the priest may give. Remember our Father is a merciful God who is in charge. Place grandchildren in His hands by seeking guidance from His Church. Its the way all of us are expected to go.

In his Merciful love,

Deacon John
 
This situation where the children may have been baptized against their mother’s will makes me wonder. We know forced baptism of an adult is not valid (as well as being illicit), no? So why would forced baptism of a child against their parents wishes (who speak for the child since they’re not of age to make their own decision on such matters) be considered valid?

I’ve never seen an actual answer to this…
 
Diedre said:
I want to teach my grandkids about the Eucharist and let them take Holy Communion on Easter for the first time. They are 13, 11 and 9. I baptized them when they were babies. Parents are divorced. One parent won’t allow them to be brought up in the church. I will take them to the Parish Penance Service since they won’t have the Sacrament of Reconciliation. What are the repercussions for them and for myself.
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I am curious as to a couple of things. I baptized a child once and it is a bad bad idea. I didn’t know how bad, the child was not related to me but it is a sign of not knowing your faith.
But what I really want to know is this common feeling grandparents have about grand kids. Why is is more important to have them baptized and sacramentally attending the church than your own children with whom you were entrusted to raise in the faith?
This is a common wedge with grandparents who have had their children leave the faith or never be raised properly in the faith.
Why do you think it is your charge to raise these kids Catholic when you have not done so with your own children?🤷

But really, what if the other set of grandparents were wiccan or mormon and decided to do rites to the grand kids according to their own faith without others knowing. Would you like that?
 
Sunbreak said:
There are all kinds of problems with this. First we have questionable baptisms since the children as babies were presumably not in danger of immediate death (no, you just can’t baptize them because you want them baptized and the parents wouldn’t do it). Then, the baptisms aren’t recorded anywhere so there is no proof. Next, we don’t know that the children have been properly prepared for either confession or having a good understanding of what the Eucharist is and why everyone can’t just go about and receive (not “take”) communion. The child’s father should be talking to a priest to see how this can be handled. If the mother is the one with custody I could see where it would be a problem. If the priest won’t help the father should ask the archdiocese for help.
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You have stated this very well.
 
Diedre said:
Parish Priest says he won’t baptize them unless mother agrees. Dad wants them to be full Catholics and the kids do too. My son knows I baptized them myself. Don’t even know if this is legit. The kids want to know why they aren’t good enough to receive Communion. I try to explain without blaming the parent who refuses. The kids are observing Lent. I teach them about Catholic Sacraments and traditions.
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The other side of this is, the kids are 13, 11, and 9. This isn’t a “new thing”, it has obviously been going on for…13, 11, and 9 years respectively (…this strongly suggests that dad maybe wasn’t all into this Catholic stuff until after the divorce, otherwise the baptism thing would’ve been handled 13, 11, and 9 years ago). So there’s a possibility here that there has always been an undercurrent between the mom and the mother-in-law…and that the divorce is allowing the kids to be dumped in the middle of what ought to be a grown-up decision between JUST the legal guardians, mom & dad. If the priest says NO (and he has, apparently) then for the sake of the children’s healthy relationships with everyone, it’s time to stop pushing for sacraments that the priest has rightly refused. The message I’m hearing is, “C’mon, kids, we’ll do this behind mom’s back.”

It seems the priest does not recognize the illegal baptism, therefore the kids have no RC obligation to attend services every week. If they are going, using that as a wedge to make them feel bad is just not a charitable path forward. By all means, teach them about Christianity…but not to the extent that you’re dropping them in direct opposition to their mother. Also, kids are SMART. Don’t think they won’t tell you what you want to hear about your church, and then go home to mom and give her a ‘rundown’ of everything you said and did in opposition to mom’s wishes, and declare their allegiance to her.

Many divorce decrees specify custodial rights including religious education/decision matters. That’s the first proper path forward. It may be possible to mediate some agreement with the custodial parent. (But not if you keep trying to sneak behind her back, and basically brainwash her kids…because that’s the framework in place today, whatever the topic of opposition - religion, education, dating, etc.) The parents could agree to use a family mediator or family counselor to resolve the conflict. And finally, it could go back to court for further orders. There are LOTS of ways to address the conflict that do NOT involve putting the kids in the middle. For the sake of well-adjusted, confident kids, please remove them from the conflict now, and let dad work on the issue without putting the kids in the middle.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I am curious as to a couple of things. I baptized a child once and it is a bad bad idea. I didn’t know how bad, the child was not related to me but it is a sign of not knowing your faith.

But really, what if the other set of grandparents were wiccan or mormon and decided to do rites to the grand kids according to their own faith without others knowing. Would you like that?
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Baptising an infant in danger of death is a good thing though - even if the parents foam at the mouth.

Also, I am not defending illicit baptism, but Catholicism is true and Mormonism and Wicca are false.
 
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