Killing for good?

[bibleguy180]

I have a lot of faith in god. If he says he wants me to do something, I’ll do it. I really don’t care about a defense in court. I’m more interested in pleasing god and going to heaven.

Well luckily, He would not ask you do do that since the 5th commandment is “Thou shalt not kill” and He wouldn’t contradict Himself

 

[e46m3]

Well luckily, He would not ask you do do that since the 5th commandment is “Thou shalt not kill” and He wouldn’t contradict Himself

what about the old testament when he says you should stone certain people?

 

[TheQuestioner]

what about the old testament when he says you should stone certain people?

That’s the old law, the law of Moses. Christians are not subject to it, but are told to be as charitable as possible while we chastise sinners.

 

[rossum]

This is a very good example of why I am scared to death of religious people.

To paraphrase: It is easy to get bad people to do bad things. It is easy to get good people to do good things. But in order to get good people to do bad things you need religion.

Or the short version: “Kill a Commie for Christ.”

rossum

 

[rossum]

I was wondering if it is acceptable to kill certain people. People like child molesters, cerial rapest, abortion doctors, murderers, etc. I am not considering doing this, just so you know.

What part of “You shall not kill,” do you have a problem with?

rossum

 

[DexUK]

It is not acceptable to take the law into one’s own hands in order to carry out a homicide, unless you are in imminent danger of being killed yourself or to protect someone else from being killed. The Church accepts that, while definitely not desirable, deadly force is sometimes the only option in emergency situations, but it does not accept it generally.

Now there IS a philosophical argument about how far to take that. Does it only apply to ‘heat of the moment’ situations? Could it be stretched to encompass abortionists who are literally just about to wield the knife (or other surgical instrument)? Are we entitled or obligated to step in to protect a life where we are not wanted? (I.e. the mother of the about-to-be aborted baby wilfully rejecting intervention, a person who is committing suicide or euthanasia in a state/country where such things are legal, etc). Or are we only obliged to render assistance to those who request it? And that begs the question, would an aborted baby have wished us to protect it? Can we know? Can we assume knowledge? Can we take the decision ourselves?

These are the questions that need the wisdom of Solomon and I certainly won’t say that it’s acceptable to go around storming abortion clinics and murdering the people inside them, even if, in my heart of hearts, I am screaming to God that it should be prevented. Does that diminish me in any way, by not ‘taking up arms’?

In most cases, we have to rely on prudential judgement. We have to weigh our own safety with that of the person being attacked. For less immediately mortal crimes, we have to consider what punishment fits the crime.

I don’t believe that any killing can be good, but some can be necessary (a ‘just war’ situation, for example). However, if there is even the slightest alternative to killing, it should be that alternative which we choose first. We must always run the ‘extra mile’ in order to prevent death.

Those guilty of a crime should be given every opportunity to repent. Capital punishment takes away the time which a guilty person can use to consider their crimes. It can mean that a guilty person might go to their deaths unrepentant. It is incumbent upon us as Christians to do everything that we can to help our fellow men to find their way into eternal life. When we take a life as a punishment, we fail because we are usurping God’s prerogative and we risk sending a soul to Hell because that person may not have acknowledged God or turned back to Him.

Taking a life as a punishment or because it’s expedient is simply too much of a risk to take with people’s souls.

 

[e46m3]

It is not acceptable to take the law into one’s own hands in order to carry out a homicide, unless you are in imminent danger of being killed yourself or to protect someone else from being killed. The Church accepts that, while definitely not desirable, deadly force is sometimes the only option in emergency situations, but it does not accept it generally.

Now there IS a philosophical argument about how far to take that. Does it only apply to ‘heat of the moment’ situations? Could it be stretched to encompass abortionists who are literally just about to wield the knife (or other surgical instrument)? Are we entitled or obligated to step in to protect a life where we are not wanted? (I.e. the mother of the about-to-be aborted baby wilfully rejecting intervention, a person who is committing suicide or euthanasia in a state/country where such things are legal, etc). Or are we only obliged to render assistance to those who request it? And that begs the question, would an aborted baby have wished us to protect it? Can we know? Can we assume knowledge? Can we take the decision ourselves?

These are the questions that need the wisdom of Solomon and I certainly won’t say that it’s acceptable to go around storming abortion clinics and murdering the people inside them, even if, in my heart of hearts, I am screaming to God that it should be prevented. Does that diminish me in any way, by not ‘taking up arms’?

In most cases, we have to rely on prudential judgement. We have to weigh our own safety with that of the person being attacked. For less immediately mortal crimes, we have to consider what punishment fits the crime.

I don’t believe that any killing can be good, but some can be necessary (a ‘just war’ situation, for example). However, if there is even the slightest alternative to killing, it should be that alternative which we choose first. We must always run the ‘extra mile’ in order to prevent death.

Those guilty of a crime should be given every opportunity to repent. Capital punishment takes away the time which a guilty person can use to consider their crimes. It can mean that a guilty person might go to their deaths unrepentant. It is incumbent upon us as Christians to do everything that we can to help our fellow men to find their way into eternal life. When we take a life as a punishment, we fail because we are usurping God’s prerogative and we risk sending a soul to Hell because that person may not have acknowledged God or turned back to Him.

Taking a life as a punishment or because it’s expedient is simply too much of a risk to take with people’s souls.

thank you. I think that’s what I was looking for.

 

[e46m3]

That’s the old law, the law of Moses. Christians are not subject to it, but are told to be as charitable as possible while we chastise sinners.

I am very aware that it is old law, however the people of the old testament, after moses of course, followed both those laws and the ten commandments.

 

[e46m3]

What part of “You shall not kill,” do you have a problem with?

rossum

I have never said I have a problem with it.

 

[JackVk]

It’s like that movie The Boondock Saints. It’s a good message, that “do not kill, do not rape do not steal. These are principles which evey man of every faith can embrace”. However, I would never kill someone because I thought he was evil.

Now, HYPOTHETICALLY, if God did tell me to kill someone, I would. But as far as I know, God would never tell me to do that.

 

[StrawberryJam]

To paraphrase: It is easy to get bad people to do bad things. It is easy to get good people to do good things. But in order to get good people to do bad things you need religion.

Or the short version: “Kill a Commie for Christ.”

rossum

Like that.
I would slightly alter it a bit, to say

It is easy to get misguided or misdirected ones to do bad things. It is not our job to judge how or why they did so, as we may have personally contributed to their confusion in our very actions or lack of.
In the end, I agree with the premise of the statement. There is no better recipie for ill towards others than what you mentioned. I can not think of anything else that allows for it.

 

[TheQuestioner]

Like that.
I would slightly alter it a bit, to say

It is easy to get misguided or misdirected ones to do bad things. It is not our job to judge how or why they did so, as we may have personally contributed to their confusion in our very actions or lack of.
In the end, I agree with the premise of the statement. There is no better recipie for ill towards others than what you mentioned. I can not think of anything else that allows for it.

Really? Not money? Not women or men? Not desperation? Not ultra-nationalism? Not drugs? Not racism? Not poverty? Just religion and religion only?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Really? Not money? Not women or men? Not desperation? Not ultra-nationalism? Not drugs? Not racism? Not poverty? Just religion and religion only?

You misunderstand me. The poor will always be with you, as Jesus said.
Religion instructs but, does not always properly inform.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

No, not morally. The law exists for a reason. Let the law handle the child molesters, rapists and murders. If you have any information contact the police.

This type of reasoning can be flawed. For all you know, the fact that top-class, high-paid lawyers can pretty much bail you out of everything might be true. What good is the law then?

And the police? Yeah, like they’re immune to corruption and bribery.

 

[JackVk]

This type of reasoning can be flawed. For all you know, the fact that top-class, high-paid lawyers can pretty much bail you out of everything might be true. What good is the law then?

And the police? Yeah, like they’re immune to corruption and bribery.

Aye.

 

[budgie2]

I was wondering if it is acceptable to kill certain people. People like child molesters, cerial rapest, abortion doctors, murderers, etc. I am not considering doing this, just so you know.

No it’s not acceptable. God can take their life when it is his will to do so. They are alive so that they have time to repent. God decides on the moment of everybody’s death. You should pray for their conversion. Everybody’s alive by the will of God.

 

[StrawberryJam]

This type of reasoning can be flawed. For all you know, the fact that top-class, high-paid lawyers can pretty much bail you out of everything might be true. What good is the law then?

And the police? Yeah, like they’re immune to corruption and bribery.

Let’s not confuse people with the terminology. Lawyers do not bail anyone out of anything.
Lawyers do not have that power.
The police, do not deserve your instant dismissal of their duties or integrity for the very few that disregard their duties.
If your argument was true, then all the arguments of your church fall apart.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Let’s not confuse people with the terminology. Lawyers do not bail anyone out of anything.
Lawyers do not have that power.

That’s why I said the reasoning can be flawed. I didn’t outright dismiss it as flawed. Now as to the lawyers, I’m obviously referring to idea that get a good enough lawyer, you can defend yourself from a lot of charges. I’m basically pointing out how they can twist the law in favor of the lawless.

The police, do not deserve your instant dismissal of their duties or integrity for the very few that disregard their duties.

Few? Apparently, the difference in our countries is quite clear.

 

[StrawberryJam]

That’s why I said the reasoning can be flawed. I didn’t outright dismiss it as flawed. Now as to the lawyers, I’m obviously referring to idea that get a good enough lawyer, you can defend yourself from a lot of charges. I’m basically pointing out how they can twist the law in favor of the lawless.

Few? Apparently, the difference in our countries is quite clear.

I do not know nor commented about the way things are in your country.
While realizing ours is not perfect, I commented as a US citizen. I do apologize for any confusion I did not intend to make.
I am sorry it is the way you describe it to be in yours.

 

[presidentjlh]

Commandment numero cinco: Thou shalt not kill.

Of course, there are legitimate situations where one may have to kill another person: War (if it is a “just” war), Self-defense or defense of another person, or executions (only for inmates who endanger society even while imprisoned)