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Hoosier_Daddy
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Church law requires marriage be reserved for boys over the age of 14 and girls over the age of 15. But I think I see your point.
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Hoosier_Daddy
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Yup! You said what I was scared to better than I could have.What you have done is truly reprehensible.
It constitutes a serious abuse of the sacrament of baptism.
It also is to commit repeated acts that are outside of ecclesial communion with those who properly and uniquely have the care of souls and the moderation of the liturgy and of the sacraments: namely the pastor of the parish where the grandchildren are canonically domiciled as well as the bishop of the diocese where that parish is located.
Canon Law properly guides the pastor in the decision that is actually his to make – either to admit a child to the sacraments or to defer the administration of the sacraments. Ecclesial governance is to be respected.
It is only in a situation of danger of death and with the impossibility of getting a sacred minister (bishop, priest, or deacon) that a lay person should proceed to baptise an infant. In such a case, there is a liturgical ceremony that is to be conducted as soon as possible afterward to supply, by a sacred minister, the rites that are missing and to duly record the baptism in the sacramental register.
This sort of baptism is NEVER to be done when the reason is that you do not agree with the decision of the pastor or because of parental opposition.
You would grossly compound the offenses you have already committed by doing what you propose. It is the responsibility of the pastor to determine that a child has been adequately prepared to be admitted to first confession and first Communion.
These children are, in fact, not Catholic and have no business receiving either the sacrament of reconciliation or the sacrament of the Eucharist, least of all by subterfuge.
You have put them into an ecclesiastical no-man’s land by your illicit actions. A determination would have to be made as to whether or not the baptisms were valid. Personally, as a priest, I would conditionally baptise them. They would need to be admitted to the Church by a formal act. They would need to be admitted to a programme to properly prepare them to receive the remaining sacraments of initiation: first reconciliation, first Communion, and Confirmation through their proper canonical parish.
What you are doing is not only grievously injurious to your own soul and destructive to your own relationship to the Church, you are setting up your grandchildren for the eventual discovery that they have no sacramental records – either when they seek confirmation, marriage, or religious profession or holy order – and no affiliation with the Church.
Now…Beyond this canonical quagmire is the actual situation of the parents. All else being equal, and where it truly concerns infants, the consent of one parent is sufficient relative to Canon 868. That presumes, however, that the other parent is not adamantly opposed. Given the presence of a divorce, and above all if there is a court imposed custody arrangement, neither the parish priest (nor the bishop) will act in a manner that contravenes the finding of civil authorities relative to religious accommodation…nor should they; the diocese would risk being justly found in contempt of court.
IF the children wish to be received into the Catholic Church and IF the custodial parent was to consent, that needs to be worked out with the canonical pastor of these children, who needs to be informed of the illicit baptisms as that knowledge will alter the procedure of what the priest would need to do to resolve this most unfortunate situation. If the custodial parent remains opposed, the children will need to wait until they have reached adulthood. There, too, the priest would need to be informed of the illicit baptism.
K
Kevin12
Guest
Alexander III upheld the validity of a girl married at 11 who wanted an annulment. That rule obviously was not always the case, or it could be dispensed. Richard II is supposed to have married Isabella of France when she was seven (though that may just mean they were betrothed at that point).Church law requires marriage be reserved for boys over the age of 14 and girls over the age of 15. But I think I see your point.
D
Don_Ruggero
Guest
As a priest, I feel the need to explain in more detail the answer I gave, if only for the sake of others who may read this thread, and to explain the strong reaction I had. I have no idea if the original poster is even participating in this thread at this point. We can but pray for the affected children.
The Code of Canon Law says the baptism of a child rightly and properly rests with the pastor of the child’s parish. He has the cura animarum, the care of souls, of the parish, under and as a co-worker with the bishop of the diocese.
This is for good reason. It’s because this child should be integrated into the life of the Church in and through that parish.
Most people understand that baptism concerns washing away original sin. That’s true.
It also washes away personal sin but this applies to persons above the age of reason; an infant is incapable of personal sin.
Baptism also infuses sanctifyng grace.
At the moment of baptism, the Holy Spirit begins to indwell in the soul and, as a necessary consequence, the Father and the Son also indwell there since, as we say in theology, an action extra Trinitatem is an action of all Three Divine Persons. (The Trinity is indwelling in the soul.)
The theological virtues (faith, hope & charity) are infused into the soul as are the infused cardinal virtues (justice, prudence, fortitude & temperance).
The one baptised is incorporated into the Church and becomes part of the mystical body of Christ, using the image of St. Paul the Apostle. S/he is a branch grafted onto the Vine who is Christ to use the image of St. John the Apostle.
The baptised becomes a sharer in the three fold of munera of Christ…that is, s/he is made a participant in Christ’s priestly, kingly and prophetic offices.
An ontological character is imprinted on the baptised that can never be effaced – it is an eternal change to the soul that endures beyond death and into eternity.
Baptism is the gateway to the other sacraments; it prepares and disposes one to complete the rites of Christian initiation through Confirmation & Eucharist and take one’s place as part of the Catholic community for whom the Eucharistic celebration is the source and summit of our lives – the consummation of which is Eucharistic Communion. The sacraments of Penance, Marriage, Holy Order & Anointing of the Sick, each in their own way, refer back to & reference Baptism. Even the living of the evangelical counsels as a vowed Religious is a living out of the baptismal covenant.
The accompanying rites surrounding the matter & form of the sacrament of baptism depict these awesome but too often under-appreciated realities…the anointing with the oil of catechumens, the oil of salvation, as well as the sacred chrism. The clothing with the baptismal garment. The giving of the candle that symbolises the Light of Christ which now shines in the soul of the newly baptised. All this is done poor service to, not to say totally obfuscated, when baptism is blithely administered at a kitchen sink or bath tub by the unordained.
Canon Law demands of the pastor that he assess…is there the expectation, the “founded hope,” that the child will be raised in the faith? To confer baptism and set all of these things I have described in place in a soul that will NEVER be brought back to the church, or so rarely as for it to be never, is to bury a seed that has little hope of ever breaking the surface…let alone blossoming and coming to bear fruit in a full life of discipleship & active participation in the Church.
Sharing in the common priesthood of the laity means to pray and to offer sacrifice, to be actively engaged in worship – publicly in the liturgy as well as in private prayer. To share in the prophetic office is to be schooled and then able to prophetically live and proclaim what Christ taught by Word and example: His life and gospel. With no contact with a community, a parish Church, this is not attainable.
The situation worsens. Having gone against the mind of the Church in illicitly giving baptism apart from her ministers, even if validly conferred, the person is not thereby incorporated into the Catholic community even if baptised.
The liturgical life is lived…or not…sporadically if at all. Formation is whatever someone teaches or doesn’t with no ecclesial involvement. Eventually, the child/children are brought to some Catholic Church somewhere and slipped into make confession and slipped into receive Communion – again without undergoing the formation essential to being integrated into the Church’s sacramental life and system. It’s catch as catch can.
Perhaps the person doing this knows they are doing wrong or perhaps not. But the child is going to have, at best, a horribly incomplete, not to say warped, catechesis. They have no basis to know or understand what is missing and that they are not authentically Catholic.
In these years, they may not understand they are living an illicit and shadow existence relative to a Catholic identity. They have no sacramental record, which every baptised Catholic has, in a home parish.
At some point in their lives…if they wish to marry in the Church or be a godparent (which also necessitates & presupposes Confirmation) or become active, they will make the discovery that they have no Catholic existence at all. From the Church’s perspective, it is as if they do not exist. Sadly this happens. Too frequently. Sometimes the responsible adult did not know better. Sometimes it was just a stopgap measure that time took out of hand but then the remedy became impossible.
When a pastor makes a determination that baptism, First Communion or Confirmation needs to be deferred until a situation can be remedied, the best response is to work to remedy the deficient situation. A solution achieved by other means results in sorrowful problems for the priest, for the child affected, and for the parent/grandparent.
The Code of Canon Law says the baptism of a child rightly and properly rests with the pastor of the child’s parish. He has the cura animarum, the care of souls, of the parish, under and as a co-worker with the bishop of the diocese.
This is for good reason. It’s because this child should be integrated into the life of the Church in and through that parish.
Most people understand that baptism concerns washing away original sin. That’s true.
It also washes away personal sin but this applies to persons above the age of reason; an infant is incapable of personal sin.
Baptism also infuses sanctifyng grace.
At the moment of baptism, the Holy Spirit begins to indwell in the soul and, as a necessary consequence, the Father and the Son also indwell there since, as we say in theology, an action extra Trinitatem is an action of all Three Divine Persons. (The Trinity is indwelling in the soul.)
The theological virtues (faith, hope & charity) are infused into the soul as are the infused cardinal virtues (justice, prudence, fortitude & temperance).
The one baptised is incorporated into the Church and becomes part of the mystical body of Christ, using the image of St. Paul the Apostle. S/he is a branch grafted onto the Vine who is Christ to use the image of St. John the Apostle.
The baptised becomes a sharer in the three fold of munera of Christ…that is, s/he is made a participant in Christ’s priestly, kingly and prophetic offices.
An ontological character is imprinted on the baptised that can never be effaced – it is an eternal change to the soul that endures beyond death and into eternity.
Baptism is the gateway to the other sacraments; it prepares and disposes one to complete the rites of Christian initiation through Confirmation & Eucharist and take one’s place as part of the Catholic community for whom the Eucharistic celebration is the source and summit of our lives – the consummation of which is Eucharistic Communion. The sacraments of Penance, Marriage, Holy Order & Anointing of the Sick, each in their own way, refer back to & reference Baptism. Even the living of the evangelical counsels as a vowed Religious is a living out of the baptismal covenant.
The accompanying rites surrounding the matter & form of the sacrament of baptism depict these awesome but too often under-appreciated realities…the anointing with the oil of catechumens, the oil of salvation, as well as the sacred chrism. The clothing with the baptismal garment. The giving of the candle that symbolises the Light of Christ which now shines in the soul of the newly baptised. All this is done poor service to, not to say totally obfuscated, when baptism is blithely administered at a kitchen sink or bath tub by the unordained.
Canon Law demands of the pastor that he assess…is there the expectation, the “founded hope,” that the child will be raised in the faith? To confer baptism and set all of these things I have described in place in a soul that will NEVER be brought back to the church, or so rarely as for it to be never, is to bury a seed that has little hope of ever breaking the surface…let alone blossoming and coming to bear fruit in a full life of discipleship & active participation in the Church.
Sharing in the common priesthood of the laity means to pray and to offer sacrifice, to be actively engaged in worship – publicly in the liturgy as well as in private prayer. To share in the prophetic office is to be schooled and then able to prophetically live and proclaim what Christ taught by Word and example: His life and gospel. With no contact with a community, a parish Church, this is not attainable.
The situation worsens. Having gone against the mind of the Church in illicitly giving baptism apart from her ministers, even if validly conferred, the person is not thereby incorporated into the Catholic community even if baptised.
The liturgical life is lived…or not…sporadically if at all. Formation is whatever someone teaches or doesn’t with no ecclesial involvement. Eventually, the child/children are brought to some Catholic Church somewhere and slipped into make confession and slipped into receive Communion – again without undergoing the formation essential to being integrated into the Church’s sacramental life and system. It’s catch as catch can.
Perhaps the person doing this knows they are doing wrong or perhaps not. But the child is going to have, at best, a horribly incomplete, not to say warped, catechesis. They have no basis to know or understand what is missing and that they are not authentically Catholic.
In these years, they may not understand they are living an illicit and shadow existence relative to a Catholic identity. They have no sacramental record, which every baptised Catholic has, in a home parish.
At some point in their lives…if they wish to marry in the Church or be a godparent (which also necessitates & presupposes Confirmation) or become active, they will make the discovery that they have no Catholic existence at all. From the Church’s perspective, it is as if they do not exist. Sadly this happens. Too frequently. Sometimes the responsible adult did not know better. Sometimes it was just a stopgap measure that time took out of hand but then the remedy became impossible.
When a pastor makes a determination that baptism, First Communion or Confirmation needs to be deferred until a situation can be remedied, the best response is to work to remedy the deficient situation. A solution achieved by other means results in sorrowful problems for the priest, for the child affected, and for the parent/grandparent.
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